Emotional side and expression of ILIs-INTps

[silverchris9]

Okay, I have a belief about ILIs that I would like opinions about. It seems to me that part of the way that Fe-polr manifests itself in ILIs is not so much a lack of emotion or excitement or whatever, but rather an emotional side (or a "crazy" side, if you prefer) that only comes out in very specific circumstances.

For instance, my good friend who I've typed as ILI says that she acts very silly around approximately three people, and really her best friend more than anyone else (also, there's a good chance they're duals, and I could totally buy this friend as my semi-dual, cause I was pretty into her for a few months, but was of course far too me-like to make any sort of move), but the rest of the time she comes off as serious, especially to people who don't know her, who often think she is arrogant or something like that until they get to know her and realize she's completely down to earth and funny and all that.

My other example is the poet Wallace Stevens, who I remain extremely inclined to type as ILI due to his great reticence and disinclination to be particularly social (in the gamma mode of "three people I really like is infinitely better than a party full of people only two of whom I like"), as well as the fact that he was an insurance executive for his entire life while simultaneously carrying on a career as the best American poet of the 20th century. And he never talked about his great poetic career at work. About half of his poems center on highly philosophical and theoretical analysis and presentation of ideas, a process he called "thinking in poetry." But the other half of his work is downright silly. For anyone who cares, I've posted an example at the bottom of this thread. So it's a similar thing; a silly, crazy side that barely ever gets to be seen by other people (at least in person).

Also, I've noticed that Fi is really good for ILIs; it seems like when they're sure they've built a bond of affection between them and another person, they're much more inclined to "open up," "be themselves," and all that.

So, thoughts?



Bantams in Pine Woods
by Wallace Stevens

Chieftain Iffucan of Azcan in caftan
Of tan with henna hackles, halt!

Damned universal cock, as if the sun
Was blackamoor to bear your blazing tail.

Fat! Fat! Fat! Fat! I am the personal.
Your world is you. I am my world.

You ten-foot poet among inchlings. Fat!
Begone! An inchling bristles in these pines,

Bristles, and points their Appalachian tangs,
And fears not portly Azcan nor his hoos.

[Jarno]

For instance, my good friend who I've typed as ILI says that she acts very silly around approximately three people, and really her best friend more than anyone else (also, there's a good chance they're duals, and I could totally buy this friend as my semi-dual, cause I was pretty into her for a few months, but was of course far too me-like to make any sort of move), but the rest of the time she comes off as serious, especially to people who don't know her, who often think she is arrogant or something like that until they get to know her and realize she's completely down to earth and funny and all that.

this is very typical indeed. people have said that I change 'personality' at times. Businesslike at one time, and totally clown at another time.
I also have read this kind of behaviour for INTP's in MBTI descriptions.

Your remark about Fe might be true, but is not what I think is most evident part of Fe polr. Most distinct is the blunt way of handling people and situations, not caring whether you behave according the rules. Making jokes that are not suited, etc.

[silverchris9]

Your remark about Fe might be true, but is not what I think is most evident part of Fe polr. Most distinct is the blunt way of handling people and situations, not caring whether you behave according the rules. Making jokes that are not suited, etc.

Really? I read that as Fi-polr, actually. Maybe similarly inappropriate (i.e., not accomplishing one's goals with regards to interpersonal relations) behavior but inappropriate in different ways? But I do agree that what I said is more of a potential consequence of Fe-polr, not the primary manifestation thereof.

[Jarno]

Really? I read that as Fi-polr, actually. Maybe similarly inappropriate (i.e., not accomplishing one's goals with regards to interpersonal relations) behavior but inappropriate in different ways? But I do agree that what I said is more of a potential consequence of Fe-polr, not the primary manifestation thereof.

I don't like talking or defining IM. But what I often read is that Fe is defined consisting out of 2 things:

1 emotions in self and others
2 what roles people should play in a group

The number 2 thing was what I was referring to.

[717495]

This is a good start, I like it. It definitely goes with Fe-PoLR and Fi for me. I need that someone to channel my social aspect through, and present my real self, instead of being just socially awkward and shy. There is nothing like being with your best friend and being a totally different person than who you usually come across as. My father is surprized by how differently I react toward various people. Usually these are my closest friends and family members. Often I am very cold on the outside. If I do become socially warm towards strangers, it is usually because I have been talking with them, and I got to see who they're all about, if they come across as good or bad people, if they like me too, etc. It is all about the person. Sometimes when I'm really thinking about someone, I can tend to act like them.

[silverchris9]

Oh, good, I'm glad gammas are responding positively to this, because it helps me to defend my ILI typing for Wallace Stevens. Happyface.

[Gilly]

Sometimes when I'm really thinking about someone, I can tend to act like them.

Textbook Fe seeking.

[AQ]

Okay, I have a belief about ILIs that I would like opinions about. It seems to me that part of the way that Fe-polr manifests itself in ILIs is not so much a lack of emotion or excitement or whatever, but rather an emotional side (or a "crazy" side, if you prefer) that only comes out in very specific circumstances.

The source of humour is Ni, not Fe gone wonky. Ni can see too many contradictions in a given situation and can find that funny/ironical/a source for sarcasm. (Ni-leading may also feel superior to those around for being able to spot irreconcilable components in a situation and then reconcile them.)

Ni coupled with Te, it produces objectivity: ILIs don't necessarily take their or others' situations seriously in a way that others may endorse as "normal".
ILIs would instinctively know how to better the situation and help the people involved in it, instead of joining the mob in shedding mass tears. So, this objectivity again is a source of humour -- when the rest of the world is worrying about something that the INTp deems "trivial" or "obvious".

Fe PoLR manifests itself in INTps by making them reject "superfluous" emotions. They wouldn't see a point in getting together a collective to weep about/cheer a situation when it is a short-term involvement and doesn't add to the "meaning" of the experience, except for experiencing the situation for its sake.
ILIs are highly orientated to this aspect (meaningfulness). This contrast is best illustrated in interactions with ESEs (who can engage in the situation just for its sake).

[silverchris9]

The source of humour is Ni, not Fe gone wonky. Ni can see too many contradictions in a given situation and can find that funny/ironical/a source for sarcasm. (Ni-leading may also feel superior to those around for being able to spot irreconcilable components in a situation and then reconcile them.)

Yes, but "Fe gone wonky" may be a part of why ILIs are disinclined to broadly share their humor with the world (as an IEI might), and instead act much more reserved around those with whom they have not gradually built an Fi bond of mutual positive sentiment, reserving their humorous, quirky, ridiculous sides for their close friends.

Fe PoLR manifests itself in INTps by making them reject "superfluous" emotions. They wouldn't see a point in getting together a collective to weep about/cheer a situation when it is a short-term involvement and doesn't add to the "meaning" of the experience, except for experiencing the situation for its sake.
ILIs are highly orientated to this aspect (meaningfulness). This contrast is best illustrated in interactions with ESEs (who can engage in the situation just for its sake).

Huh. That's a helpful view/opinion. I don't necessarily agree with it, obviously, as it is heavily influenced by quadra values, but I definitely have a better idea of a typical IEI perspective.

Forgot to add this in the last post: I had read somewhere that the Fe PoLR makes INTps crack up with laughter, i.e. they are unable to control their laughter, whereas LIIs manage to not "burst out" laughing like ILIs. Probably I read this on socionics.com...

Is this what u were referring to?

No, not at all, although that is interesting, I suppose.

[AQ]

Yes, but "Fe gone wonky" may be a part of why ILIs are disinclined to broadly share their humor with the world (as an IEI might), and instead act much more reserved around those with whom they have not gradually built an Fi bond of mutual positive sentiment, reserving their humorous, quirky, ridiculous sides for their close friends.


Huh. That's a helpful view/opinion. I don't necessarily agree with it, obviously, as it is heavily influenced by quadra values, but I definitely have a better idea of a typical IEI perspective.



No, not at all, although that is interesting, I suppose.

Yes, it is the quadra values, primarily, that explain the larger behaviour. Viewing the whole thing through the +/- paradigm also can produce similar results.

[717495]

I actually dislike that place, 4chan. I don't like a lot of those things. I also don't see what is so alpha about it. Seems more like an irrational paradise than an alpha paradise.

[ArchonAlarion]

I actually dislike that place, 4chan. I don't like a lot of those things. I also don't see what is so alpha about it. Seems more like an irrational paradise than an alpha paradise.

Merry irrational, but yes.

[Jarno]

Merry irrational

you are talking reininians this week?

[InvisibleJim]

Do you have any experience of the ILIs around you being emotionally expressive; or not so much, or barely at all?

Can you elaborate into the particulars of the situation?

[willekeurig]

I have an ILI friend who says "aww" and sometimes even smiles when he's drunk. not very often though.

[Galen]

My experience with ILIs and their emotionality is quite varied. I've known the more commonly-conceived stoic type who barely express anything other than the occasional chuckle at somebody doing something really stupid, but there's also the more socially aware kind that's much more comfortable interacting with people on a deeper interpersonal level. I guess the latter wouldn't really come off as more "emotional" per se than somewhat more inflectional and engaging.

[Korpsy Knievel]

Yes to both questions.

[mikemex]

ILIs are quite emotional. Perhaps not so much when they are alone but in social situations it can be quite obvious if you know where to look at. The mom of a friend of mine is ILI and she's like the head of an extended family; she's got a dark sense of humor and loves making everyone to laugh, although she tries to keep a poker face. She loves having the family having good time together.

ILIs are observers, as if they were recording life behind a glass. I spotted one in a museum recently that I visit from time to time with female friends. I'm sure she recalled me from the first time I was there and got shocked when I showed up alone with another woman. I guess she must have thought I was dating them or something, LOL. She thought I wasn't paying attention to her but I was and I noticed it.

[Ningyo]

Really depends on life phase and maturity. And, I'm going to get shot and stabbed, but also enneagram. My best friend is a 2w1 ILI and he's a good deal more emotionally expressive than any 5w4/5w6 ILI I've ever met. But there's always a certain self-consciousness to it past what seems to exist with other types. ILIs also seem to have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy when it comes to their feelings. They won't naturally shower you with their emotions unless you manage to piss them off pretty badly on a regular basis, but the more you let them trust you, the more open they are, and then their emotionality truly makes itself known.

Eta: Call attention to this when you're with the ILI and you're bound to get burned, though.

[FDG]

2w1 ILIs don´t exist.

[Ningyo]

2w1 ILIs don´t exist.

Oh stfu.

[InvisibleJim]

Oh stfu.

He isn't wrong these terms are antithesis.

I've spent many a day talking with 'ILI's' believe me, most of them are anything but. There are at least 3 people who are on this forum who used to self type ILI; their perspective changed once they understood what they were discussing.

[FDG]

No, they definitely don´t exist. The description of an E-type 2 completely contradicts every ILI description.

[Absurd]

Do you have any experience of the ILIs around you being emotionally expressive; or not so much, or barely at all?

Can you elaborate into the particulars of the situation?

ILIs are so emotional my bleak existence comes to an end simply by talking about it.

2w1 ILIs don´t exist.

They do. Just look at Maritsa.

[squirreltual]

After a lot of alcohol the other week my ILI friend ran up to me with a flying hug, yelling my name. It was unexpected to say the least. Typically he has to be drunk and often in elaborate fancy dress to express any emotion. Sometimes he will exaggerate his traits of emotional constipation and pedanticism as a way of causing mirth in others. It is subtle and done dryly however.

[InvisibleJim]

I always found this somewhat useful:

[ashlesha]

ive only typed one ili irl and the only way i can think to describe his level of emotional expression is "normal."

[JWC3]

I tend to view ILIs as plenty expressive. Not just amount but optimally expressive in a way. The way I sort of think about it is I'm very good at telling how people feel. Unnaturally good at it even. In fact you could liken my ability to glean personal information about the emotional worlds of others to a super power. A lot like super hearing. However the thing is life isn't a comic book, and if you have super hearing in real life, it's not so super really everyone just sounds like their shouting directly into your eardrum all the time. When I interact with ILIs I generally think to myself "You know, you speak at the perfect level. Plus since you're not shouting I can really appreciate those melodious tones, you really have a beautiful voice, did you know that? Lets make babies."


Disclaimer: The metaphor above does fall apart a bit in that I really don't think that the emotional expression of ILIs is subdued or quieter or in anyway less obvious or less apparent than that of any socionics type. Though most ILIs I've met and socionics both sort of support such a conclusion. I really don't mean to imply that ILIs feel or express any emotion any different than some ideological "real" person would. To me ILI expression is just a different beast entirely, but different people are still different people and what's true of one ILI may not be true of the others. I just really like that metaphor because I have super powers and live in a world littered with the sexy voices of various ILIs. Also I haven't been sleeping and am not feeling very serious at the moment.

[Korpsy Knievel]

I'm having a beer right now, not an emotion.

[Absurd]

I'm having a beer right now, not an emotion.

No you don't, not anymore. It's an emotion now.

[717495]

ILIs keep all their emotion in the eyebrows. Just ask maritsa.

[InvisibleJim]

ILIs keep all their emotion in the eyebrows. Just ask maritsa.

I'm ILI, confirmed.

[ashlesha]

in light of the individualism thread being full of emotional appeals and projections along with pictures and emoticons and catch phrases being used in lieu of substantive points, this thread is pretty ironic.

[InvisibleJim]

in light of the individualism thread being full of emotional appeals and projections along with pictures and emoticons and catch phrases being used in lieu of substantive points, this thread is pretty ironic.

Put a tampon in it.

[ashlesha]

Put a tampon in it.

[Mea]

what defines being emotionally expressive?
is it possible an ethical type can "see through" an ILI and thus conclude them as being emotionally expressive when they're not conscious of being so?
do people always do what emotional state they're in? if not, how then do we answer your question? =\

[Scapegrace]

Being good at parroting Natalie Imbruglia's facial expressions in this video:

[Gravolez]

Fe base people often find me lacking in emotional expressiveness.

[Korpsy Knievel]

Staunch opposition to the vitiating evils of altruism prevent my describing minutiae of the ILI experience for the benefit of confused Ti-doms.

[alklonth]

Each function has at least one dimension, which is experience. If function is able to gain experience then it does it.
As somebody above has already mention it - depends on age and maturity. Polr is able to learn, therefore young ILI is not the same as older ILI.

I had many problems with showing emotions and accepting emotions when I was younger and the problem is not so crucial for me anymore, however I tend to show them rather in front of people I know better and I still don't like when anyone is expecting that from me.