View Poll Results: Napoleon's type

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  • ILE (ENTp)

    0 0%
  • SEI (ISFp)

    0 0%
  • ESE (ESFj)

    0 0%
  • LII (INTj)

    0 0%
  • SLE (ESTp)

    3 100.00%
  • IEI (INFp)

    0 0%
  • EIE (ENFj)

    0 0%
  • LSI (ISTj)

    0 0%
  • SEE (ESFp)

    0 0%
  • ILI (INTp)

    0 0%
  • LIE (ENTj)

    0 0%
  • ESI (ISFj)

    0 0%
  • IEE (ENFp)

    0 0%
  • SLI (ISTp)

    0 0%
  • LSE (ESTj)

    0 0%
  • EII (INFj)

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Thread: Napoleon Bonaparte

  1. #41
    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Napoleon

    All this suggests creative and tehrefore polr
    So, he was either ESTp or ENTp
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

  2. #42
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    SLE has always been my typing of him.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  3. #43
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    There's no reason not to dub him SLE. He's probably an ENTJ as well. That makes him a shorter, slightly more politically potent, version of me.

    I heard the Russians called the SEE "Napoleon" and now they're reconsidering because they think he's Ti creative, not Ti PoLR.

  4. #44
    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    I've read somewhere that he made his wife feed him with a spoon, like a mother to his baby, this suggests Napoleon was an ego type.

    "Impossible is a word to be found only in the dictionary of fools" base ??

    "Music is the voice that tells us that the human race is greater than it knows" ???

    "There is no such thing as accident; it is fate misnamed" ????
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    There's no reason not to dub him SLE. He's probably an ENTJ as well.
    Stop spreading false myths. That you are an idiot is not an excuse.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    I've read somewhere that he made his wife feed him with a spoon, like a mother to his baby, this suggests Napoleon was an ego type.
    Or a Victim, with a potential Oedipus Complex.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    "Impossible is a word to be found only in the dictionary of fools" base ??
    Actually a very good example of a Se-valuing type, particularly Se ego.

    "Music is the voice that tells us that the human race is greater than it knows"
    A humanistic (in the philosophical meaning of the term) approach to life. Probably means he's Fe-valuing.

    "There is no such thing as accident; it is fate misnamed" ????
    Yes, Ni-valuing. For some gut reason, reminds me of the kind of thing a Ni DS type (SEE or SLE) would say.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I heard the Russians called the SEE "Napoleon" and now they're reconsidering because they think he's Ti creative, not Ti PoLR.
    "Napoleon" was Augusta's original nickname for the SEE; later, some socionists wrote an article making the case that the Corsican Monster was a SLE, and that "Caesar" was a better nickname for SEE.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    "Napoleon" was Augusta's original nickname for the SEE; later, some socionists wrote an article making the case that the Corsican Monster was a SLE, and that "Caesar" was a better nickname for SEE.
    Haha, fantastic name.

    My favourite Roman leader is still Augustus. Unbeatable for dealing with the people in a practical and realistic way, and for his sheer unsurpassed statesmanship. The only "emperor" between Caesar's reign and the year 117 A.D. who did not meet violent ends.

  10. #50
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    He's the SEE exemplar. I dunno, but to me that seems like a somewhat reliable indication he is an SEE.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

  11. #51
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    No. SLE.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    No. SLE.
    Yep.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  13. #53

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    My guess would be SLE.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

  14. #54
    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbean View Post
    My guess would be SLE.
    I concur with it
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

  15. #55

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    “Strategy is the art of making use of time and space. I am less concerned about the latter than the former. Space we can recover, lost time never.” - Napoleon

    If there is any quote which sums up Napoleon for me, it is this quote. It demonstrates a confidence in , and a dire need of .

  16. #56

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    I read a book on napoleon recently that described him in his youth as a bitter quiet angry loner type person, who worked his way through the military ranks through sheer aptitude (being a Corsican in the french military).

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Martrix View Post
    “Strategy is the art of making use of time and space. I am less concerned about the latter than the former. Space we can recover, lost time never.” - Napoleon

    If there is any quote which sums up Napoleon for me, it is this quote. It demonstrates a confidence in , and a dire need of .
    Wrong. Ni manifests differently in Ejs who have it as their creative than Ips who have it as their base.

    From Stratiyevskaya's portrait of ENTjs:

    "The LIE hates periods of forced idleness that are due to reasons that do not depend on him: this literally knocks him of the track."

    "Sluggishness, in all its manifestations, is irritating to him"

    "LIE can’t stand having to wait"

    INxps flow with time, ENxjs try to manipulate it.

    Imo, Napoleon's greatest failure, his invasion of Russia, showed his weak sensing. He was unable to realistically assess how harsh the environment would be (Se) or to take into account the physical needs of his soldiers (Si). I doubt a lead sensor of any sort would make these foolish mistakes.

    In fact, his need to conquer the whole Earth, to have all the space, seems to me to be the Se hidden agenda at work (I think Hit ler, possible ENFj, had a similar problem). One cannot simply merge with the environment in the way a lead Se would; one must monopolize on it.

    As for him being Te dominant, from his Wikipedia page:

    He had a "photographic memory" for facts, people, events, numbers, military units, and maps. He devoured statistical information and reports, memorized maps, and had a perfect recall of a fantastic stock of information. He understood military technology, but was not an innovator in that regard.He was an innovator in using the financial, bureaucratic, and diplomatic resources of France. He could quickly organize and integrate all that information, generating brilliant insights on complex situations. He could organize his own thoughts and rapidly dictate a series of complex commands to all his subordinates, keeping in mind where each major unit was expected to be at every future point, and like a chess master, "seeing" the best plays many moves ahead.

    To me, that sounds nothing at all like a thinking-on-the-fly Beta ST or a Te-deficient Gamma SF.

    For me, he's the prototypical ENTj.

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    Wrong. Ni manifests differently in Ejs who have it as their creative than Ips who have it as their base.

    From Stratiyevskaya's portrait of ENTjs:

    "The LIE hates periods of forced idleness that are due to reasons that do not depend on him: this literally knocks him of the track."

    "Sluggishness, in all its manifestations, is irritating to him"

    "LIE can’t stand having to wait"

    INxps flow with time, ENxjs try to manipulate it.

    Imo, Napoleon's greatest failure, his invasion of Russia, showed his weak sensing. He was unable to realistically assess how harsh the environment would be (Se) or to take into account the physical needs of his soldiers (Si). I doubt a lead sensor of any sort would make these foolish mistakes.

    In fact, his need to conquer the whole Earth, to have all the space, seems to me to be the Se hidden agenda at work (I think Hit ler, possible ENFj, had a similar problem). One cannot simply merge with the environment in the way a lead Se would; one must monopolize on it.

    As for him being Te dominant, from his Wikipedia page:

    He had a "photographic memory" for facts, people, events, numbers, military units, and maps. He devoured statistical information and reports, memorized maps, and had a perfect recall of a fantastic stock of information. He understood military technology, but was not an innovator in that regard.He was an innovator in using the financial, bureaucratic, and diplomatic resources of France. He could quickly organize and integrate all that information, generating brilliant insights on complex situations. He could organize his own thoughts and rapidly dictate a series of complex commands to all his subordinates, keeping in mind where each major unit was expected to be at every future point, and like a chess master, "seeing" the best plays many moves ahead.

    To me, that sounds nothing at all like a thinking-on-the-fly Beta ST or a Te-deficient Gamma SF.

    For me, he's the prototypical ENTj.
    I think you are right! Having read his biography, and several campaign books in detail, I thought ENTj. Seeing ESTp for him, I was perplexed. Then I read the arguments, and allowed myself to be swayed. It's funny how many different ways you can understand a person, and with Vortical Synergetic cognition, it's too easy to change one's mind.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Martrix View Post
    Having read his biography, and several campaign books in detail
    Argument from authority much? Granted, I did the same thing by bringing up Stratiyevskaya...but the "language-game" of Socionics kind of mandates we defer to the "experts". That's a whole other problem entirely.

    You haven't made an argument, all you've done is just say "You're stupid. I understand Napoleon better than you "

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    Argument from authority much? Granted, I did the same thing by bringing up Stratiyevskaya...but the "language-game" of Socionics kind of mandates we defer to the "experts". That's a whole other problem entirely.

    You haven't made an argument, all you've done is just say "You're stupid. I understand Napoleon better than you "
    Nooo! I'm stupid! And easily swayed. I'm kicking myself right now. Your insight on Napoleon is astute.

    His Se hidden agenda is obvious. This obsession with "strength" and "force" as a solution, he shared with Hit-ler (also Se-HA). Something ENTjs and ENFjs seem to share is, they want to get out of their heads and use their hands. They must DO because thought is death. Se for him, was the coup de grâce.

    If anything, Napoleon's invasion of Russia in 1812 shows an impatience and neglect for details. He underestimated the practical problems he would face, and overestimated his army's strength to deal with these problems. Si-PoLR.
    Last edited by The Martrix; 06-19-2014 at 09:35 AM.

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    Is he typed ESTp in Socionics circles now? That makes more sense... since he was so Aristocratic and donned himself so extravagantly.
    Quote Originally Posted by A.Augustinavichiute
    The goal of our work is to try to penetrate into the models of the psyche projected by Jung, to show which positions and categories can be considered completely proved and irrefutable.
    https://translate.google.com/transla...t.html&prev=_t

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    I believe that he was SLE. I don't believe in creative Fi or vulnerable Ti( just compare him with Pushkin) but I do believe in opposite. I also think Josephine was IEI.

  23. #63
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    Yes SLE

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    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Malmaison2.jpg

    this is an interesting painting; he seemed rather likeable.

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    "If for SLE leadership is a strategic calculation, where any limitations of his ambitions are perceived as a hostile move, then SEE, in contrast to SLE, fights not for the assertion of his own ambitions, but for the right to justify the confidence entrusted to him."

    "With all of his exceptional talents the SEE is more likely to be a destroyer rather than creator. In politics the SEE is the destroyer of totalitarian and authoritarian systems. In this the SEE is a daring innovator, who subverts previously existing forms."

    "The discrepancy of "volitional sensing" of SEE lies in the very democratism of his autocracy. The SEE sincerely hates tyranny and despotism. He is one of those people whose name gets written "on the fragments of autocracy" of another leader. By all means possible, the SEE attempts to not be inferior in the extent and breadth of his influence. Acknowledging his own defeat in this sense is especially agonizing to him. Attempting to hold onto his influence and authority at any cost frequently leads the SEE to behave in desperate and contradictory ways, that for him or her often have tragic consequences."

    http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...Stratiyevskaya
    Quote Originally Posted by A.Augustinavichiute
    The goal of our work is to try to penetrate into the models of the psyche projected by Jung, to show which positions and categories can be considered completely proved and irrefutable.
    https://translate.google.com/transla...t.html&prev=_t

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    Default Napoleon : SLE or SEE ?

    I was thinking SLE, but Ive seen some typing him SEE ?

  27. #67
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    I seriously think that SLE's are not so interested in expansion as SEE's are. After all SLE is more dependent on communal values. To be some sort of greater father figure or something.
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

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    LSE. PoLR is Russia.

    (I have no problem with SLE. However, if he took the MBTI, he would probably score as a strong introvert.)

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    You really think Napoleon was LSE ? lol

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    Why do you think SLE?
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I can hardly see him as Ni inferior honestly.
    He was very much LIE imho.

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    According to socionists hes SEE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    According to socionists hes SEE
    In what ways can being Ni inferior help with strategies and predicting your opponent's moves exactly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marep View Post
    In what ways can being Ni inferior help with strategies and predicting your opponent's moves exactly?
    Not much. Now the question is do we need Ni to become a commander

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    SEE
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marep View Post
    In what ways can being Ni inferior help with strategies and predicting your opponent's moves exactly?
    Any type can be smart
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    The problem is the SEE needs to gather his forces. The "program" function of SEE, +Se, like any Asking type program is prone to dispersal, splintering, differentiation which cannot, in its initial stages, oppose the united and "monolithic" power of the SLE. Zhukov's "program" will strategically opposite its unification and won't allow it to mobilize for a decisive blow. (Let's recall how many years it took Russian to become free from the Mongol-Tatar yoke, in which conditions it had to exist, and how frequently any opposing coalitions gathered by Russian rulers have been subverted and destroyed when they tried to unite to repel the Horde - every one of their attempts was brutally suppressed by ever increasing intimidation.)
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    SLE-Se 8w7 so/sp

    SeTi makes him a natural at warfare. He was also a brilliant strategist and noted for intellectual prowess like Alexander the Great (though both were primarily action-oriented and only used ideas instrumentally)....Napoleon and Alexander the Great always viewed themselves as men of action. so there's capacity for clear-headed, logical planning and hard-headed data collection (Ti-creative). Ti-creative doesn't make for a genuine theorist but merely grinds ideas down for its strategic/tactical value. Action/energy is the lead. The difference between Ti-lead and Ti-creative is that Ti-creative is only capable of formulating aggressive strategies....so it only has strategic value in an aggressive context.

    No Fi in his ego block as his people skills were weak. Good people skills would make him high in cooperativeness and give him a preference for moving towards others. SeTi expansion moves against others and SeFi expansion moves towards others.

    Napoleon was set on climbing his way to the top of the mountain. This goes more to enneagram -- his core strategy is dominance....there's no discernible end for his drive to the top of the mountain....being the 800 pound gorilla was the end in itself and Napoleon loved power. Exercising power and prevailing over others (Waging War) was clearly his area of fixation, and more signifcantly, something he had an innate sense for. Because he is also SLE, his cognition engages in the most direct form of waging war (violence, fighting) against competitors as the path through which to get to the top of the mountain and reign supreme...."killing the competition.." Griselda Blanco (SLE-Se 8w7 sx/so) same thing but in the context of drug cartels and also a brilliant aggressive strategist but not as willful as Napoleon. Neverthless, same end result, being at war with everyone not for any ulterior motive, just simply to be the only one at the top. Huey Long and Carmine Galante both SLE-Ti 8w7 so/sp same thing. In contrast, SEE doesn't take quite the confrontational approach to statecraft that SLE does, because they are not comfortable with negativism, so their path to the top not so hard and lusty.

    As for LIE, I shall pass over that in silence, except to state that numerous of Napoleon's feats and moves defy the dispassionate cost-benefit calculations of Te/Ni cognition. Te/Ni power drive doesn't break structure, doesn't break form or end up running through walls...Nap can only stay within a structured, organized, predictable life only so long before he is back out gambling for more power on the next big monumental showdown on the worldstage....his "Daring to the point of dementia" draws a fine but clear line between SLE and LIE as well as EIE and LIE.

    But take Mussolini an EIE-Fe 6w5 so/sp...in contrast to Napoleon, Mussolini's rise to power didn't feature any unique strategic or tactical intelligence but a capacity for working crowds up into a frenzy...same as ****** (EIE-Fe 1w9 so/sp). Napoleon had no special emotional faculty through which he could relate with his people but established his leadership through superior fortitude on the battlefield and overall iron will.
    Last edited by Kill4Me; 03-28-2019 at 10:56 PM.

  39. #79
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    SLE-Se 8w7 so/sp

    SeTi makes him a natural at warfare. He was also a brilliant strategist and noted for intellectual prowess like Alexander the Great (though both were primarily action-oriented and only used ideas instrumentally)....Napoleon and Alexander the Great always viewed themselves as men of action. so there's capacity for clear-headed, logical planning and hard-headed data collection (Ti-creative). Ti-creative doesn't make for a genuine theorist but merely grinds ideas down for its strategic/tactical value. Action/energy is the lead. The difference between Ti-lead and Ti-creative is that Ti-creative is only capable of formulating aggressive strategies....so it only has strategic value in an aggressive context.

    No Fi in his ego block as his people skills were weak. Good people skills would make him high in cooperativeness and give him a preference for moving towards others. SeTi expansion moves against others and SeFi expansion moves towards others.

    Take Mussolini an EIE-Fe 6w5 so/sp...in contrast to Napoleon, Mussolini's rise to power didn't feature any unique strategic or tactical intelligence but a capacity for working crowds up into a frenzy...same as ****** (EIE-Fe 1w9 so/sp). Napoleon had no special emotional faculty through which he could relate with his people but established his power through superior fortitude on the battlefield.

    Napoleon was set on climbing his way to the top of the mountain. This goes more to enneagram -- his core strategy is dominance....there's no discernible end for his drive to the top of the mountain....it was the end in itself and Napoleon loved power. Exercising power and prevailing over others (Waging War) was clearly his area of fixation, and more signifcantly, something he had an innate sense for. Because he is also SLE, his cognition engages in the most direct form of waging war (violence, fighting) against competitors as the path through which to get to the top of the mountain and reign supreme...."killing the competition.." Griselda Blanco (SLE-Se 8w7 sx/so) same thing but in the context of drug cartels and also a brilliant aggressive strategist but not as willful as Napoleon. Neverthless, same end result, being at war with everyone not for any ulterior motive, just simply to be the only one at the top. Huey Long and Carmine Galante both SLE-Ti 8w7 so/sp same thing. In contrast, SEE doesn't take quite the confrontational approach to statecraft that SLE does, because they are not comfortable with negativism, so their path to the top not so hard and lusty.

    As for LIE, I shall pass over that in silence, except to state that numerous of Napoleon's feats and moves defy the dispassionate cost-benefit calculations of Te/Ni cognition. "Daring to the point of dementia" draws a fine but clear line between SLE and LIE.
    He was actually romantic and emotional. Do you read background stories prior to typing???
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Ti-Polr for Napoleon only works in fake socionics….Ti-Polr is an absolute impossibility.

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