What don't you like about your duals?

[Suz]

Wrong. A long time ago, I showed pictures of my ISTp brother and his "new girl" and in one of them he was standing with our other brother.

And you said, "Guy on the left is Ne-ENTp" or words to that affect, which is actually completely the truth.

Here is that photo, again:

I am very sure I did not say that; he doesn't look like ENTp; he may be INTp; I may have said INTp

Lack of consistency is a HUGE flaw of Maritsa's. I've seen it a bunch of times now with her.

[Beautiful sky]

Lack of consistency is a HUGE flaw of Maritsa's.

This is the kind of comment that is refered to as Volitional pressure Se (USED BY ESFP-LIKE YOU AND ESTP), and the kind of comment where I would ask you to please LEAVE ME ALONE.

You don't know when to back off, you twisted individual.

DO YOU SEE THAT

VIXENDOGFOX:
"Actually, it pains me to admit this but I'm sorry, you're right that you didn't say it. I just reviewed the post and it was somebody else! Whoops..."

AND THAT IS WHY I AM AN HONEST PERSON...BECAUSE IT'S POINTLESS TO LIE, CHEAT, STEAL, AND INSINUATE COMMENTS LIKE THE KIND YOU MAKE WITHOUT VALID AND HONEST REMARKS.

[Suz]

This is the kind of comment that is refered to as Volitional pressure Se (USED BY ESFP-LIKE YOU AND ESTP), and the kind of comment where I would ask you to please LEAVE ME ALONE.

You don't know when to back off, you twisted individual.

DO YOU SEE THAT

VIXENDOGFOX:
"Actually, it pains me to admit this but I'm sorry, you're right that you didn't say it. I just reviewed the post and it was somebody else! Whoops..."

AND THAT IS WHY I AM AN HONEST PERSON...BECAUSE IT'S POINTLESS TO LIE, CHEAT, STEAL, AND INSINUATE COMMENTS LIKE THE KIND YOU MAKE WITHOUT VALID AND HONEST REMARKS.

I still stand by what i said, you are very inconsistent in lots of things you say. It's not Se, i'm merely stating my experience with you. That you TAKE it as Se speaks more about you and your being unable to explain your version of socionics clearly and consistently enough for people to agree with you (and obviously that's because your vi method just doesn't work, and then your explanations of socionics try to bend things to fit your VI, which then becomes convoluted, inconsistent, and nonsensical).

Everything I say appears to be threatening to you (even if it's not meant to be by me), but obviously that's because your method holds no potential and Ne can see right through that. Most if not all my fellow IEEs here feel the same way I do about you.

Disagreement =/= Se.

[Creepy-male]

Totally irrelevant to anything, but LIIs make me want to be ESE. True story.

EDIT

They're also highly over-represented on both sides of the hugging equation for me. More hugs have been rendered by or given to LIIs than *any other type*.

You know what this means, labcoat. Come to Perth and prepare to be relentlessly clung to

MORE EDIT

ESE bait:

[MatthewZ]

Totally irrelevant to anything, but LIIs make me want to be ESE. True story.

EDIT

They're also highly over-represented on both sides of the hugging equation for me. More hugs have been rendered by or given to LIIs than *any other type*.

You know what this means, labcoat. Come to Perth and prepare to be relentlessly clung to

MORE EDIT

ESE bait:

Hey, ME FIRST.

[Mattie]

People, chill out and get back on topic Duke it out elsewhere, make your own thread

[Creepy-male]

Hey, ME FIRST.

You aren't as endearing as labcoat, and I have no desire to cuddle you to death.

[Park]

I don't like the way they talk dirty to me.

[07490]

I don't like the way they talk dirty to me.

you have an example of how the conversation usually go?

[Wynch]

There isn't much I dislike about my duals OR semi-duals. I've had overwhelmingly positive experiences with both of them. The only criticism I can really come up with is that they are loyal to an extreme that can make me uncomfortable. If you're in a relationship you like or even mostly like with an SEI, then that can be good because they're exceptionally patient (and stubborn) with free-floaters like me. However, if you're in a relationship that you're not happy with (for whatever reason) they're like barnacles (I think I described it like this before). So when you're definitely ready to move on, they stick to the bottom of your ship unless you kind of crush them and yourself. There's no easy way to peel yourself out of a relationship with an SEI because they never want to give up on you. That sounds like a ridiculous thing to claim as a fault, but it's the only thing I can think of.

[thePirate]

This is the kind of comment that is refered to as Volitional pressure Se :.

NO IT ISNT YOU STUPID, STUPID WOMAN.

THIS IS NOT HOW IT MANIFESTS. SHE IS NOT PERSISTING IN THE WAY TYPES DO, YOUR JUST A BIG FREAKIN VAGINA THAT CRIES VICTIM EVERY OTHER POST. PLEASE SHUT THE HELL UP.

[Lobo]

Well that's just it, how much of it is much needed and how much of it is avoidance or simply not wanting to deal with things? I don't know. I think some EIIs have lingered in that state past the point of "much needed".

Sure, it's selfish to want to interrupt things. But that's not what I was talking about. I wouldn't want someone demanding all my attention or telling me I'm working too hard on some project or "Te" matter. The example from an LSE end might be - he disappears at work and goes into various meetings and puts in bunches of overtime without letting his EII wife knowing why he's not home for dinner, etc.

I'm mostly referring to other people, by the way - you seem to deal with this better than most.

It's really strange for people to just disappear and expect others to just accept or guess that "oh the EII is just needing her space" - what if something bad happened? etc. It's like not going to classes for a week and expecting your teachers 'to just know' that you're sick, etc.

Why it seems so selfish is because it's like simply withdrawing from everything and expecting or forcing other people to deal with things. Like "I'm going to take a break from dealing with reality for a while while I tend to my emotional state - you're going to make sure everything is still functional, right?". It's more, I'm amazed by the entitlement to having personal time just to deal with one's own feelings - and that's partially because, yes, I don't operate that way, at all.

What do you mean by making sure everything is still functional? Do you mean that EIIs take breaks from situations that depend on them?

As for the OP, there is one thing that I have a hard time dealing with LSEs, but I don't know how to express it well at the moment. It's related to how they might be so caught up with whatever it is they are doing or thinking about, that they lose sight on what I consider obvious signals of interpersonal dynamics issues and potential problems. An exaggerated example is that they might be asking for information from someone who is noticeably depressed, and not notice this, and then arrive at a negative conclusion about them, that the person was being "rude" or something like that. When in doubt, it seems like they assume the worst about a person's response towards them, and sometimes it's the opposite, they get all happy and offer their services to people who really don't give a shit about them... It's the area of interpersonal relationships that really frustrates me.

[Suz]

NO IT ISNT YOU STUPID, STUPID WOMAN.

THIS IS NOT HOW IT MANIFESTS. SHE IS NOT PERSISTING IN THE WAY TYPES DO, YOUR JUST A BIG FREAKIN VAGINA THAT CRIES VICTIM EVERY OTHER POST. PLEASE SHUT THE HELL UP.

THANK you Pirate!! I guess my impression really wasn't wrong about that. . .

Though the way you put it, conveys it much better than I could!

[Gilly]

My only beef with LSIs is that some of them NEVER shut the fuck up and don't know when to either let the other person speak or end a conversation. My LSI-Se friend will call me and just rant about some ridiculous shit that happened at work for literally like 20 minutes non-stop. This other one I work with will be talking to me, and I will have something to go do, and I will literally say "one sec" or "be right back" to him to go do my job, and he will just KEEP TALKING Half the time its hilarious, half the time it's annoying; thankfully I am good at guiding them and, when necessary, maneuvering the conversation for them. It's kind of ironic, because the fact that some of them talk a lot is actually something that I generally appreciate: a lot of the time I get disenchanted with conversations, especially in "social situations," and don't feel like mustering the bother to say anything because it seems fruitless and redundant, and it feels irritating and fake for me to try to just come up with some shit to talk about, but usually they will either see that I am becoming disengaged and come at me with something, or just...keep talking It's cool because I can pretty much direct conversation wherever I like and just sort of let them go.

[Park]

you have an example of how the conversation usually go?

IEE: Love me like an infantile.
Me: What?
IEE: I want you to hump me through those boxers. Gently.
Me: Get out.
IEE: I have that pink Calvin Klein thong on.
Me: I'm not in the mood.
IEE: I need some coffee.
Me: Go fix yourself some.
IEE: The coffee machine is broken.
Me: Drink something else then.
IEE: Oh, screw you.
Me: Screw me? No, screw YOU!
IEE: Yes! Screw me, please!

[thePirate]

what the heck lol.

come to beta parky.

we treat you right

[Park]

what the heck lol.

come to beta parky.

we treat you right

EIEs - hell

with the exception of Numbers, of course

[Gilly]

EIEs - hell

And proud of it.

[Wynch]

IEE: Love me like an infantile.
Me: What?
IEE: I want you to hump me through those boxers. Gently.
Me: Get out.
IEE: I have that pink Calvin Klein thong on.
Me: I'm not in the mood.
IEE: I need some coffee.
Me: Go fix yourself some.
IEE: The coffee machine is broken.
Me: Drink something else then.
IEE: Oh, screw you.
Me: Screw me? No, screw YOU!
IEE: Yes! Screw me, please!

o.o

You can't be serious.

[Fabelie]

There's no easy way to peel yourself out of a relationship with an SEI because they never want to give up on you. That sounds like a ridiculous thing to claim as a fault, but it's the only thing I can think of.

I understand what you're saying because I know that I always look for the best thing in a relationship and try to work out a solution which makes it hard for me to move on.

[Mattie]

To make things more interesting, are there qualities of any public figures that are your dual that you don't like? I'm interested in deconstructing the idea of a dual, because before we knew socionics, I'm not sure we'd have the same answers when asking about the same people, as a certain prestige or specialness is attributed to some for just having the title of being your dual.

ETA: I overall want to probe how we, as part of this community, already cast expectations of a person because of a socionic title. For instance, you expect there to be misunderstanding or hostility from someone of the opposite quadra not because you experienced it from that person, but because they have that title as being your contrary, super-ego, etc. Can you tell I've been encountering post-modern material lately?

[sarinana]

IEE/SLI isn't the worst typing from VI imo.

actually in my head i always typed her as Delta ST.

[UDP]

I kind of don't like how I tend to gravitate to them a lot and and often "at their service" in a lot of situations. I can be overly "taking care of things" and checking up on them or making sure they have food or things are working well, sometimes, when I don't really need to do it, or outstep my bounds or station, or even level of relationship sometimes. It's even harder if they are cute.

[Beautiful sky]

I kinda don't like that I find them so overwhelmingly physically attractive; that can be a huge distraction.

[UDP]

all of them? or is that induced by the idealization of them because "they are your dual, so you must think they are attractive" ?

[Beautiful sky]

Ok, I guess that was a compliment to one person in mind.

[jewels]

IEE: Love me like an infantile.
Me: What?
IEE: I want you to hump me through those boxers. Gently.
Me: Get out.
IEE: I have that pink Calvin Klein thong on.
Me: I'm not in the mood.
IEE: I need some coffee.
Me: Go fix yourself some.
IEE: The coffee machine is broken.
Me: Drink something else then.
IEE: Oh, screw you.
Me: Screw me? No, screw YOU!
IEE: Yes! Screw me, please!

though clearly a joke, there is some truth to this in SLI/IEE interactions. SADLY. very sadly.

[mu4]

Can't find them without their boyfriends.

[krieger]

They're also highly over-represented on both sides of the hugging equation for me. More hugs have been rendered by or given to LIIs than *any other type*.

You know what this means, labcoat. Come to Perth and prepare to be relentlessly clung to

You aren't as endearing as labcoat, and I have no desire to cuddle you to death.

You know that thing where people think you're female?

You're not helping it.

(or my reputation for badassery for that matter)

[Creepy-Cyclops]

though clearly a joke, there is some truth to this in SLI/IEE interactions. SADLY. very sadly.

Really? Sounds like a crock of shit to me.

[Creepy-male]

(or my reputation for badassery for that matter)

EDIT

I totally forgot about how people used to think I was a girl. Ah, good times, great classic hits.

[Suz]

brian, ur a funny dude!!

[Suz]

Really? Sounds like a crock of shit to me.

the image that that set of words conjured up was not pretty

[Mattie]

Really? Sounds like a crock of shit to me.

Agreed

[xerx]

They're magical and perfect in every way.

[UDP]

"You complete me"

[silverchris9]

The good things about SLEs are all of the bad things about them. They often will just refuse to try to have a conversation with someone they're not interested in having a conversation with, unless they have something to get out of it, which can make social interactions a bit awkward. They are insanely direct and sometimes it just seems like they're using you (but eventually being around them is recompense enough, and you enter "glad to be of help" mode). They dominate conversations (but this also eventually becomes a positive). They generally don't really care about your emotional whatevercrap (unless it's sublime/dramatic emotional whatevercrap, in which case they care). They can be jackasses (to you and to others). They can be kind of oblivious to certain emotional cues that others give them, which is generally comically endearing but sometimes it's just like, geez, get a clue and deal with it. Female SLEs (and SEEs), in my experience, are huge flirts, which is obviously both positive and negative (positive if they're flirting with you, negative if you unnecessarily get your hopes up).

[Mattie]

I guess to give more food for thought, do you find that you instantly click with your duals? Or, do you tend to think that someone you instantly click with might be your dual (or in your quadra)? Do you find the immaculate treatment of duals to be fine, or would we open up a new area of thought by hashing out the problems with duality? (I know that NeFi are notorious for bitching about duality, I don't know why, but something tells me we're the frontiers(wo)men on realistic application of this stuff )

[Lobo]

I guess to give more food for thought, do you find that you instantly click with your duals? Or, do you tend to think that someone you instantly click with might be your dual (or in your quadra)? Do you find the immaculate treatment of duals to be fine, or would we open up a new area of thought by hashing out the problems with duality? (I know that NeFi are notorious for bitching about duality, I don't know why, but something tells me we're the frontiers(wo)men on realistic application of this stuff )

Well, I tend to click faster with ISTps. It's more like a sibling/buddy relationship. Duality is something else... It's automatically serious, with no bs.

[3RainbowSprinkles]

I guess to give more food for thought, do you find that you instantly click with your duals? Or, do you tend to think that someone you instantly click with might be your dual (or in your quadra)? Do you find the immaculate treatment of duals to be fine, or would we open up a new area of thought by hashing out the problems with duality? (I know that NeFi are notorious for bitching about duality, I don't know why, but something tells me we're the frontiers(wo)men on realistic application of this stuff )

Socionics has played a role in my life with and without knowing about it. The only real difference is I would give people a shot to be friends with them just because they were there and ended up getting burned. The rest of the people that have remained over the years have all turned out to be in my quadra (with the exception of one ESTP). It's really quite amazing how that works out. Now? I'm very in tune with chemistry I feel like others...for instance i can see how the chemistry I feel with my supervisor or conflictor could be mistaken for something more (without the help of socionics), but others in my quadra...there is a definite spark that makes me wanna keep coming back for more.

I feel like i often click well with my duals when meeting them, but I don't often feel a strong chemistry towards them until getting to know them after a while. I find this most strange in comparison with the chemistry I feel with types that are just no good for me.

As for this whole thread topic....there are TONS of things that can make Dualities crash and burn. For one, with all dualities--don't listen to what others say or think about the relationship. I know this can be hard, but people have different perceptions of what is 'good' for you or may be jealous haters looking for good gossip. If YOU feel like you like your dual, stick with it..it's hard enough making a relationship work without listening or taking everyone else into account (even family).

Over the time that I've spend with my SLI, there have been many problems that have arisen in our relationship. For one, trust was a main issue/concern of mine. My SLI was always very adventurous, while I liked that about him, there was a side of him that would adventure towards other women frequently. The way I found to deal with this best was to give him his space and leave the situation--one day down the road perhaps it would work again. Another thing I didn't like was how he would never include me in his plans/life. He treated me as another entity and he was very concerned about the level of privacy he possessed. That made me feel like he wanted to shut me out for some reason that I would in turn go searching for (vicious cycle).

On a less serious note, currently the thing i don't like about my SLI is when we have problems, sometimes he'll just shut down and it will scare me because I don't want to be stone walled (Dr. John Gottman). It's usually cuz he needs time to collect his thoughts and say what he has to say to me at a later time. I think what the SLI teaches the EII is patients and what the EII teaches the SLI is commitment.