Ok, I think its time we redefine J vs P

[thePirate]

wow, thanks guys. these are pretty much the kind of responses I was aiming for, the distinction is alot clearer now.

[krieger]

I think J mostly signifies a form of politeness. J types have base and role Judging functions, so they tend to keep both F and T in account in their actions. Their goals are much less fanatical in that way. They always check whether they both want to and can do a thing within reasonable practical and ethical boundaries, not just one of the two.

[tcaudilllg]

I think J mostly signifies a form of politeness. J types have base and role Judging functions, so they tend to keep both F and T in account in their actions. Their goals are much less fanatical in that way. They always check whether they both want to and can do a thing within reasonable practical and ethical boundaries, not just one of the two.

I agree with this. I suppose the ethics thing comes into play because the substitution of private interests for public interests stimulates the id?

Seems there must be a crossover point somewhere....

[ScarlettLux]

So I've always related to irrational. That is the one main thing about EIE that does not fit... at all. I guess I have a lot of work ethic? Very driven, but that's more HA going and 3 enneagram focus.

Umm, yeah. The main reason a lot of ppl IRL don't see me as EIE is how crazy and all over the place I am. I'm more Exxp than anything, I think. I don't see myself in any of these aforementioned descriptions of rationality. I am very flowy, change my mind incessantly to the annoyance of LSIs everywhere.

[ArchonAlarion]

Dominant (Fe) INFp??

[717495]

Fe-INFp has HA.

[JuJu]

Rationals are more predictable (moods, reactions, etc)
Irrationals are much more unpredictable

In my experience, this isn't correct... There are XXXjs I've found unpredictable and vice versa.

From what I've noticed here, j/p is the most confusing aspect of Socionics.

ENFjs and ISTjs, in particular, seem to get hung up on j vs. p. I did myself (i.e. self-typing ENFp because the definition of "p," I felt, fit me better than the definition of "j...")

Many here seem to conflate MBTI's j/p criteria with Socionics'.

The only thing I can suggest is to put little to no emphasis on j vs. p when self-typing... It's a pit that many have fallen into.

[strrrng]

Fe-INFp has HA.

Yes.

[strrrng]

In my experience, this isn't correct... There are XXXjs I've found unpredictable and vice versa.

From what I've noticed here, j/p is the most confusing aspect of Socionics.

ENFjs and ISTjs, in particular, seem to get hung up on j vs. p. I did myself (i.e. self-typing ENFp because the definition of "p," I felt, fit me better than the definition of "j...")

Many here seem to conflate MBTI's j/p criteria with Socionics'.

The only thing I can suggest is to put little to no emphasis on j vs. p when self-typing... It's a pit that many have fallen into.

blah blah "J and P are the most confusing aspect because I typed myself this way based on misconceptions and then created a new misconception after subsequently mistyping myself and therefore J and P shouldn't be emphasized when typing because it would undermine my precarious self-concept" blah blah

[krieger]

I like to think of Rationals as "team-players" in my head. They seem to focus on cooperation more than irrationals do. Does this ring a bell with anyone?