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    Default Questions about Enneagram Type 3

    Is Enneagram 3 about simply trying to look good to others? Or is it about defining an image of your ideal self and then using external feedback (whether it's input from other people, grades, income, assignment to leadership positions, or any other external means of measurement deemed important to the E3) to help you determine whether you're succeeding in being that person?
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    this does make me think of you, Joy.

    Threes - the enneagram ...info from the underground

    esp. paragraphs 3 and 4 I guess.
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    E3's primary focus is to create a self-image. That can mean trying to look attractive, trying to become 'successful', or being the best at whatever they do.

    3w2 often aim at trying to be role-models that everyone looks up to, knows, and loves. They are generally more friendly and outgoing. I find that most 3 descriptions lean toward 3w2.
    3w4 tend to focus more on competing with themselves and trying to distinguish themselves by being best at what they do. Generally more reserved and elitist.

    E3's usually use objective measures of success. Wealth, fame, or otherwise. They usually have a feeling of being meant for something bigger.

    Unhealthy 3s sometimes adopt a "if I can't be it, fake it" attitude whether they are aware of it or not. 3s are typically very self-conscious, but usually develop an impressively confident facade. Self-consciousness is not impressive.
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    As a 3, there are definitive points in my life in which I have changed and look back on my old self with some disgust, and I view myself as a work in progress.

    As a 3w4, I find that I am torn between trying to become someone better and trying to stay true to myself. A big fear of mine is someone catching me being someone I'm not. Most of this was constantly on my mind in my highschool years. I've found a lot more confidence, stability, and authenticity since then.
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    Well, I think that pretty much settles it. I'm a 3w4. (Peter's been saying so for years, lol.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Well, I think that pretty much settles it. I'm a 3w4. (Peter's been saying so for years, lol.)
    yep.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    But then again...

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/TypeThree.asp
    Threes want success not so much for the things that success will buy (like Sevens), or for the power and feeling of independence that it will bring (like Eights). They want success because they are afraid of disappearing into a chasm of emptiness and worthlessness: without the increased attention and feeling of accomplishment which success usually brings, Threes fear that they are nobody and have no value.
    I relate more to 8 (or even 7) than 3 here.
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    Does being powerful and independent make you feel more valuable? Like you purposely make that a part of the image you want to project?

    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    3w2 often aim at trying to be role-models that everyone looks up to, knows, and loves. They are generally more friendly and outgoing. I find that most 3 descriptions lean toward 3w2.
    True. I want to be a nerd role model, or the face of nerdiness.
    The saddest ESFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by electric sheep View Post
    Does being powerful and independent make you feel more valuable? Like you purposely make that a part of the image you want to project?
    It's an image I enjoy having of myself, but I don't consciously think about wanting others to see me that way. And independence is far more important to me than power. I do enjoy leadership roles though. This is partially because it's easier to get things accomplished when you're in charge, partially because it makes me feel energized (having things to do, feeling good once they're accomplished, etc.), and partially because I enjoy being seen as competent and a leader.
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    There's a book called The Power of Awareness by Neville Goddard that talks about how we create our reality through our self-image and assumptions. I do identify with that philosophy.

    The easiest way for me to make real changes in my life is to develop a self-image that I like and then focus on it. I end up making choices that reflect those values and, as a result, manifest a corresponding reality through my behavior. Isn't that true of everyone though?
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    I think you're 3w2 or 2w3. You come across as more overtly helpful and supportive (like numbers) rather than the darker and more self obsessed 3w4.

    That drive to be productive, useful, efficient, etc is 2 related, but I believe you have confused it with Te (it is a motivation rather than a way of formatting information).
    The end is nigh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Is Enneagram 3 about simply trying to look good to others? Or is it about defining an image of your ideal self and then using external feedback (whether it's input from other people, grades, income, assignment to leadership positions, or any other external means of measurement deemed important to the E3) to help you determine whether you're succeeding in being that person?
    The second is much closer.

    Threes have a hard time gauging their own "self worth" naturally, so they attempt to gain concrete affirmation of sorts by which they can measure themselves.

    Part of being a 3 is having "object attachment relations;" in 3s, this manifests with the 3 "attaching" themselves to ideas or personal themes that gratify their self-image and help them think either that they "have made it" or "are on the way." Some seek money, fame, positions of power and status, or varying forms of material success, but these are not requisite 3 pursuits; what matters is that their self-image is gratified by what they accomplish with their lives. The upside of this is a true genuineness, that their work and life pursuits reflect who they truly are as people; the downside is when they will do anything, no matter how subversive or self-alienating, to achieve success or recognition.

    In addition, 3s exhibit "competency" under stress. This means that, when something is going wrong, they fall back on their strong suits in order to face a problem head on as best as they can. The healthy sides of this include performing well under pressure, being a rock that their inner circle can rely on, and "keeping it together;" the unhealthy manifestations include workaholism, keeping up appearances, or the tendency to showboat.

    An important theme to notice in both of these aspects of the three, regarding the levels of health, is the approach they take to getting what they want. Healthy 3s gain the gratification they desire by pursuing their true interests and being open about who they are and what they want, whereas unhealthy 3s take whatever they see to be the most direct means of obtaining gratification. A healthy 3 achieves true "success" by acknowledging their insecurities and overcoming them, allowing themselves to be fully "true," and excelling at whatever is truly best for them; an unhealthy 3 attempts to achieve "success" by gaining admiration in the eyes of others at any cost, with no regard for personal standards or boundaries.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    I don't know about all this adoration and recognition business, but the rest of it sounds like a decent enough fit.
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    I think 3 is a well-fitting type for Joy. At the very least, she has shown a consistent appreciation for all those self-help bullshit books, typically loved by 3s.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I don't know about all this adoration and recognition business, but the rest of it sounds like a decent enough fit.
    Recognition and adoration are nothing but tools, means to an end. Besides, they typically only play a MAJOR role in the fixation of so-primary 3s; sx 3s are more concerned with the approval of their intimates, or success in areas that their intimates value, and sp 3s are concerned with achieving their personal ideal of material prosperity of some sort.

    Also, recognition or approval are things that function in the subconscious of the 3; they may be aware of its manifestation in themselves, but they wouldn't be directly aware of the way in which they are trying to "impress" people. Fixations are almost instinctual; a 2 doesn't think to themselves, literally, in their thoughts, "I have to help people to be liked." That's ridiculous. But it's a script they play out because of subconscious inclinations; likewise, 3s play out the script of working towards success to achieve recognition or approval of some kind.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Recognition and adoration are nothing but tools, means to an end. Besides, they typically only play a MAJOR role in the fixation of so-primary 3s; sx 3s are more concerned with the approval of their intimates, or success in areas that their intimates value, and sp 3s are concerned with achieving their personal ideal of material prosperity of some sort.

    Also, recognition or approval are things that function in the subconscious of the 3; they may be aware of its manifestation in themselves, but they wouldn't be directly aware of the way in which they are trying to "impress" people. Fixations are almost instinctual; a 2 doesn't think to themselves, literally, in their thoughts, "I have to help people to be liked." That's ridiculous. But it's a script they play out because of subconscious inclinations; likewise, 3s play out the script of working towards success to achieve recognition or approval of some kind.
    I think this is well said.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

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    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Is Enneagram 3 about simply trying to look good to others? Or is it about defining an image of your ideal self and then using external feedback (whether it's input from other people, grades, income, assignment to leadership positions, or any other external means of measurement deemed important to the E3) to help you determine whether you're succeeding in being that person?
    Well the answer to if E3 is about trying to look good to others is.... YES and NO

    e3 want to look good to others is true... but.....

    If its purely just for its own sake, then it becomes borderline narrcisstic which could get out of hand, and is usually an e3 operating close to disintegration. At the first turn of trouble in this direction e3's become political robots; they are industrious like machines, their emotion becomes superficial, positive, and professional to appear likeable, and they deceive themselves into beliving their outward image IS who they are inside.

    Ideally e3's are not just an image but a real role model for success, and not for its own sake but because it naturally arrises from their character, their industry/success and optimistic spirit is an inspiration and they make valuable teachers to others on how to achieve such success, fulfilling some alturistic motivations.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I have to say, Joy, I'm surprised. I have always assumed you were a 3, but I never thought you would see it.

    Between you, Mimosa, and I, I think it can be easily claimed now that E3s are the type that have the most type confusion
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Dude, I know 3's are not about projecting a "false image". The humor largely comes from Micheal doing that though.
    And I'm telling you that Michael not doing anything to change is exactly what a 3 would NOT do.

    Also, would a 3w2 do that (more combative and competitive trying to beat others down to push themselves up) when unhealthy?
    Yes, at really unhealthy levels 3s become self-centered assholes that will do whatever it takes to make it seem like they are the best. 3w2s would theoretically be outwardly worse because of their more outward approach. They would probably be far more apparently competitive, boastful, and a show-off. 3w4s are more prone to workaholism, self-negligence, and jealousy from afar.

    The misconception, I think, is that 3s are centered around getting people to like them. This is only partly true. They use what people think of them as a measure of how impressive they are, but they don't necessarily want to be liked. They want everyone to look at them with jealousy or admiration.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    The misconception, I think, is that 3s are centered around getting people to like them. This is only partly true. They use what people think of them as a measure of how impressive they are, but they don't necessarily want to be liked. They want everyone to look at them with jealousy or admiration.
    I would say this is more true of so or sp 3s, whose "targets" for attention are generally ambiguous. sx 3s, on the other hand, are motivated by bringing people closer to them, and want those that are close to them to approve of them; the idea is that, the closer someone is, the more they should admire the 3. Without having people close to them, sx 3s have no source for validation. I suppose it would be more accurate to say they need people close to them rather than simply being liked, but nonetheless the idea of actually drawing people in, in some fashion, is prevalent with sx primaries, whereas it is irrelevant to so or sp-first 3s, and sometimes even antagonistic to their goals; letting people closer implies letting them see flaws, which is especially hard for so 3s.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I would say this is more true of so or sp 3s, whose "targets" for attention are generally ambiguous. sx 3s, on the other hand, are motivated by bringing people closer to them, and want those that are close to them to approve of them; the idea is that, the closer someone is, the more they should admire the 3. Without having people close to them, sx 3s have no source for validation. I suppose it would be more accurate to say they need people close to them rather than simply being liked, but nonetheless the idea of actually drawing people in, in some fashion, is prevalent with sx primaries, whereas it is irrelevant to so or sp-first 3s, and sometimes even antagonistic to their goals; letting people closer implies letting them see flaws, which is especially hard for so 3s.
    agreed. my point was to that even the most people oriented 3s (so 3w2s) don't prioritize being 'liked' over being admired. Actually, sx 3s probably more than the other 2 variants want to be directly admired and desired. So 3s generally want status. Sp 3s generally want wealth.

    "That guy is complete ass, but he is very good at what he does" is an opinion that most 3s would be happy with.
    Last edited by Azeroffs; 12-10-2009 at 06:30 PM.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    agreed. my point was to that even the most people oriented 3s (so 3w2s) don't prioritize being 'liked' over being admired. Actually, sx 3s probably more than the other 2 variants want to be directly admired and desired. So 3s generally want status. Sp 3s generally want wealth.

    "That guy is complete ass, but he is very good at what he does" is an opinion that most 3s would be happy with.
    True. But I wouldn't want one of my close friends to say that I was an ass; maybe suggesting that I was a jerk in some scenarios, ok, I don't care, but if it's a general comment, and they genuinely think I am mean to them or treat them unfavorably, then I would be confused and uncomfortable.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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