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Thread: ISFjs, your opinion on abortion, equal opportunity laws, etc

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    Default ISFjs, your opinion on abortion, equal opportunity laws, etc.

    What rights, in your opinion, should a person have?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    What rights, in your opinion, should a person have?
    I think it's evil, but I am very aware that it sets a bad precedent for the government to outlaw all abortions before say, the third trimester.

    Before the third trimester, I think the typical rape/incest rules would apply. Beyond the third trimester, the only justification would be medical.

    I don't see this as an issue of telling women what they can and cannot do with their bodies. I see it as an issue of protecting infants from having doctors murder them. So for example, I don't think a woman can rightfully be prohibited from jumping down some steps if she's pregnant, but I do think that doctors can be prohibited from killing the fetus for her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    So for example, I don't think a woman can rightfully be prohibited from jumping down some steps if she's pregnant, but I do think that doctors can be prohibited from killing the fetus for her.
    Wait... so you would have a woman kill her fetus by jumping down the stairs rather than by asking a doctor to do it?
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    Wait... so you would have a woman kill her fetus by jumping down the stairs rather than by asking a doctor to do it?
    I would have her not kill it at all, but if I had a choice, I would not make it easier for her by allowing a doctor to do it for her.

    But this only applies if she's killing the fetus/baby (depending on the trimester) just because she doesn't want it. That's fucking evil.

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    You're not an ISFj, dude... you are totally ENTp. You know how I know? Because I real ISFj tries to understand ethics; they do not REACT to it as you do.

    When someone mentions anything having to do with progressive ethics, you take a PoLR hit. It's pretty obvious.

    Can a real ISFj provide insight, please?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    You're not an ISFj, dude... you are totally ENTp. You know how I know? Because I real ISFj tries to understand ethics; they do not REACT to it as you do.

    When someone mentions anything having to do with progressive ethics, you take a PoLR hit. It's pretty obvious.

    Can a real ISFj provide insight, please?
    You're an idiot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    You're not an ISFj, dude... you are totally ENTp. You know how I know? Because I real ISFj tries to understand ethics; they do not REACT to it as you do.
    Trying to understand implies a thinking element. While feeling types are capable of it, ethics is typically not an area of trying to understand, but rather just knowing. Just as thinking just knows that 1+1=2.

    When someone mentions anything having to do with progressive ethics, you take a PoLR hit. It's pretty obvious.
    This is simply wrong. When you discuss ideas, it's thinking and not feeling. Ethics can be just as easily approached by Ti as it can by Fi.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    You're not an ISFj, dude... you are totally ENTp. You know how I know? Because I real ISFj tries to understand ethics; they do not REACT to it as you do.

    When someone mentions anything having to do with progressive ethics, you take a PoLR hit. It's pretty obvious.

    Can a real ISFj provide insight, please?
    IMO Beta ST fits much better.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    I think it's evil, but I am very aware that it sets a bad precedent for the government to outlaw all abortions before say, the third trimester.

    Before the third trimester, I think the typical rape/incest rules would apply. Beyond the third trimester, the only justification would be medical.

    I don't see this as an issue of telling women what they can and cannot do with their bodies. I see it as an issue of protecting infants from having doctors murder them. So for example, I don't think a woman can rightfully be prohibited from jumping down some steps if she's pregnant, but I do think that doctors can be prohibited from killing the fetus for her.
    Lingering inhibitions from Christianity? I thought you were better than that

    What's wrong with killing a semi-living semi-human if it's just going to be another unwanted who will probably end up on welfare draining tax dollars because it had a shitty upbringing because it's parents didn't love it and even if they did it eventually found out they tried to get an abortion but were denied and became dysfunctional anyways, and could have been one of hundreds of comparable abortions that would have been standard practice and given more doctors and nurses and abortion-tool-makers jobs?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Li
    Stopped reading right there.














    Just kidding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Lingering inhibitions from Christianity? I thought you were better than that

    What's wrong with killing a semi-living semi-human if it's just going to be another unwanted who will probably end up on welfare draining tax dollars because it had a shitty upbringing because it's parents didn't love it and even if they did it eventually found out they tried to get an abortion but were denied and became dysfunctional anyways, and could have been one of hundreds of comparable abortions that would have been standard practice and given more doctors and nurses and abortion-tool-makers jobs?
    This is horrible reasoning for killing a human child.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    This is horrible reasoning for killing a human child.
    It's not THE reason; there are scores of reasons for getting an abortion, and usually more than one in each scenario. The only reason to do it that matters is that a human wants to do it; their rationale has little to do with your attempt at formulating objective morality. The real "right or wrong" can only be found in the consequences of these actions, the precedents they set, and the long term impact on society, and when you put all of the pieces together, killing an unborn child is not only harmless, but usually a good idea overall.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    If there is a god, then aborting a fetus doesn't mean a thing: God just forwards the kid's soul to the next available body, because that would be the right thing to do. God and personal ambition... can work together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    It's not THE reason; there are scores of reasons for getting an abortion, and usually more than one in each scenario. The only reason to do it that matters is that a human wants to do it; their rationale has little to do with your attempt at formulating objective morality. The real "right or wrong" can only be found in the consequences of these actions, the precedents they set, and the long term impact on society, and when you put all of the pieces together, killing an unborn child is not only harmless, but usually a good idea overall.
    George, pull your head out of your ass. What you're saying is ridiculous and almost fails to warrant a response.

    You don't need a philosophical explanation for everything, and not killing babies is one of those things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Lingering inhibitions from Christianity? I thought you were better than that

    What's wrong with killing a semi-living semi-human if it's just going to be another unwanted who will probably end up on welfare draining tax dollars because it had a shitty upbringing because it's parents didn't love it and even if they did it eventually found out they tried to get an abortion but were denied and became dysfunctional anyways, and could have been one of hundreds of comparable abortions that would have been standard practice and given more doctors and nurses and abortion-tool-makers jobs?
    You're joking....right? You are....oh you're a funny one....
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    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

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    crazed is like an american krae....
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    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khamelion View Post
    You're joking....right? You are....oh you're a funny one....
    If he was kidding then it was well played.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khamelion View Post
    You're joking....right? You are....oh you're a funny one....
    Nope.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Nope.
    You watch too much House. You are never to be in charge of anyone's babies. It's decided.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    preach.
    /facepalm
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    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    What rights, in your opinion, should a person have?
    I don't think a person should have the right to kill a child for any old reason. You can argue that it is a fetus and not a person but it would be if you didn't kill it. I understand that in cases of rape or when the mother's life is at stake that a person might really want an abortion and that make sense to me. Getting knocked up again because you didnt feel like using birth control is not a good excuse.
    “No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov

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    Is it immoral to prefer a well-stated falsehood to a sloppily-worded truth? Not completely, I suppose, since a well-spokenness is in itself a good (or reflective of a good).

    Whether or not abortion is moral turns on two propositions: 1) "Fetuses" or "babies" or whatever you want to call them are human lives. 2) Human lives are of infinite or near-infinite value. Since I assent to premise two (though I recognize the word "value" as a metaphor) and consider premise one a possibility, I must assume that abortion is immoral.

    Re: XSIs and reactionary beliefs, I maintain that XSIs can be persuaded to hold new beliefs or new opinions or whatever via Ni. You just have to show them how something will happen as a result of some belief, or how one idea naturally arises from another due to the interaction of ideas, or make a big Ni story of historical sweep about it, etc. At least, that's my theory based on my understanding of socionics. I haven't really tried it out (at least not consciously and experimentally) irl.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    I'm so fucked up that I'm not sure I could even love my own kids. I'd always know that I only love them because it is necessary biologically. I'd probably resent them privately.
    .

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    lmao
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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