What do you think or would like to learn about them?
What do you think or would like to learn about them?
Hamlet, The Mentor
HAMLET, the Prince of Danemark - the hero of W.Shakespeare's tragedy.
1. To be or not to be? A serious person focused on global problems. Sees the world in dramatic, even tragic colors. Expects all kinds of trouble. Beethoven’s four notes – the theme of fate – sound like the theme of his life. He takes personal problems and addresses them on a global scale. Meanwhile he often also strives to give something back to mankind.
2. Romantic. Tends to permanent doubts and wavering. Sometimes seems to people around him to be an irritable, easily excitable individual. For example any unnecessary movements put him off, because the world as it is already seems to him too dynamic. Does not like to take initiative. He values feelings above cold-minded analysis.
3. Strategist. Knows how to time his efforts. Bravely enters a situation once he had carefully studied it and prepared everything ahead of time. He waits for the right time to make a move, makes arrangements for any possible turn of events, anticipates and plans against any problems, and then acts assertively, without taking a chance. He does not take his job lightly, feels responsible to complete the project he undertakes. Struggles for victory at any cost – it is easier for him to suffer defeat than settle for a compromise. In emergency situations his redundant caution disappears without any trace.
4. Good vs. evil. He never does things he considers as evil, and is very intolerable to evil in others. However, his ethical theory is based on his own principles, without consideration for customs and authority. Sometimes his views on problems of good and evil are very original. In any case he consequently acts on them and insistently defends them.
5. Attentive to people. He is sometimes even imposing and demanding, sympathizes with them, tries to rescue them during hard times. It is not so easy to get along with him, since he is not lighthearted in his attitude towards life. More likely he is a good family man/woman. He expresses his feelings for his partner not so much through material care, as with dramatic narratives and warnings against possible dangers. The latter quality is quite important for his dual (The Inspector) who is not very capable of forecasting future events. You may call him late at night; to your question "Did I wake you up?" he will reply cheerfully "You did!" (The Humanist, who also tends to empathize, will nevertheless reply "Not at all" in a tone of voice that will make you feel ashamed).
6. Unaesthetic in routine. He does not like to take care of routine chores in presence of others as a rule, in general unable to work while being watched. If he can, he will send everyone away to run an errand. He is very fearful that his movements would seem clumsy, unaesthetic.
7. "Proud". He has a characteristic seemingly arrogant way of carrying himself. People may get an impression that he is acting, beefing up his own importance. He is a good leader.
Your dual (psychologically complementary type): Maxim Gorky (The Inspector) (logical-sensory introvert).
ENFJs often have slim arms, legs and torso. They look rather slow and relaxed, especially among friends. However, there are ENFJs that are very nimble but they tend to suffer from a lack of co-ordination, giving the impression that they do it deliberately. ENFJs often have big, straight, sharp noses. Their eyes usually have a melancholy look about them and at the same time have that obsessed shine that shows a great emotional charge.
ENFJs usually hold their heads up straight, often giving the impression that they are looking above the heads of others. This can lead others to believe that ENFJs are arrogant people. ENFJs clothes are usually badly matched. There is often one particular detail that catches the eye and is completely out of place with the rest. They are well aware of this and therefore pay close attention to their wardrobe and are suspicious of any outside evaluation.
ENFJs enjoy the company of people who give off plenty of positive emotions. They like and in fact need to laugh in order to discharge the emotional energy that accumulates within. Their own emotions are of a dramatic nature, which they try hard to control. Sometimes, however, ENFJs can unexpectedly explode attracting unwanted attention to themselves.
ENFJs always warn others about impending trouble. They often dramatise reality a little too much as they seem to see the world in shades of grey. When interacting, they are sometimes parasitic and intrusive with their opinions and comments. ENFJs often express their true opinions during conversation as they find it difficult to keep them to themselves. They will often talk to themselves even if there are many people around.
ENFJs posses the ability to be great orators as they know how to paint speeches in many colours and how to keep the attention of the listener. Besides containing dramatic emotions, their speeches often contain sharp sarcasm and powerful bitterness. ENFJs know well how to combine humour with tragedy. As a result their narratives are always breathtaking.
ENFJs are inclined to trust only official published information. However they like gossip and discussing the details of peoples private lives, especially famous people, movie stars etc. ENFJs like to fantasise, often developing the same subject over a period of time. They also have the ability to persuade others that their opinions are right. Their completed projects are global in comparison to what they were when they were began. They have also tendency to create problems where there are not any and moreover to convince others of it.
ENFJs respect hierarchy and relate to people accordingly. If a person is in a lower position, their interaction can be cold and disrespectful. However, their behaviour towards someone in a higher position than themselves will be tactful and humble. They believe in the concept of leadership and leaders. ENFJs also have tendency to behave aristocratically. They can give the impression that they are from noble families. At the same time they are very polite and correct.
ENFJs do not like to work if someone is there, observing them. They really do not like others to see how they manage their homes and day to day matters. Because of this they often send other people on missions with various instructions in order to get rid of them so they can work comfortably.
ENFJs have no problems undertaking very difficult tasks and projects or working long unsociable hours. ENFJs strongly believe that human potential is unlimited. They often believe in a wide range of mystical phenomena, religion, the evil-eye and omens. They like to spend some time alone in order to contemplate life and the role of humans. "To be or not to be" is a question that ENFJs may ask themselves regularly.
Easily excitable, abrupt. Shows nerve-strain, is resolute and artistic. Easily gives in to exaltation, is remarcable for aristocratic manners. He is usually a good orator, a political leader with patriotic deviation. He is internally dramatic and spontaneous, likes make a demonstration of himself. He may shock his associates with extremes in his clothes - a vagabond with greased sleeves or, on the contrary, may dress brightly or aristocratic and refined.
He is predisposed to reflection, internal fluctuations and doubts. Thinks figuratively, is philosophically inclined. He isn’t so critical to his appearance and food he eats. Reserved, vulnerable, may be even broken, expresses himself softly-softly, he is responsible and punctual. He is a good tutor and teacher, may carry away his students. He is quiet, consecutive in statement of a material.
These subtype descriptions by Valentina Meged - Psychologist (intuitive-ethical extrovert) ENFP and Anatoly Ovcharov - Craftsman (sensory-logical introvert) ISTP, can be confusing and opinions on them are divided but nonetheless they should be worth looking at, in my opinion they can be of some use in typing.
This description was from www.socionics.org
Sotsionicheskaya newspaper: № 01 (01), 22.11.2002
Note of editorial staff.
Attention! Until now in sotsionike there is a large problem because the authors of the different theories of subtypes so did not agree about the general terminology. There exists as the minimum of 3 theories of 32 subtypes (authors of present article, V.V.Gulenko and Ye.S.Filatovoy). In each of these theories the type is divided into two subtypes, as the authors consider, with the "intensive" first or second function (i.e. for example logico- intuitive introvert it can be "logical" or "intuitive" subtype). Problem in the fact that each divides type in in own way own way, and here terms are used the same. We request to consider this with reading of article.
We focus attention on the fact that also the pseudonyms of types all the more subtypes, used in this article, they are not in sotsionike conventional.
Ethics- intuitive ekstravert: TEACHER, ENFJ
This is the most contradictory and most varied type of personality both internally and outwardly.
Most frequently variable, but not running, but a somewhat scattered view of eye they are expressive in Eie: they transfer first internal emotional incandescence, then is melancholy. Usually these emotions are not so much caused by real state of affairs, as they speak about the increased sensitiveness Eie.
Mimicry is also very diverse, obedient situation and that role, which is diverted Eie in this situation. This tuning of emotions occurs naturally and not always prednamerenno. Some representatives of this type have alarming, nervous smile, but majority smile rarely, preferring to preserve the serious expression of face.
The gait Eie, as a rule, elegant, clear, smooth, although a certain fixedness of motions is noticeable. Manners and poses are frequently they are spectacular, aristokratichny, and the gestures of produmanny, but regardless of the fact, they are modest or izyskanny, by them frequently does not be sufficient naturalness.
Ethical subtype tries to behave according to the rules of a good tone. This is - internally emotional, but usually modest and restrained in the expression of his feelings person. It is touchy even we wound, in the soul it frequently survives dramatic emotions, but with the strangers it is held in control and does not give to them will. To it it is difficult properly to be weakened, it is internally stressed, we wound and it is sufficiently proud. It has many complexes, from which it frequently suffers, but in this case outwardly it is proud and inaccessible. It is usually reserved, careful, it thinks over everything in advance. Are somewhat acted unsure of itself, but it is patient and persistent, it knows how to attain its purposes. It is very exacting to that so that the surrounding soblyudali ethical standards of behavior, and frequently it cannot be held from the observations and the councils, if it sees that people enter, from its point of view, it is incorrect. The rapid change of mood is characteristic of it. First is cold- haughty, obstinate and demanding, then soft, sincere, courteous and even defenseless. Motions smooth, are sometimes emphasized demonstrative. It dresses modestly, also, with the taste, and if it wants, it can appear very effectively.
Intuitive subtype - original creative personality, extravagant and not predicted. It is very inquisitive and talkative. It is sufficiently emotional, we wound vpechatlitelen. It is internally stressed, frequent doubts and fluctuations are experienced, because of what it is sufficiently variable in its solutions. It occurs quick tempered and cuttings. Very artistichen, is emotional raskreposhchen, easily and freely are expressed its feelings. The mood of others feels well and it skillfully it governs. He speaks with a feeling and enthusiasm, even with the enthusiasm. It is very ironic, critical, it is sometimes caustic and haughty. In a good mood it can become the center of attention to any company. It is sufficiently practical, although to it confidence does not be sufficient in itself. The impression of business, active and sociable person is produced. It dresses sometimes uncommonly and extravagantly, and sometimes simply it is modest. The motions are irregular, are impulsive, but not flattened, but stopped up.
My mom's best friend is ENFJ and I think the she is the intuitive subtype. Shes really dominating and bossy to anyone around her, really critical too. Shes really outgoing and effusive, almost like an explosion, yet shes really deliberate and self controlled at the same time. Shes has good aesthetic taste and she dresses really extravagantly and lavishly, and shes obsessed with social status and the upper class, always talking about people of a "good background" and daydreaming about people who live in castles. Shes talks constantly and very loudly. Shes insanely enthousiastic about any new project. Yet shes pessimistic too, making a huge deal out of everything, thinking that there is problem even when there isnt, causing others to panick which is one thing that annoys me about her. My ISTJ mom, says "everything is so extreme about her, and thats what I love". They get along really well.
I used to play in a band with a woman like that.
My ENFj friend throughout my entire school life always seemed to need to control someone or something. And who better to control than your Supervisee? People would often tell me to not let him push me around, but being ultra-passive, I often didn't mind it--up to a point. Over the years, I've gradually lost contact with him, and even though he wants to start this friendship again, I can't go back. He would actually blame my INFj friend for "stealing his friend from him." But now that school's out forever, nothing really matters anymore.
But there are some good points about this ENFj. He was always the center of attention, and he was an eccentric individualist with a good sense of humor. Everybody liked the guy, although you couldn't convince him of that. He did have some very strange interests, though, which did invite some harsh attacks from various people.
I could hear "to be or not to be" spoken by his inner voice quite often.
Your INTp friend,
Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)
Is being domineering a typical trait of ENFJs?
The first known application of Te Socionics:Originally Posted by Cheerio
"FeNi- = uncertain outside force -> less knowledge of the future
Here, realization that there are outside forces that are unknowledgeable increases understanding that the future can not be known, thus creating a need to be prepared for many things."
So how exactly would an ENFj prepare for the "mysterious" future? Over-achieving, over-preparing, and depending on others' capabilities to get the job done. If you have a capable person around, you can finally relax and not worry so much. But wait! What if this person decides he doesn't want you anymore? He could leave at any time! What will you do then? In order to prevent that from happening, you need to control every aspect of him. Force him to stay with you. Force him to like you. And what better way to make him like you than to impress him with your quirky attitude and good sense of humor? Of course, the hand of control can overextend its bounds. So, yes, being domineering is a typical trait of ENFjs.
And is it any surprise that an ENFj's dual is ISTj?
Your INTp friend,
Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)
I think ENFJs need someone who makes them feel grounded in reality. Who better than the ISTJ, really?
In the earlier post the subtypes were switched, so I corrected it.Originally Posted by Curious
Im very much the Intuitive subtype. Im reserved for an extrovert and Ni tests extremely strong on the individual function test for me.
For fun-- Ive seen many people online make a lot of ENFJ sterotypes. Ive seen hippies, politicians, librarians, corporate climbers, drama queens, manipulators...etc...etc...etc. I really dont understand the angst. Im sure there are shitty enfjs and good enfjs. Actually I do understand. We seem to express negative over positve more often. Oh well. Another issue is that male and female ENFJs seem to be very different. Perhaps female ENFJs are more prone to skill abuse due to the social acceptance of F. I dont know. Males are more likely to repress this for sure. I do have to make a common belief correction. ENFJs are controlling--not manipulative. Control is at their core.
Don't worry ISTps had to go through the same shit. The NTs and NFps thought no other types would come along, but we did…For fun-- Ive seen many people online make a lot of ENFJ sterotypes. Ive seen hippies, politicians, librarians, corporate climbers, drama queens, manipulators...etc...etc...etc. I really dont understand the angst.
Jadae, both my Mom and my Guidance Conselor are ENFJs. I wouldn't say you are "manipulative". The better way I can descibe it is that ENFJs seem to exaggerate. I've seen my Mom do this, and when I point it out to her she admits, "I know, I exaggerate sometimes", not realizing that it's a bad thing. Sometimes they also exaggerate their own feelings and state of being (attention, maybe). And if it makes you feel better, I find the intuitive subtypes slightley less annoying.
MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!
Originally Posted by vague
Ah yes. Thats the hyperethical side. Its a very strange side. It goes off unannounced (quite rude of it imo!). Okay so Fe is very much about control. This coupled with Ni gives ENFJs an asset in predicting those they know. With this they can choose to aid or harm (hopefully the former). This is what Im taling about. Im not sure how this side of ENFPs works but Id say theyre more on the manipulative side (went out with 3 in a row...dont ask). I think these two sides of them form distrust. Im pretty sure someone could explain it with the cute little Quasi-ID symbols lol.
I prefer the intuitive side better as well (obviously! lol). I havent been accused of being annoying since like age 9-12. I think the only thing those I know would say is annoying is excessive worry. The Si/Te (I'll use that so we dont argue MBTI/Socionics) I know only complains about two things from me. 1. I dont give very good detail of my days and skim over that as fast as possible which makes her feel suspicious of me (which is kinda funny lol) 2. I jump subjects too much. She did say I was the best listener she knows a few weeks ago tho so that was a plus Im fairly sure that not all E's are annoying just as Im fairly sure that not all I's are recluses. Too much E or I... that'd be a nightmare
I just remembered a nother stereotype. "ENFJs hate tattoos." That one was such bull lol. It was from an ENFJ list. I mean.. I even have one (granted it was a remembrance tattoo due to a death). Ive actually looked into this one. It seems more people than I thought valued tattoos way less than I do. I usually take an active interest in other people's tattoos. They all have stories attached to them afterall. A tattoo with no point is kinda lame tho-- I draw the line there.
I have no clue. I cant think of any reason any particular function would be attracted to it. I think it may be entirely social. My only issue with tattoos was placing it where I could hide it so it didnt hinder my ability to be hired with ease.
I definitely thought of that. That's why it was personal and not impulsive. Actually, I got mine with a friend, too, which makes it all that more memorable. He tests as a Ti/Ne. it's just colored skin afterall. If you want to go with the "non-labeling by society" thing you can think of it as oneself doing the labeling. In a way it is a bit liberating in the "This is my body and I will do with it what I want" sort of way.
I wanted to get a Star of Life (EMS symbol) tatoo. But I just can't bring myself to spend the money on something that is (to me) so frivolous.
Funny, I'm philosophically opposed to make-up and piercings, but not tatoos.
*tiptoes out of Beta territory*
TiNe, LII, INTj, etc.
"I feel like I should be making a sarcastic comment right now, but you're just so cute!" - Shego, Kim Possible
I could think of a ton of reasons.Originally Posted by Steve
A symbolic path
--or breaking of the above into a different mold.
Face metal is a bit beyond me tho but Ive got some cool convos out of those that have lol.
I think the underlying principle here is symbolic interactionism. I think this will go on forever in some form or another. I think the repression of such is equally symbolic. However, it wouldnt shock me for NTs to not participate in any noteable scale since tradition isnt their favorite thing.
how do I express negative emotions about this?Originally Posted by Cheerio
fi, english sucks
You're giving me the willies.Originally Posted by Steve
My daughter wears a small silver ball in the side of her nose that she's had pierced since she was 11. She looks great with it and it is so much a part of her. Somehow I can't see her without it. She did have her eyebrow pierced but I was so glad that one got infected and she couldn't wear one anymore . . . no scar, thank goodness. She wants her tongue done and a boob job but that will be when she is 18, on her own, and not being paid for with my money. I don't understand defacing your body especially with tatoos. All I can think about is being an old man or woman with tatoos. Gross me out! Yuck.
I really think it is because I am constantly evolving and changing . . . I wouldn't want permanent reminders of my wild side or a particular phase I was going through. Always a fresh start.
<--- Me pouring out all my love on you!
Some days its just not worth chewing through the restraints.
I'm thinking about dating an ENFj, she is one of those really cool ones too
I just want to know if there is anything about ENFj's (in general) that is bad or annoying that I am just not seeing right now, thanks in advance
btw: what happened to Jadae?
I know two ENFjs pretty well and I get along fine with them -- but then, we're look-a-likes.
I wouldn't necessarily call it "bad" or "annoying", it depends on the situation -- but ENFjs have the salesperson/politician charateristic of reading your emotions and reacting accordingly, while (if they so choose) revealing little of their own emotions - they are master emotional manipulators (not necessarily in a bad way).
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
My teacher told me this week that I (as an ENFJ) am a poor listener, cuz I jump from subject to subject and do not show clearly that I understand the things she says. Even more annoying: she that the image I show to people is different from who I really am. So she thinks I act!! AND I AM JUST ME. Anyone knows where this behaviour can come from? I get a bit confused about all this feedback....
Tell her to do her job and get off of your back. Be who you want to be. Thats over the line if you ask me. Be respectful though.Originally Posted by Wanderer
Enfjs are funny creatures. Ive known quite a few. They come in many varieties too. Most have sort of a high faluting sort of aristocratic bearing that says they are special. They love drama and laughter but they are not always that funny themselves. The ones I know just love me to pieces... as long as I do everything they say Since I dont always do that there is the fun and the drama that comes. They are usually very adventurous as far as culture goes. They love exotic restaurants and like to go to cultural events. Thats why I like them. If I want to see something cultural or different I usually end up calling or waiting for a call from one of my enfj friends. They will follow through with reservations and tickects and stuff that I HATE to do Enfjs are great to run to for sympathy and help. Sometimes they are too controling and I dont like to tell them too much cause they will run with it. Enfps are actually better in some ways at reading people and manipulating situations. Why? because enfjs make up their minds fairly quickly but enfps feel their way through a situation and have less quarrels with people.
Enfjs like to have a close circle of friends that they rule over in a benevolent way. If you go to their parties you will see some of the same faces over and over, with a sprinkling of some new faces they are trying out for size.
With some enfjs I fall into the deepest conversations (to the exclusion of everyone else in the room ) We find each others thoughts quite amuzing and interesting. The problem comes when you try to accomplish things together. It can go smooth if you let the enfj control. If you dont then thats going to be a problem. They can be quite dramatic when things dont go the way they feel its supposed to go. They know how to transfer a sense of shame on to others as well. But for the most part they are easy going.
Im not attracted to enfjs romanticly but I think they make great friends. The guys and the girls. The enfj is about BIGness. There is something big lush and overgrown about them. In comparison to enfps, enfjs belong solidly in the world of activity and business and enfps are quirky, somewhat unimportant to the big world, lost in their own idyocincratic way of life. And for some reason the enfjs admire this... to a point. IMHO
The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.
It's pretty recoginzable what you describe about ENFJ's Topaz . I can be dramatic if I lose control of things. Sometimes even manipulative. One of my best friends is a ENFP. We understand each other much, and like to do things like cabaret, movies, special events, discussing about politics or worldly things. We like also to go out. He is more a 'womanizer'. He looks constantly for opportunities to date new women. I find this funny, cuz I have this less.
About my teacher: I think strongly she is a ENTP--> inventive, selling, looking constantly for options to use, sometimes act like a kameleon to hae succes. The problem is that she has to give me a grade in a few months, so I am dependable of her. She is 'selling' me my weak points and tries to shake me up to let me grow. Sometimes playing the Devil's advocate by telling me that if things continu like this, it will be a worse situation at the end. She sits on my back and tells me that thee is 'space between what i do and who i am'. I find this overbearing. Also she asks me a lot of times 'what do you need to listen better?' For me it's hard to tell what I need, since I have a hard time asking for help . She thinks I am puzzling for her. I must admit I forget three times in two months an agreement..Like: you should be here at 9 am, but now it's later. Why you do this..etc. I sometimes think she takes this personally or maybe it's a image thing..I don't know. What can I do to make me feel more comfortable with her and show her that I am competent in my own way?
Is there any way that an ENFj can calm down? I can usually get my ENFj friend to calm down, I think it is because I can get her to think more logically.
@Wanderer: development takes time, effort, and the right information. The only thing you can do now is to tell her the truth.
react calmly to what they are saying/doing, speak more slowly and quietly, minimize facial expression, and be kind of stoic/stern like an ixtj. of course you must do this in addition to the things you would normally do to calm someone down like giving positive signals of affirmation, being understanding, and perhaps hugging them.
Did your post count go down Pedro? (not that I really care about these things, but I thought you were in the thousands).
Hey it's great to have an enfj here, welcome!!
I've been friends with a couple of them. They do have this aristocratic type of flavor, too, but it's not obnoxious or anything.
The ones I know are great entrepeneurs, they really have a talent for setting up their own businesses. They've also got their finger on the pulse of the group, too, and make great managers. They can be quite mainstream in this respect.
Wanderer, if your teacher is truly entp, then the thing that will impress her most is innovative thought - which it seems like enfj's have great ideas about how to apply ideas to practical use i.e. setting up your own business etc. Entp's can take it kind of personally if you're not willing to discuss and consider ideas and how they relate - are you participating as expected?
= ESFj not ENFj.Originally Posted by Wanderer
I cant speak for all ENFJs on this but two things help for me personally:Originally Posted by Jimbean.
When someone is calm and in a listening mode. Logic helps-- but dont be critical. Just listen and interact. Bring some real world ideas into the ENFJ mindset of abstract relation.
The other thing is a specific type of humor. The sharp/cutting/overly honest kind that many people seem to really dislike. It seems to be relieving.
The interesting thing to note is than ENFJs are the most reserved of all the E's. I dont think being hyper is directly related to being an ENFJ. The only real issue in this realm is the constant want to talk to someone theyre comfortable with. Personally I only get hyper if Im getting cabin fever (ie. too much introverted time) and need a release or Im really excited to see someone I havent connected with in a great while. ENFJ mileage may vary tho ^_^
Hey, Jadae! Welcome back.
tell a friend!
Hahaha! *waves to Pedro*Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
It's Christi- your wonderful ENFj friend! :wink:
Don't give too much away!
Hmmm I do not like that I can't edit my grammar mistakes!