Quadra Dynamics

[strrrng]

bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla etc

lol. Your avatar makes me think of a less absent-minded version of hitta.

[717495]

If this is ever going to be about my type, it requires an argument, not just an opinion. Opinions don't last.

[Nexus]

lol. Your avatar makes me think of a less absent-minded version of hitta.

hmmm....

[strrrng]

That could be a caricature style of hitta's.

[Nexus]

the16types just passed 6 x 10⁵ posts! great work everyone!

That could be a caricature style of hitta's.

I'm leaving, see you later

[Gilly]

If this is ever going to be about my type, it requires an argument, not just an opinion. Opinions don't last.

Arguments are just transient manifestations arising from opinions. You've had threads, seen arguments; just let it go.

[717495]

Consider that ILI is an actual type for just a moment, and understand why those other information elements exist, that they're not just empty black spaces for you to fill in later, whenever you feel like it, or whenever more of your ILI associations come along to show you what Fe PoLR is, and Fi HA is. You seem to have a limited concept of Fe PoLR and Fi HA, probably Ni paired with Te, lot of the differences between real life Alpha NTs and Gamma NTs, and a lot of the similarities between them too. You're just faking your way along, trying to put me in my place, without seeing who I really am and what my sociotype really is, and how I differ so much value-wise from the other types. Honestly, stop doing this for your own sake, and just try to understand and begin seeing the differences that other's are seeing. Just back away for a glimpse of fresh air, and rejoin. There is no argument. There can only be an argument if you decide to understand.

I just want to help. You just need a new method. For your own good, you just need to reexplore the topic. I just want you to see, and for things to be clearer, and for the tension between us to be relieved, and be cool with each other and our type decisions.

[Gilly]

Don't you realize that it is impossible for you to change my mind? The only way my opinion on your type could conceivably change would be if I met you in real life and you were drastically different than I imagine. You are a fixed entity in my mind; I have a grasp of you, and there is nothing you can do to worm your way out. If you don't agree with me, too bad.

[717495]

Don't you realize that it is impossible for you to change my mind? The only way my opinion on your type could conceivably change would be if I met you in real life and you were drastically different than I imagine. You are a fixed entity in my mind; I have a grasp of you, and there is nothing you can do to worm your way out. If you don't agree with me, too bad.

Perhaps you're correct about that. I just hope that things can eventually be different. Maybe working on an argument for my type will allow you to ask me questions and understand more about me in my depth.

[Nexus]

wondering if maybe I'm ESE

[Krig the Viking]

Where the distinction lies is that internal statics of fields would include passion, emotion, moods, etc. These are just more firmly grounded and subjective, by definition.

You have to realize that the code triad is an analysis of the IMs, not visa versa. This structure did not come about from a random internal model, but one made by observation. The real difference between something like Fe and Fi is far more dynamical than what 3 structural terms can represent. It is a description in of itself.

The IEs are simply categories into which we place different types of information about the world. The "code triad" is simply a way of precisely defining what those categories are, and which information belongs in what category. "Passion" is a state of emotional excitement, therefore it belongs in the "internal dynamics of objects" category.

The "internal statics of fields" category contains things like preference, like/dislike, value, etc. These things can inspire passion -- if you strongly like or prefer something, it will probably stir up passionate emotions within you -- but passion itself is a form of Fe.

[inumbra]

It's not just external emotion, though; not by any means. It's about placing an emphasis on natural reactions to situations, an assumption that our emotions tell us something about how we should live. It's an almost naturalistic perspective, in a way; more partial, holistic, less starkly practical than Te/Fi. Ever seen the movie Equilibrium? Classic example of an unhealthy Delta society being overturned by a Beta coup.

I personally saw Equilibrium as Beta all the way. The feelingless society had been built on the idea that it's not okay for people to have any personal feelings about anyone or anything. The thing that would betray them if they did is that they might outwardly show some sign of how they felt (Fe), as if they could manage to not show they had feelings then no one would necessarily know that they did (although their actions would also betray it, eventually)... but it wasn't the Fe that I thought was being most targeted (it's just that it would be the most obvious). I thought the society was generally saying that human emotion is not allowed. Although this goes beyond Fi vs. Fe I think that the thing that was most prohibited was Fi (personal sentiments that went against the rhetoric and party-line of society... because personal sentiments are unpredictable and subjective) and that it was being supressed in favor of Ti. Of course, you can't do away with Fi without also doing away with Fe, as the two are too related for this not to happen. But I saw more residual Fe hanging around in the system in the form of deeply held conviction that personal feelings and sentiments must be done away with for the benefit of society.

Christian Bale's character (who I saw as LSI) basically came to change through, most importantly not being on drugs anymore, but also through his interest in Fe. It was the outward displays of deeply passionate feeling that he could not look past. And so he carried out a Beta revolution where he overthrew the previous Beta system in favor of his own convictions, justified by Fe, that told him that this system was inhuman. I noticed that he was particularly focused on strong outward emotional displays and the meaningful emotional nuances present in things like a beautiful piece of music, or the way light came through a window, or the arrangement of objects on his desk. As it's hard to try to separate Fi and Fe, it's difficult to really say how, but I see his particular interests here as very Fe in nature. As for the resistance itself, it probably just consisted of a large mix of people who weren't on emotional suppressants anymore, who whether Fi or Fe valuing, would surely all agree that society sucked and they (or anyone) certainly could not live freely in... and naturally would agree that killing people whose only crime was having feelings and being human is absolutely insane.

[717495]

The "code triad" is simply a way of precisely defining what those categories are, and which information belongs in what category.

This is incorrect, idealistic, probably harmful thinking. The code triad is meant to be contextual with comparing information elements, a sort of loose directory, not a tool for precisely defining them so that they're perfectly symmetrical and uniquely categorized. This is precisely where people get fucked up in their understanding, and then can't type accurately. It just doesn't work that way, there is no simple exclusion to what an IM can manifest, but there are general definitions or realms of the IMs, and they all manifest differently in each type, and I'm hoping you see the reality of the 16 types as something imperfect yet viable. As though these observations are realistic, not some kind of mathematical paragon. Or else your system fell apart in reality a long time ago, you just don't realize it and you're unable to think for yourself.

[Krig the Viking]

This is incorrect, idealistic, probably harmful thinking. The code triad is meant to be contextual with comparing information elements, a sort of loose directory, not a tool for precisely defining them so that they're perfectly symmetrical and uniquely categorized. This is precisely where people get fucked up in their understanding, and then can't type accurately. It just doesn't work that way, there is no simple exclusion to what an IM can manifest, but there are general definitions or realms of the IMs, and they all manifest differently in each type, and I'm hoping you see the reality of the 16 types as something imperfect yet viable. As though these observations are realistic, not some kind of mathematical paragon. Or else your system falls apart a long time ago and you're unable to think for yourself.

Right.

So what you're saying is that it's impossible to precisely categorize information?

[717495]

It's just not true that these information elements are exclusive categories, because the pieces of information manifested by individuals come in many various qualities, quantities and combinations.

[Gilly]

Fucking 5w4..."Every moment is a unique and beautiful snowflake..."

...which can be captured and analyzed by way of the theory of information metabolism. You can't analyze every inch of a person's behavior with it, but you can trace it to functional processes on some level.

[ArchonAlarion]

Answer:

The IE's are not WHAT information is perceived but HOW it is perceived.

"Passion" is a vague label and cannot be placed into an IE category.

Model A (or Rick's model A, rather) has all IE's on the false assumption that things like "passion" or "time" are sortable in such a way.

If the IE's were "WHAT's" then you'd need at least limited use of all 8 to function. If they are "HOW's", then you don't.

[strrrng]

Yes, agreed re: polikjum and archon.

After all, it would pretty foolish to assume that eight categories are fully encompassing, to the point of exclusivity. Just because passion and such can commonly be associated with a manifestation of a certain function, doesn't mean there is a direct correlation. People are dumb.

[Gilly]

Answer:

The IE's are not WHAT information is perceived but HOW it is perceived.

"Passion" is a vague label and cannot be placed into an IE category.

Model A (or Rick's model A, rather) has all IE's on the false assumption that things like "passion" or "time" are sortable in such a way.

If the IE's were "WHAT's" then you'd need at least limited use of all 8 to function. If they are "HOW's", then you don't.

First off, everyone uses all 8 functions. They are part of a cohesive model of the psyche, like different sides of the same cube that encompasses information; you can't really have one without the others. If you dispute this, then you're not properly using the cubic model.

Second of all, people tend to use words like "passion" to describe Fe not because all of your little NeTi instances of anything that could be possibly labeled as "passion" fall under Fe, but because the word "passion" is a fairly accurate indicator of a subsection or generalized part of what encompasses Fe. Your method of interpreting this is like saying "Everyone who has blue eyes is a blue person." But then you look in the real world, and you see that not all people are blue all over, so you assume that they must only engage in the act of being colorful by way of their blue eyes. But because you see blue, they must be blue, surely! Their skin can't have color; no, nor their internal organs or hair or any other part of them. Do you see how pathetically simplistic and futile this style of thinking is? If you are going to pretend that one person is label-able by color, you have to look at all of the colors that humans naturally have to have to live, and weigh them, and see which is really the most prominent; you can't just see one tell-tale sign and assume that all is told. That called sloppy thinking.

Does this describe how you feel about Si, Jake?