Explain Quadras

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Blaze]

Ne + Ti = Inventor
Ti + Ne = Architect

See how easy that is.

For any Alpha NT to make a lasting contribution, they design a prototype of something that can be produce to scale but do not engage themselves totally in the production or the commerce, these are done in collaboration with other types.

The thing about saying or designing something true, is that it will remain true the next day and the day after that. And this has a great persuasive effect which crosses time and space. Which is why Logic is somewhere between Space and Time in the grand scheme of human information metabolisms.

Honesty to oneself and the universe is the only criteria by which Alpha NT's judge themselves. And if we make a mistake, so be it, the mistakes reveal just as much as the insights. It only matters we make our insights verifiable.

Nonetheless, when Alpha types are the head of organization either thru birth or thru collaboration with others, they can easily create many commercial innovations. For example take Ted Turner(ILE)(Created CNN and basically changed television) and many other Alpha entrepreneurs. ESE is a very entrepreneurial types and have great deal of charisma and social skills. Tesla could have been the worlds first billionaire but he tore up the contract which would have made him that. This is because money is merely a tool to change the world for Alphas a means rather then a end.

ah you stir my ILE heart with these words...and yet...in practical application, over time, i can tell you that very rarely are alphas in charge. our influence and stamp in the culture remains in our truthful innovations which stand the test of time and space, as you say. we are not meant to run things. i say this as a 45 year old person who's now worked for 25 years.

perhaps someone can persuade me other wise; i would feel emboldened.

[mu4]

ah you stir my ILE heart with these words...and yet...in practical application, over time, i can tell you that very rarely are alphas in charge. our influence and stamp in the culture remains in our truthful innovations which stand the test of time and space, as you say. we are not meant to run things. i say this as a 45 year old person who's now worked for 25 years.

perhaps someone can persuade me other wise; i would feel emboldened.

Most people don't run anything no matter what type they are. There are far more important factors which make people work some job for wages rather then go do their own thing then type. Even those people that do their own thing often are still doing work for hire from which few are organized by.

[Blaze]

I might be mistaken, but it might be possible that this idea was taken from a powerpoint slide show of mine. Let me explain what it means, as short as possible

Alpha: the attitude of alphas is that of childhood, i.e. playfull and curious (not childish!!). Often, Alphas arrive at their live goals in their twenties and basically stay the same throughout their lives (of course, this does not mean they don grow, but they don change a lot after that). It is not uncommon for an alpha to be a theoretical scientist or performing artist in their twenties and maintain that lifestyle for the rest of their lives.

Beta: their attitude is that of teenagers. More than Alphas, they are willing to oppose the status quo and fight it. Betas typically are rounded in their thirties: they have then reached a lifestyle that is materially and socially comfortable (more than alphas), but they often do materially not have more than needed to maintain that lifestyle.

Gamma: their attitude is that of adults. Theyŕe actions are more self-responsible and self-generated than Betas. In contrast to Betas, Gammas are more likely to acquire material resources beyond their daily needs. If possible, their goal is to stop working later in life , but before retirement, so they accumulate resources that allow them to do just that. Because of that, Gammas arrival time is often in their fourties.

Delta: their attitude is that of seniority and wisdom, which they expiriment with for a large part of their lifes, and it is not uncommon that a lot of their efforts are wasted until they reach their fifties. But by that they, they might have learned so much, also from their mistakes, that they re able to create satisfying and meaningful lifes for themselves, nd sometimes also for society.

All this assuming all goes according to plan

I hope this put some nuance into it.

awesome consentingadult. to add to these ideas:

further:

that there's an age loop that runs through the supervision and benefit rings through the quadras and back. goes something like this:

ILE-SEI: child
EIE-LSI: teenager
SEE-ILI: younger adult
LSE-EII: middle adult
IEE-SLI: middle adult
LIE-ESI: older adult
SLE-IEI: retiring adult
ESE-LII: grandparent

the concept of the aging of souls. the idea is that there are younger and older souls, souls that have lived more lives or something like that.

anyway, delta is seen as having maximum development and power, as seen in governments, civilizations, empires. beta is also aristocratic but more edgy: the fire of youth combined with the expertise of the retiring adult. gamma is seen as maximum innovators with profit making enterprise, while alpha opens and closes the chain of souls.

call this an opening Ne idea, open to consideration and revision.

[Blaze]

Most people don't run anything no matter what type they are. There are far more important factors which make people work some job for wages rather then go do their own thing then type. Even those people that do their own thing often are still doing work for hire from which few are organized by.

and...?? we know this....you are giving a non socionics explanation rather than expanding on your original ideas, which i felt to be so...so...enlivening.

[mu4]

and...?? we know this....you are giving a non socionics explanation rather than expanding on your original ideas, which i felt to be so...so...enlivening.

Ah, mmm I think we may not want to buy into the whole Se = good at leading and Ne = not good at leading.

Leadership is cultivated and learned behavior and vary greatly between types.

ILE make good leaders because they are highly adept problem solvers, but they require support staff and people to focus them on problems since they're not apt to care about things.

ILE have good conceptual understanding and logic which make them adept at a wide variety of subject and topics, it's really a matter of having the right team and subject so they can maintain interest.

Informal meetings, direct action, neccessary action, flexible schedule, cute secretary, interesting subject, these are the requirements for a ILE to take charge. Socionics has a big effect in team building, keep it on the same ring of social progress and quadra as far as long term direct contact for any socionic type.

But all of this take excess capital or funding, so the key is to acquire sufficient capital, funding and risk isolation to produce this enviroment.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[consentingadult]

Isn't it funny how the deltas whose mindset is the most mature, ultimately reach maturity the latest. . .

It indeed is. If you look at it from the POV of 'self-acceptance', Alphas most definitively rule surpreme.

[consentingadult]

ILE-SEI: child
EIE-LSI: teenager
SEE-ILI: younger adult
LSE-EII: middle adult
IEE-SLI: middle adult
LIE-ESI: older adult
SLE-IEI: retiring adult
ESE-LII: grandparent

interesting indeed. Could you elaborate more on this, e.g. by describing how these work out IRL?

[consentingadult]

You know what, I'm having second thoughts about it actually, and I do sort of like this. It seems to fit my mindset while growing up, and the Delta one reminds me of John Williams the composer. There does appear out of some observation to be a strange link between Alpha--childhood and Delta--old age.

it is, as long as you think in terms of 'existential attitudes', and not in terms of actual maturity, which each quadra can be in its own right. That's the danger of slide shows, that they're taken at face value, whereas they are more meant as a tool to support the spoken word.

[Mattie]

This thread hurts me on the inside

[consentingadult]

This thread hurts me on the inside

Don't worry:

[UDP]

Nice thread.

[tiny_dancer]

ah you stir my ILE heart with these words...and yet...in practical application, over time, i can tell you that very rarely are alphas in charge. our influence and stamp in the culture remains in our truthful innovations which stand the test of time and space, as you say. we are not meant to run things. i say this as a 45 year old person who's now worked for 25 years.

perhaps someone can persuade me other wise; i would feel emboldened

Srsly? Who are you meeting? lol Most alphas I know run things. I know many independent business people (lawyer, architect, horse trainer, entrepreneur, artist, writer, chiropractor), several professors, a collegiate program director, an engineer who's swiftly rising to prominence in his company, and a VP of Bus. Dev, who is also the youngest VP in the history of his engineering firm. Granted, almost everyone I know is in a technical/intellectual profession.

I guess it can depend on how you mean "run." I don't view small business people as lesser than heads of large companies. Anyway, most alphas I know do quite well as managers. The Fe charisma helps a lot.

I think companies definitely have different cultures and IM values. Not sharing the values of the management means you'll probably be stymied in attempts to move up in the organization.

[silverchris9]

Given that a tragedy is what happens when desire is incommensurate with the world, and a comedy is what happens when desire is incommensurate with the world, one can either change one's desires or change one's perspective:

Delta: Change your desires, happiness is wanting what you have, tragic acceptance. Thus, for delta, life is most likely to be a comedy, because one can most often make one's desires commensurate to the world.
Beta: Change the world, happiness is in getting what you want, no tragic acceptance whatsoever. Life is most likely to be a tragedy, because it is extraordinarily rare and difficult to change the world in order to make it commensurate to your desires.

Alpha and Gamma: Eh. Theoretically, alpha should be: life moves from comedy to tragedy; gamma should be: life moves from tragedy to comedy, so,

Alpha: Knowing that you have fairly moderate desires, change the world just enough to make 'em sync up.

Gamma: Knowing that you have pretty good capacity to change the world, change your desires just enough to make 'em sync up.

Also, I think this has a lot to do with Ni/Se vs. Ne/Si: Se tells you that you can change the world by affecting the real world; it is confident in its ability to make whatever it wants to happen, happen. Ni tells you that you can change the world by changing the way you see the world, changing your perceptions. Ne is too abstract to have that same kind of 100% certainty that you can change the world, and Si is too concrete (because it's tied to physical sensations) to believe that you have that much control over your subjective perceptions.