Someone else mentioned it the other day. Now I think so, for a number of reasons. vote ^
Someone else mentioned it the other day. Now I think so, for a number of reasons. vote ^
Okay.
I am clearly NOT a sensor in any shape or form. I LOVE the balance that OTHER sensors provide, but I cannot do this myself at all.
I know most of you hate 'mbti-izing socionics' but the general gist of what they are saying is true. I obviously am a natural intuit/intuitor? and not a natural sensor. Although I intuitively understand sensing shit, I just don't do this myself. If I am connected to the real earthy world it's always in a sort of distant, dreamy way.
You don't need 'existential evidence' for every goddamn thing. It's right there on everybody's noses if they bothered to look at how people *really* are and stopped being so faux-insightful. Just cause I can concretely state the obvious doesn't make me an isfp.
Your psychoanalizations are humorous to me though. But pry deeper cause you still haven't figured me out yet. =D (I'm not angry or offended by you, just....amused)
I see the same phenomenon in every post you make. No context, just implicitness. Infact you often ignore context. Actually, the argument you just made relies on Si. Tell me, what is Si? Do you know?
Maybe. But that would relate to my Te polr. Which isfp has too, but still doesn't argue in isfp's direction. It's just neutral.
lol a lot of neurotic impulse synapses to smoothe over I don't know where to begin.
Uh no it isn't. You just think it is cause that's the way you want things to be in your brain but okay. I just don't think that's socionics related at all.Just look at strrrng. He has Te polr, but he is hyper aware of context. context is very much related to the Ni/Se axis.
Yeah I am a serious person over all.Ok, Sam, you can describe what you do more elaborately than I can, but a great deal of your posts seem to be about raising the alarm about something. This seems quite decidedly Beta NF over Alpha SF. How anyone could see you as reinforcing a positive environment for free emotional expression is quite beyond me. It's that "positive environment" that gets me so much; you often see the SEIs on the board chipping in with jokes or humor to lighten the mood, while your posts are always Srs Bsns soapboxing about your thoughts on somethingorother.
First off, Dolphin's type is still up for debate. She's either isfp or esfp or infp but nothing is certain yet. And yes, Dolphin and I understand each other emotionally really well, so we are close.here are blogs written by a known ISFp. I can only say it's just like B&Ds writing. Name a feature of B&Ds writing, and you can see it in here.
I don't like 100% serious and negative and I don't like 100% playful or mediator-like either, I like both depending on my mood. If You can't tell which is which for me that's a combination of you not understanding me or some sort of emotional/psychological distance that we have. And there's nothing 'perceived' about my infractions, gays are not socially equal in the country I was raised in that's an objective truth. but I understand that it is always easier for everybody to side with the offender. =) I have my own mixed feelings about what true 'equality' entails when everybody is different, but Yeah I do like talking about it and its important to me.he's actually... always, advocating a positive environment for free emotional expression (typically for the gays), and his alarms center around those ideals (and perceived infractions). lol.
if u take that as emo complaining not much I can say only thats thats wrong and ur just sadly misunderstanding. =/
the problem is ur trying to use ur mind too much, you're too emotionally apart from me right now to really understand me or feel the raw energy of my posts. its okay though but you are just.....way off base, sorry crazed. we're just gonna have to talk about something where we emotionally click. yay male bonding.anyway, have you ever seen dolphins posts? dolphin is ISFp, and her posts are biting.
if we're reducing Si to positive environments, his throat fucking fantasy rants could be seen the same way
...
Last edited by energystar; 03-01-2010 at 08:07 PM.
I've actually considered this recently, and think it's fairly plausible.
Yeah, it is. Si has its own context, but Ni is more concerned with refining the contextual relevancy of ideas (which entails isolating the Se variables). I can't say that I really see this behavior as prominent with Sam, given things like 'the16typesadventures' and such, which seem to point towards a more open, exploratory disposition with ideas.
Yeah. And ISFps can promote emotions for change; alphas are the initial components of inciting things; they just do it in an open-ended way. One could easily construe b&d's innocently aggressive rants as an alpha finding faults in the current system and aspiring to higher ideals.
I also agree that the way he has responded to you in this thread is indicative of something.
4w3-5w6-8w7
Not impossible, IMO. He has a very explicit way of confronting stereotypes; his method is to expose commonalities between his own perceptions and those that he attributes to the "big Other," and to try to reconcile them with a more ideal approach.
He also has a somewhat blithe attitude of wanting to achieve lofty ideals, to "have his cake and eat it too," so to speak, and speaks about the conflicts inherent in trying to do so; Betas are generally quick emphasize their own personal compromises or sacrifices, almost as badges of honor or objects of dark amusement. He has a sadness to him, an overtly expressed loss of innocence, if you will, that makes me think more of Alpha than Beta; Betas tend to under-emphasize any kind of innocence they might have, and let slip their "fall" in a more dark manner, almost like they are admitting to repression on the sly or something.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm nois bullets&doves ISFp?
INFj
9w1 sp/sx
for those of you who's opinion is not worth anything.. that is to say, you have nothing to contribute, please use the my opinion is not worth anything option.
I have mixed feelings about this. I do love Sam a lot and feel a great affinity for him, and I feel that the writing comparison was strangely apt. However I don't really see him as having Si, or the S dichotomy. In my experience there is definitely a distinction you can make between S and N, even if it seems rather rudimentary and MBTI-ish.
I see the differences between him and some of the INFps here as having to do with language and each person's corresponding faculty with it. There's an observable difference when people become accustomed to employing language with great precision, rather than embellishment or seemingly inadequate attempts to establish their abstract ideas. I've seen IxFps with undeveloped (and sometimes even developed) language skills floundering a bit in their own spit, metaphorically, and I see Sam's general style as an example of this tendency. I see his concrete references and word choice as more of a product of his exposure to the references he's been exposed to/education than because he's ISFp. ie, you can't communicate in words or argument styles that you don't know or haven't been exposed to in some form.
Strangling people contextually and rigidly like you were in a mental fistfight while dissecting every sentence because you can't deign to try to understand someone's general meaning is not a hallmark of Ni, it's something any type can engage in when they are locked in a rigid thought/communication pattern they can't/won't get out of. I can think of plenty of INFps who don't engage in that sort of thing, krae being a good example of a similar INFp to Sam, and of which the language phenomenon I attempted to describe is readily observable. silverchris, Baby, redbaron, glamourama, Scarlettlux, and Starfall are also examples of INFps that I can think of off the top of my head that don't do this. Just because you happen to have personal intellectual resonance with strrrng doesn't mean everyone is going to develop the communication style you've chosen.
And your brother...now he's ISFp, oh the revelations? Why are you always relegating a type to him? To try to justify his existence and/or his relation to you in meaningful terms, taking comfort in the fact that people make a bit more sense with a reference point like Socionics? He sounds pretty crazy regardless. Take into account that some people just aren't going to make very good examples of type. Your brother's behavior is not going to suddenly make a shitload of sense because you decided to slap a type on him, unless your perception of types is vastly disorted and fucked up. I know you are capable of more honesty with yourself which is why this is annoying. I'm sure you know and can see clearly that Gul deals with his inability to relate to people and insecure self image by thinking up a world where a 16th of the population loves to emotionally accommodate him while he's going around passively attention whoring, when in reality it's a lot more complicated than that, and no, Si is not all about him. I am confident that you are perfectly capable of relegating that example/approach/phenomenon to a wider viewpoint with a myriad of people, and notice its downfalls, so don't bullshit me that that's about Ni/Se either. I think we all need to step back sometimes and stop justifying so many of our life problems with various Socionics principles. I'm not saying I've never done this, either, because I have, but it's ultimately stupid. Don't act as if suddenly adjusting your typing of your brother and Sam or whoever you're retyping as ISFp will do much to change your existence, are you expecting to suddenly win the lottery?
I will scream if you dissect this sentence by sentence. Do not attempt to pass over my meaning. Do not become a little bitch to get out of it. Do not mock me. I've been operating on the knowledge that you are genuine, if fucked up, which is a lot more than I can say for a lot of people, and thus I am addressing you so. I also feel an affinity to you because you have blood coming out of your ass, and the feeling of desperation you seem to exhibit at times mirrors my own. I do respect you, in spite of your scavenger qualities, so don't use your reply as an excuse to bullshit me, or I will discard it. I don't want to compete with you, I want you to understand. You have bitch slapped me before for which I was later grateful, and I want to return the favor. It would be a bleeding shame if this was all a wasted effort. So please tell me why your opinion is worth anything.
Last edited by crazedrat; 01-01-2010 at 04:43 AM.
lol @ isolating a sentence then saying it's implicit.
if you want a better explanation on why I think sam is ISFp, refer to earlier posts.
this is the clearest and most important part of your post above. It represents my position well, and then contrasts it with your position. I will repost it:
To fully appreciate the point, I think you need to acknowledge the concept of degree. All types will have to use both forms of meaning to some degree in constructing a sentence. If we can't get past that part, I don't think we'll ever get anywhere. On the same note, all people will have to use both sensing and intuition in order do anything in life, even to get up and take a piss. Yet I am still liberal enough to assign a person a type at all. It's really the same concept. And I see B&D overwhelmingly emphasize the one form of meaning over the other. (Let us remember this was not my only reason for typing him ISFp.).
Beyond that, I can only say the two forms of meaning I'm discussing are legitimate and correlate with the functions, and also with peoples types. If you don't buy it, and this is where you're really hung up, we can discuss that part in detail.. if you show a genuine interest.
Last edited by crazedrat; 01-01-2010 at 06:25 AM.
Aw, lol. I love you too. They're just going to think our affection for each other is some sort of isfp-isfp identical relationship though.I do love Sam a lot and feel a great affinity for him, and I feel that the writing comparison was strangely apt.
Yeah! This is exactly what I was thinkin.' Extroverts get energy from other people, sensors get energy from outside objects. I don't get energy from other people or outside objects. I get energy from my own thought processes and others' ideas and neon gay inner world shit.However I don't really see him as having Si, or the S dichotomy. In my experience there is definitely a distinction you can make between S and N, even if it seems rather rudimentary and MBTI-ish.
I dunno. I'm still leaning towards IEI-Fe for now; the "Alpha half of Beta" or whatever.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
He means that B&D could possibly be viewed as leaning more toward Alpha than Gamma in terms of where his personality lies within Beta, due to his assumption that B&D is a Fe-leading IEI rather than an Ni-leading one, because Fe is also an element of the Alpha quadra....amirite?
On some level from within a Beta construct I can see where this view would make sense, but he's still going to use Fe in a more Beta manner than an Alpha would use Fe. Yes, I know that was vague.
I'm happy with B&D as an IEI-Fe, it makes sense in relation to his interactions with everyone else here as I see them, as well as his more personal posts about his inner self.
His values are clearly Beta > Alpha.
Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .
So much for this being a topic about bullets&doves.![]()
That's a fairly accurate, unbiased description of what I am about but I don't think you really proved anything either way.Not impossible, IMO. He has a very explicit way of confronting stereotypes; his method is to expose commonalities between his own perceptions and those that he attributes to the "big Other," and to try to reconcile them with a more ideal approach.
He also has a somewhat blithe attitude of wanting to achieve lofty ideals, to "have his cake and eat it too," so to speak, and speaks about the conflicts inherent in trying to do so; Betas are generally quick emphasize their own personal compromises or sacrifices, almost as badges of honor or objects of dark amusement. He has a sadness to him, an overtly expressed loss of innocence, if you will, that makes me think more of Alpha than Beta; Betas tend to under-emphasize any kind of innocence they might have, and let slip their "fall" in a more dark manner, almost like they are admitting to repression on the sly or something.
Okay let's put it this way: How do I dual-seek Ne?
Four posts in a row so I'll let others respond before commenting again.
Oh dude. No fucking way. Not a chance. Totally love him though ^_^
Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .
BUT! You're Austrailian. Types go the other way round down under don't they?
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
Do you even understand what I wrote? I'm not trying to be condescending, but this response is completely irrelevant to what I described about Ni and Si.
And what is this idea about sensors deriving stimulation from external objects? Sounds like a massive stereotype.
It isn't that Si blindly accepts "ubiquitousness of stimuli"; it's that they assume that whatever perception arises, is integrally tied to concrete conditions, and thus represents something about those conditions; Ni isn't about concrete conditions, it focuses on potential perceptions that can reframe the conditions. Si can obviously change, as it is dynamic, and encompass many aspects of situations; but my point was that it is always a gradual assimilation of internal sensory perceptions and their relationships, whereas Ni is focused on abstract representations of internal perceptions.
Now you're misconstruing what I said. Si isn't simply some one-dimensional lens of perception.Si may probe or play with how others react to the same thing, but I doubt you can say that people using Si are prone to expecting everyone to react the same way to what they perceive as real and impactful simply because they accept the objective existence of what brings it out in them.
But if Si observes a reaction in something, it will only assume its relevancy within the conditions that it occurred. Ne works with this because it finds latent qualities within the conditions and develops a picture of how the object of perception could manifest. So, it establishes a set of potential variables that are filtered through the Si context.
No shit. And Si very much can establish an encompassing picture about someone by seeing how they react across a breadth of different scenarios; the point is that their perceptions will always be related to the concrete conditions in those situations.Hell, it's not like you've never heard a song and thought it was awesome then recommended it to a friend and they were all 'meh' about it. There's probably nothing that resonates with everybody. You've got to watch them, listen in, and find out what affects them. People have a similar basis but it's the nuances that are interesting to dig out.
4w3-5w6-8w7
Having known ISFps, INFps, and people like BulletsandDoves... I can say without reservation that there's no chance in hell he's ISFp or Alpha.
Have you read his stories..? They're basically love-letters to Se. ("...And then so-and-so beat me with his big penis," lol etc.)
Have you observed the people that he says he relates with..? Predominately beta.
After what he's contributed to this forum, for anyone here to think that bulletsanddoves values Si and Ne--frankly, it speaks to either poor observational skills, or poor understanding of the Socionics personality types.
I sense that this is another case of people distorting various aspects of Socionics, because they do not have the correct benchmarks for each Sociotype. That is, if they really knew what an ISFp was--or for that matter, what a beta NF was--they wouldn't be bringing this up.
The only other viable personality type for Sam is ENFj.
Last edited by JuJu; 01-01-2010 at 05:24 PM.
It's not so much that I think he's SEI as it is that I don't think he values Se.