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  1. #1
    Creepy-Cyclops

    Default Fidelity

    What are your views on cheating on your partner or spouse?

    I've noticed so many people who go behind their partners back, yet it seems from talking to people that everyone says it's wrong.

    Anyway, this conversation came up at work today and it was interesting to see what people had to say.

    For myself, i've seen plenty people go behind their partners backs. I've also been with a few married woman when I was younger. My attitude at the time was that it was them who were doing something wrong, not me - as i'm the single one - and it may as well be me who's getting some action rather than some other guy.

    However, seeing so many things clouds my trust on the issue of fidelity, and surely with so many people 'two timing' or just one night stands, and so many people saying they don't, that there's got to be lying somewhere!

    I thought later today that maybe it was like golf courses. Some people become a member of a golf course and play on it forever, some people are regulars on their golf course, occasionally fancy a bit of variety, then the change of golf course makes them appreciate their old faithful so they go back to it again, remembering why they liked it so much. Some people don't play on the one course at all, but are forever changing.

    So I thought that golf courses could represent people attitudes to monogomy.

    Would anyone else here go behind their partners/husbands/wifes back? Have you done before? And what is your general thoughts on the matter?

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Are you asking in terms of quadra behavior?

    I will speak for myself as EII and say, that depends. I would say, that as a general rule, I am very loyal and committed. I don't cheat under any circumstance; I will break up instead. I want a relationship to be honest and legitimate, but on the other hand, I know my best match is anything but the one woman kind of guy. So, I suppose I am the best match for them, because I am the most “forgiving” and “understanding” of all the types and I understand that their brain is not wired like my brain…ESTj are very hedonistic, to a fault or not of their own; but, we are human. If I am going to be in a long terms relationship with them, I want to try to be more understanding, while they should grab that hedonic horse by the horns and control their instinctive drive.

    It's a compromise.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 02-24-2010 at 05:32 PM.
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  3. #3
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Maritsa, please don't contribute to this thread, I really want to hear some sensible measured answers. Seriously, please don't post at least for a while, i'd hate to see this thread ruined, thanks.

    To everyone else, i'm not quite convinced this should be type related, hence - is it type related. I'm more interested in your honest views and answers on the subject.

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    xyz's Avatar
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    What was wrong with Maritsas response?

    I don't think cheating is type related. I think there's a bigger problem abouts.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

  5. #5
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    What was wrong with Maritsas response?
    I think she might have edited it or something, so it's not as bad now. It's probably the socionic thing that concerns me - ie she'd "squeeze" herself to fit into what she's read about a dual. I'd rather hear peoples own opinons on the subject, who they are not what the theory is meant to do and such.

    Fair enough though, i'll respond to it, after all it's better and i'm maybe being too critical or suspecting the worst, lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33
    I will speak for myself as EII and say, that depends. I would say, that as a general rule, I am very loyal and committed. I want a relationship to be honest and legitimate, but on the other hand, I know my best match is anything but the one woman kind of guy. So, I suppose I am the best match for them, because I am the most “forgiving” and “understanding” of all the types and I understand that their brain is not wired like my brain…ESTj are very hedonistic, to a fault or not of their own; but, we are human. If I am going to be in a long terms relationship with them, I want to try to be more understanding, while they should grab that hedonic horse by the horns and control their instinctive drive.

    It's a compromise.
    Would you yourself cheat, or have you done? You are prepared to date or marry someone who is a cheater, even if you didn't know about socionics?

    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard
    I don't think cheating is type related. I think there's a bigger problem abouts.
    Yeah, perhaps I should have put it in anything goes, i'd rather not really associate it with some gibberish socionic explanation, suppose I could've misjudged the subheading.

    Maybe the thread should be moved after all.

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    Do you think it has something to do with western society and what it demands from males?

    It'd be interesting to know from a non US point of view.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Would you yourself cheat, or have you done? You are prepared to date or marry someone who is a cheater, even if you didn't know about socionics?

    Maybe the thread should be moved after all.
    I did not edit anything to fit neither myself nor what I have read of my dual, but you can assume or suggest whatever you would like.

    I have never cheated and I never will. I am not sure if I am prepared to date or marry someone who is a cheater, even if I didn't know about socionics; I would say no, that I am not prepared, I want an honest and legitimate relationship and one that is full of values, morals, integrity. I don't want to assume that my husband will ever cheat on me.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    What are your views on cheating on your partner or spouse?

    I've noticed so many people who go behind their partners back, yet it seems from talking to people that everyone says it's wrong.

    So I thought that golf courses could represent people attitudes to monogomy.

    Would anyone else here go behind their partners/husbands/wifes back? Have you done before? And what is your general thoughts on the matter?

    Everyone says that smoking is wrong, yet there are so many smokers out there.. and i'm pretty sure that every smoker knows that it is bad for their health. so don't trust what people say, it's what they do that counts.

    personally i would not cheat on my partner, if i ever feel like cheating i would take it as a sign that the relationship has "died out" and simply break up... and then go nuts. but i could never forgive if my partner would cheat on me. and i mean never.. that is the worst thing that someone could do to me.

    and i would never want someone who i am together with, and care for, to feel this way.

    anyway, i was thinking if it could be socionics related.. maybe it depends on temperaments? if EP (ILE, SLE, SEE, and IEE) are more likely to do as they please in the very moment.. but that is just a thought
    LIE

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    Hello...? somavision's Avatar
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    Did it once, wouldn't do it again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Nah, that's not generally true.
    I would say its not totally untrue. There is a double standard for sexuality. If men sleep with a lot of women they are cool but if women sleep with a lot of men they are considered a whore.

    I would never cheat or help someone else cheat. I would rather break up or divorce. I don't know if I could be with someone who cheated on me. It would be very difficult and I would probably have an extremely difficult time trusting them.
    “No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardia View Post
    I would say its not totally untrue. There is a double standard for sexuality. If men sleep with a lot of women they are cool but if women sleep with a lot of men they are considered a whore.
    I have discussed this topic recently with an SEE girl. The truth is quite simple - it's biology. Forgive me if I sound rough here. No man would wish for a coocoo's egg in his nest. His female, his children and his genes must win. That's why a woman cannot cheat on a man.

    But why can a man cheat on women? To spread his genes! It is a double standard, indeed. For the people who are stuck somewhere between animals and humas level of development, I say.

    And for those who are more humane there is another standard - family. Supporting and nourishing new generations that stem from you.

    I have never cheated nor am I planning on cheating. And if I don't feel enough commitment to get married and fully devote myself, I won't. I'm such a hardass in these matters .

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldj View Post
    I have discussed this topic recently with an SEE girl. The truth is quite simple - it's biology. Forgive me if I sound rough here. No man would wish for a coocoo's egg in his nest. His female, his children and his genes must win. That's why a woman cannot cheat on a man.

    But why can a man cheat on women? To spread his genes! It is a double standard, indeed. For the people who are stuck somewhere between animals and humas level of development, I say.

    And for those who are more humane there is another standard - family. Supporting and nourishing new generations that stem from you.

    I have never cheated nor am I planning on cheating. And if I don't feel enough commitment to get married and fully devote myself, I won't. I'm such a hardass in these matters .
    No, that's BS...Men don't cheat to spread their seed, they cheat to have fun.
    They don't look to get another girl pregnant, they just want to f...around. They probably love their families very much and don't want to compromise that most of the time.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardia View Post
    I would say its not totally untrue. There is a double standard for sexuality. If men sleep with a lot of women they are cool but if women sleep with a lot of men they are considered a whore.
    However, men that sleep with a lot of women while married/engaged aren't considered "cool", at least around here. I supposed that was the context Maritsa was referring to.

    But why can a man cheat on women? To spread his genes! It is a double standard, indeed. For the people who are stuck somewhere between animals and humas level of development, I say.
    Just about the worst possible thing could happen to a cheating man is getting the girl-woman pregnant. Perhaps you're referring to uncoscious drives, but in that case it's not a falsifiable proposition. I'm with Maritsa on this, cheating is mostly done to have "fun" or "variety".
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Under the perspective of Koldj's argument, it isn't a matter of what's right but of which strategy will win. The argument goes that getting lots of women pregnant wins... however, birth control, abortion etc. throw quite a spanner in the works. Who's having all the children under these circumstances? Not the person trying to straddle the fence between two strategies! In conclusion, I suggest that trying to be monogamous and polygamous at the same time (i.e. cheating) is clearly erroneous.



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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somavision View Post
    Did it once, wouldn't do it again.
    I sent you a PM
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    All true, cyclops. My solution is to change my aspirations from monogomy to serial monogomy.

    Maritsa, Great idea! But the only way we'll ever get it done, is if we go out into the streets ourselves and start counting. Infact, we can start today. Ill start by going door to door and counting in my city, you start in your city, and we'll go from there.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratXII View Post
    All true, cyclops. My solution is to change my aspirations from monogomy to serial monogomy.

    Maritsa, Great idea! But the only way we'll ever get it done, is if we go out into the streets ourselves and start counting. Infact, we can start today. Ill start by going door to door and counting in my city, you start in your city, and we'll go from there.
    I don't buy you being INFp...every think maybe you might be INTj or INFj?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    implied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    What are your views on cheating on your partner or spouse?

    I've noticed so many people who go behind their partners back, yet it seems from talking to people that everyone says it's wrong.

    Anyway, this conversation came up at work today and it was interesting to see what people had to say.

    For myself, i've seen plenty people go behind their partners backs. I've also been with a few married woman when I was younger. My attitude at the time was that it was them who were doing something wrong, not me - as i'm the single one - and it may as well be me who's getting some action rather than some other guy.
    this is interesting to me because i have definitely had married/otherwise taken people hit on me, etc. the whole reason i would never pursue a relationship with one of these people is because i would never want it done to me.

    i have an ex-boyfriend from high school who i still keep in touch with. to make a long story short, he came to visit me once, we made out, and i later found out he had a girlfriend. i was pretty disgusted with him and actually got really angry with him about it, because i felt like i had done something i wouldn't have otherwise done had i had the knowledge that he had a gf.

    anyhow, it's weird, because really i don't know his current girlfriend, and wouldn't ever have to. but i still won't do it.


    and i'm definitely not claiming i've never cheated on someone, because i have. however, when it happened it was when the relationship had gone downhill already & was completely unsalvageable.

    However, seeing so many things clouds my trust on the issue of fidelity, and surely with so many people 'two timing' or just one night stands, and so many people saying they don't, that there's got to be lying somewhere!
    maybe, but a lot of people do value fidelity.


    re: men being "biologically wired" -- there are a LOT of arguments against this, and simplifying it down to men being "wired" to spread their seed is basically laughable. whenever i read this stuff i just think people pick an argument that is most advantageous to them and decide that is "truth," when it's just really a lot more complex than that. just fucking google it.
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