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Thread: Childlike types sex

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    Default Childlike types sex

    have any one of you had sex with an infantile? how was it and what is the difference compared with the aggressors or victims? what is the infantile style and how does it work well with the caregivers? etc etc

    I myself am infantile IEE and do not like and do not identify with word "infantile," I am not childish in the bedroom. so what is the story here? what is others' input?

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    You don't identify with the 'infantile' dichotomy because it doesn't exist, Gulenko's erotic attitudes are bullshit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SenoritaC View Post
    have any one of you had sex with an infantile? how was it and what is the difference compared with the aggressors or victims? what is the infantile style and how does it work well with the caregivers? etc etc
    Really awkward pretending to feed him just so he'll open his mouth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    You don't identify with the 'infantile' dichotomy because it doesn't exist, Gulenko's erotic attitudes are bullshit.
    no, infantile, agressor, caregiver and the victim types you think do not exist, at all or only you mean they do not exist only in bedroom??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    Really awkward pretending to feed him just so he'll open his mouth.
    this is joke i think, yes? i am hoping is joke!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SenoritaC View Post
    have any one of you had sex with an infantile? how was it and what is the difference compared with the aggressors or victims? what is the infantile style and how does it work well with the caregivers? etc etc

    I myself am infantile IEE and do not like and do not identify with word "infantile," I am not childish in the bedroom. so what is the story here? what is others' input?
    like B&D i am not a big believer in erotic attitudes. and i hate the word infantile too. who would want to connect sex w infantile. it brings forth images of, yes daddy do it to me or some fucked up shit like that.

    if i try to understand it, what i understand is that the so called infantile has Si in the superid block. esp with the dual seeking function, people tend to be child like, no matter what information element is found there. the person has this glowing i'm-not-worthy respect for persons with that information element in the leading position.

    so if you are infantile you value Si but you can't really do it. so Si amongst other things is about internal sensations and balance. so if the person isn't that good at that, but admires it, it kind of places them in awe of anybody who can safely make their insides feel good. the keys are safe and feel good.

    the kind of person who can do this is somebody with Si in their ego block. somebody who is a master of sensations and who makes people feel safe. by way of contrast, theoretically, somebody with Se in the ego block wouldn't feel safe to the infantile person. somebody with Ni theoretically would be in a neutral position. another infantile would feel like the blind leading the blind.

    so i guess all in all feeling sexually safe is important to infantiles. and getting with somebody who really knows the body and what makes it feel good.

    having said all that, i wonder if this doesn't apply to everybody. or not. maybe Se/Ni people like a lack of safety, that's a turn on to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    having said all that, i wonder if this doesn't apply to everybody. or not. maybe Se/Ni people like a lack of safety, that's a turn on to them.
    No not at all, I feel the most "safe" when I am romantically with an Aggressor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    They don't exist because our real erotic attitudes are more complex then that. Sometimes I want to be in charge and be the top and other times I want to be the bottom and be pursued. and sometimes I want to be a 'bossy bottom' and other times I want to be a top that is more sensitive and caring and 'giving.'

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    i do appreciate these answers, thankyou guys for the replies here. i was thinking before is silly but then thought maybe I am only one who thinks this. now i am wishing people stop making these silly assumptions in the socionics about infantile or aggressor or whatever, is specialy interesting bulletsanddoves is saying about wants to switch roles, i have also been thinking this is more common

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    so if you are infantile you value Si but you can't really do it. so Si amongst other things is about internal sensations and balance. so if the person isn't that good at that, but admires it, it kind of places them in awe of anybody who can safely make their insides feel good. the keys are safe and feel good.
    Make their insides feel good? Oh dear.

    But yes, this is spot on, I'd think. I think especially for Delta NF males, we're incredibly uncomfortable with our sexuality...ies...whatever. For sure, something I'd need is someone who can ease me past my rather overwhelming physical reservations.

    Anyway, as a total tangent, "erotic attitude" is a bit of a loose translation: "erotic" as in "with respect to love", not the way we as English natives would traditionally read that word. (Also, one simple and fairly straight-forward consequence of this is that the romance styles can manifest loosely in non-romantic relationships to varying degrees). Infantiles like to show their partner the bizarre and unexpected side of life, Caregivers want to look after their partner and make sure they feel good, etc, etc. It's not necessarily anything to do with perverse and twisted things with rocket-handled plastic spoons and diapers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    (Also, one simple and fairly straight-forward consequence of this is that the romance styles can manifest loosely in non-romantic relationships to varying degrees). Infantiles like to show their partner the bizarre and unexpected side of life, Caregivers want to look after their partner and make sure they feel good, etc, etc. It's not necessarily anything to do with perverse and twisted things with rocket-handled plastic spoons and diapers.
    This, yes
    The "erotic roles" are not so much about "erotic" but more how the groups interact. Ni+Se and Ne+Si interaction is quite different, regardless if it's in a romantic or platonic relationship
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    Quote Originally Posted by SenoritaC View Post
    have any one of you had sex with an infantile? how was it and what is the difference compared with the aggressors or victims? what is the infantile style and how does it work well with the caregivers? etc etc

    I myself am infantile IEE and do not like and do not identify with word "infantile," I am not childish in the bedroom. so what is the story here? what is others' input?
    I've had sex with an IEE-Ne, and she was very demanding. So she needed a caregiver, cause I felt like a slave doing things for her on command.

    The childish aspect of infantile is that they have a need to be admired and I guess, cared for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    The "erotic roles" are not so much about "erotic" but more how the groups interact. Ni+Se and Ne+Si interaction is quite different, regardless if it's in a romantic or platonic relationship
    exactly.

    And I like to add that although I had relatively large experience with socionics and relationships, it took me a great while before I could see what was meant with these roles. They do exist, and are a very good discovery of Gulenko.

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    gentle, tender, etc.
    SEE

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    awkward title ftw
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    [IMG]http://forumserver.t***lustwo.com/customavatars/avatar11903_4.gif[/IMG]
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    hahaha

    maritsa made a funny

    +1 for imagery
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    Really awkward pretending to feed him just so he'll open his mouth.
    like a mother bird regurgitates her food for her baby bird.
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    Reviving this since I’m curious what people have to say.

    When I’m close to an SO, I like to become playful, obedient, and trusting. I want to feel cared for and loved, and express my own feelings by dedication and enthusiasm.

    In bed I like to be guided and told what to do; making my partner happy makes me feel happy — like a child receiving the approval of their parent, I suppose. I’m not naturally inclined to sensuality, so I don’t have a good “intuitive” understanding of what feels best for my partner, which is why I prefer to be guided. I might also do unexpected things to surprise my partner.

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    I had a sort of epiphany recently that most infantile types probably find caregiving/infantile erotic because they lacked that energy coming from their parents, so they have less gross associations with it with their actual parents compared to people of other erotic styles.

    It took me 6 years of fucking caretaker/infantile types (all 3 LTRs I’ve ever had were with them; last 2 with infantiles) to come to this data point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I had a sort of epiphany recently that most infantile types probably find caregiving/infantile erotic because they lacked that energy coming from their parents, so they have less gross associations with it with their actual parents compared to people of other erotic styles.

    It took me 6 years of fucking caretaker/infantile types (all 3 LTRs I’ve ever had were with them; last 2 with infantiles) to come to this data point.
    What seems gross about it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    What seems gross about it?
    Gross associations with parents. Incest/pedophilia.

    Do you seriously not know? I even said the former in my post. Did you not read it or did you not connect bow associations with parents are gross?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Gross associations with parents. Incest/pedophilia.

    Do you seriously not know? I even said it in my post.
    No. At least I know the name "infantile" or "childlike" gives that impression, but I'm not sure what people's actual experiences with it seem like to them. Could you elaborate on what about the infantile style gives you that impression?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ania View Post
    kinks are separate from erotic attitudes; EAs probably shouldn't taken anywhere close to literally for the majority of people. I have interacted with a 'caregiver' type for example, who does not relate to any of them, saying that he wanted "equality in everything, always." I am pretty sure that's what most people want so perhaps Gulenko's descriptions just aren't the best to portray that.
    There’s a difference between what people say how they act and want (especially after only 10 seconds of introspection in a spontaneous conversation) and how they actually do. I agree that EAs are separate from being to the point of kinks, but there’s a slight overlap in attitudes there, like in manners of expression, e.g. how you described yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    No. At least I know the name "infantile" or "childlike" gives that impression, but I'm not sure what people's actual experiences with it seem like to them. Could you elaborate on what about the infantile style gives you that impression?
    Nothing, just the name.

    Did you even read and comprehend my post? I’m saying that IME these types probably DON’T harbor gross associations in their minds when they act coquettish/babylike/caring/nurturing etc. OTOH I and others who are Se/Ni may have more gross associations with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Gross associations with parents. Incest/pedophilia.

    Do you seriously not know? I even said the former in my post. Did you not read it or did you not connect bow associations with parents are gross?
    So. Aggressor-Victim shit is sane? It's totally not rape? Ok r tard

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    Tbh I really identify with the infantile description, and it's something that doesn't apply ONLY to the bedroom. I usually tend to get sort of "attached" fast to caregiver types and want to "follow" them around or shit. I feel some sort of safety around them, which is very, very gay. And many of them i've seen tend to find my quirky behavior amusing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ania View Post
    I suspected as much but I took at him at his word. Just to respect it I guess.
    I never just respect people for no reason, especially not if I think they’re just talking out of their asses LOL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PissholeMan View Post
    So. Aggressor-Victim shit is sane? It's totally not rape? Ok r tard
    No. And that’s why u keep asking for it

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    Quote Originally Posted by PissholeMan View Post
    So. Aggressor-Victim shit is sane? It's totally not rape? Ok r tard
    You should read my post before that though.

    So basically I think erotic attitudes happen because people lack negative associations to them. I think infantiles become infantiles because they lacked a positive nurturing energy in their upbringing maybe. Therefore they don’t have associations with it to parents, making it non-incestuous.

    These observations were based on 3 LTRs and some other casual relations I’ve had with caretaker/infantile types, and conversations with many many people of all types.

    Same pattern/logic would apply for caregiver, aggressor and victim styles.

    All you annoying infantiles misinterpreting my posts up my ass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I had a sort of epiphany recently that most infantile types probably find caregiving/infantile erotic because they lacked that energy coming from their parents, so they have less gross associations with it with their actual parents compared to people of other erotic styles.
    There’s a video of Gulenko with subs where he states his assumption that the whole of Alpha actually is raised under a rather passive style of parenting (orders were given not in the imperative, for example). We’re spoiled brats. So possibly it’s not that infantiles lack positive energy (much more serious would be the case of victims, then) but just that Alphas dislike more forceful interaction, so caregivers and infantiles go together. And this is without touching the ‘born this way’ theory.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusal View Post
    There’s a video of Gulenko with subs where he states his assumption that the whole of Alpha actually is raised under a rather passive style of parenting (orders were given not in the imperative, for example). We’re spoiled brats. So possibly it’s not that infantiles lack positive energy (much more serious would be the case of victims, then) but just that Alphas dislike more forceful interaction, so caregivers and infantiles go together. And this is without touching the ‘born this way’ theory.
    It’s just not possible that there are no alphas raised under aggressive or abusive environments. @FreelancePoliceman Has spoken before about how he has some kind of overly aggressive abusive Se dad.

    There is also a contradiction there. Is it because they were raised a certain way? Or because they inherently don’t like it (that would be more like “born that way”)? Can’t have the former reason paired together with simply “disliking” it if you’re setting up a dichotomy, which I don’t truly think it is. I do think it’s a bit of both.

    I do think it’s right though that maybe some were spoiled into those behaviors and like it inherently too, rather than lacking that energy. But I think there are many who lacked it, specifically their “dual” energy in a positive healthy way, with those who “seek” it more strongly especially. It’s basic dynamics of supply/demand.

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    If Gulenko said that he's certainly wrong. I know alphas raised in abusive environments.

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    maybe Se/Ni people like a lack of safety, that's a turn on to them.


    Not really no, at least not me personally. I think safety is paramount in any sexual relationship that's actually going to work without it being some unhealthy form of abuse. The 'I'm not really safe thing' is just a fluffy make-believe fantasy that you can't put any real value in - the real safetyness is always there or it doesn't work and is of course, illegal lol. Again that's why professional bdsm sites have things like consent forms and lots of legal documents etc.

    I think ppl misunderstand this about me sometimes because the sex I like can be pretty 'out there' and politically incorrect etc. Or they're getting off on playing some power play game pretending they don't have any sexual desires themselves because they crave a Te/political career position- which is a type of thing I'll notice often and will probably call them out on it anyway.

    It's not exactly 'nice' in the sense too much niceness would be too boring, not an erotic turn-on for me- I fit being a "victim" in that sense but if taken too literally it makes it sound like I'm okay with real sexual abuse which is retarded and Betas get unfairly tarred and feathered with that thing too much. ((granted it doesn't help when the obvious criminal male ESTp does actually commit a real sex offense lol))

    I just think it's easy to pay attention to that thing because of how obvious it is, not necessarily that Betas do it 'more often because Betas are evil.'

    I contradictally and ironically like tons of safety but in a way that's not PC or boring/nice/normal/Karen-y where the safetyness exists so naturally but you don't really make a big deal out to it or something.

    Why would I want to feel like a real victim? That's a horrible feeling... there's nothing much 'empowering' about it except for I guess ironically. Like in Delta relationships I've noticed, everything they do is about safety in such an obvious way to me that it feels suffocating. I don't know how the person can even independently breath being that way. I need more space or something. The safetyness is definitely there, just has to be more subtle w/me just like with them I guess, the open discussions about desires needs to be a lot more subtle/understated.





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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    I contradictally and ironically like tons of safety but in a way that's not PC or boring/nice/normal/Karen-y where the safetyness exists so naturally but you don't really make a big deal out to it or something.
    Same
    but if taken too literally it makes it sound like I'm okay with real sexual abuse which is retarded and Betas get unfairly tarred and feathered with that thing too much. ((granted it doesn't help when the obvious criminal male ESTp does actually commit a real sex offense lol))

    I just think it's easy to pay attention to that thing because of how obvious it is, not necessarily that Betas do it 'more often because Betas are evil.'
    Yeah...

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    There is also a contradiction there. Is it because they were raised a certain way? Or because they inherently don’t like it (that would be more like “born that way”)? Can’t have the former reason paired together with simply “disliking” it if you’re setting up a dichotomy, which I don’t truly think it is. I do think it’s a bit of both.
    Not really; only if I said they don’t like it because they ‘were born that way’, which I didn’t. I have no stakes in this so either is fine. But I do wonder then what would be the origins of caretakers: exposed some level of affection so they didn’t turn out infantiles but yet, even though they got it, they are not grossed out by that type of interaction? So the only explanation begins to fit is that, “of course” caretakers were somehow taught, and this is when it starts to sound like backward explaning. Victims are another case: they were shown affection in the most important years of their development, so they didn’t become infantiles, but they still got the message that they were unwanted?

    But I will give you that you spent more time consideing infantiles than I did. So.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusal View Post
    Not really; only if I said they don’t like it because they ‘were born that way’, which I didn’t. I have no stakes in this so either is fine. But I do wonder then what would be the origins of caretakers: exposed some level of affection so they didn’t turn out infantiles but yet, even though they got it, they are not grossed out by that type of interaction? So the only explanation begins to fit is that, “of course” caretakers were somehow taught, and this is when it starts to sound like backward explaning. Victims are another case: they were shown affection in the most important years of their development, so they didn’t become infantiles, but they still got the message that they were unwanted?

    But I will give you that you spent more time consideing infantiles than I did. So.
    @Rusal, your's is an interesting theory. Personally, I believe that the Erotic Attitudes are the incidental result of some of certain styles of information processing (because EA and Sociotype are so well correlated), rather than being a result of childhood teaching or environment, but my argument might be circular. Which came first, the attitudes towards situations, or the situations which formed attitudes?

    There might be something to your ideas.

    I've read that a person's enneatype might be determined by some characteristics of their parents. I don't know if this is true or not, because all LII's seem to be e5, and what are the odds that all LII's have the same parents? But it makes an interesting theory: http://pstypes.blogspot.com/2010/01/...types-law.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusal View Post
    Not really; only if I said they don’t like it because they ‘were born that way’, which I didn’t. I have no stakes in this so either is fine. But I do wonder then what would be the origins of caretakers: exposed some level of affection so they didn’t turn out infantiles but yet, even though they got it, they are not grossed out by that type of interaction? So the only explanation begins to fit is that, “of course” caretakers were somehow taught, and this is when it starts to sound like backward explaning. Victims are another case: they were shown affection in the most important years of their development, so they didn’t become infantiles, but they still got the message that they were unwanted?

    But I will give you that you spent more time consideing infantiles than I did. So.
    Choosing one reason to explain implies the absence of the other (inherent preference, which you did mention as I had bolded), and saying “either is okay” (rather than “both are okay” or something) here again would imply a dichotomy setup. Even if it’s not what you think you think, it’s basically what you’re saying.

    As for the nuances, I think there can be many different scenarios. I don’t think caregivers or any type even necessarily need to be exposed to any positive affection, nor do I think the degree or pattern of affection itself translates to styles. What I think is the styles of the negative and positive energy/affection (from environment) specifically correspond to styles (in addition to innate preferences) in outcome of the person.

    Also, I didn’t just consider lol. I drew from my actual experiences first. With caretakers and other types too. E.g. caretakers I’ve known lacked or missed a “little brother/sister”-like presence in their lives, usually through never having had a younger sibling or from not getting to spend enough time with them, or their relationship with them going sour.
    Last edited by sbbds; 10-31-2020 at 06:52 AM.

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    I was gonna write up a whole thing since my parents are duals (LII and ESE, but why would I do that here idk) but erotic attitudes =/= kinks (like DDLG or MDLB) or childhood patterns afaik. Worth nothing that the attitudes in Alpha duality and Delta duality are usually quite different. Alpha duality seems to want more equality in relationships while being overbearing on both sides, sometimes so much so to the point of discord, and Delta duality does seem to take on a more teacher/student dynamic while respecting independence and emotional boundaries. The archetypes regarding Delta duality still hold an age gap and tenderness, which is in line with infantile and caregiver.


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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Choosing one reason to explain implies the absence of the other (inherent preference, which you did mention as I had bolded), and saying “either is okay” (rather than “both are okay” or something) here again would imply a dichotomy setup. Even if it’s not what you think you think, it’s basically what you’re saying.
    A dichotomy it can be; what it’s not is a contradiction.


    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    As for the nuances, I think there can be many different scenarios. I don’t think caregivers or any type even necessarily need to be exposed to any positive affection, nor do I think the degree or pattern of affection itself translates to styles. What I think is the styles of the negative and positive energy/affection (from environment) specifically correspond to styles (in addition to innate preferences) in outcome of the person.
    Fair enough. You seem to attribute the product to a lack. Victims must be on par with infantiles on parental neglect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Rusal, your's is an interesting theory. Personally, I believe that the Erotic Attitudes are the incidental result of some of certain styles of information processing (because EA and Sociotype are so well correlated), rather than being a result of childhood teaching or environment, but my argument might be circular. Which came first, the attitudes towards situations, or the situations which formed attitudes?
    Yes, erotic attitudes seem like a continuation of yourself carried to a different sphere. Which is why when someone says that a person developed into an infantile because of hug deprivation, they are also implying that they have Ti in the ego for the same reason, for example. A propos of your question, socionists have been sneaky about it but the scale is tipped in favor of attitudes first, unless an accentuation of Ti elevates a person’s nose ridge during their life-span and some ENTjs get the sqaure jaw from all that clenching caused by deficient employees.
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