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Thread: ESFjs and Hellenic civilization

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    Moderator xerx's Avatar
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    Default ESFjs and Hellenic civilization

    Has anyone noticed a tendency for ESEs (scholars or otherwise) to be enraptured by, and even glorify aspects of the Hellenic civilization? I mean the Hellenic civilization specifically, not just any old culture.

    Example off the top of my head:
    Heinrich Schliemann
    Gene Roddenberry
    Arnold J. Toynbee (tentative)

    INTjs do love the classics, but I've noticed this tendency spilling out into their duals as well.

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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    I have not noticed this, but it sounds interesting. Any theories on why this might be?
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Our picture of Hellenic culture is tied up with Athenian Philosophy, which is pretty Ti and Alpha (even though Athens herself was, I'd think, Gamma). Sparta was Ti + Se.

    Many philosophical Ideas about governance were naive and hopelessly Utopian.

    It was a time of experimentation and social innovation that had never occurred before (it did occur in Mesopotamia to some extent, but you get the gist). New forms of social interaction radically broke away from older, more archaic forms of government.

    The philosophical culture in many of the courts. The personality-driven philosophical culture inside Athens.

    The fact that city states are more easily swayed by great personalities (Themistocles, Alcibiades, etc.), unlike modern democratic states. Politics doesn't seem so impersonal anymore.

    Greek spiritual life in the form of the Greek pantheon is dominated by great personalities as well, their loves and internecine jealousies.


    Overall, I'd think such a society would appeal to an ethical type, especially one that valued TiNe, Fe (for the intrigue) and belonged to a quadra that was the least concerned with the modern world (Te and Se devaluing).


    That's all I can think of now.

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    You may be onto something. There's an interesting section on the wiki about the cultural shifts that would fit into quadra values
    Alpha is seen as the quadra of "birth" or childhood, as in, new concepts and creations without boundaries, which is quickly stifled by Se/Ni valuers (particularly Betas) who instill structure and hierarchies into society
    EII INFj
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    (quadra relay race)
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
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    ~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    You may be onto something. There's an interesting section on the wiki about the cultural shifts that would fit into quadra values
    Alpha is seen as the quadra of "birth" or childhood, as in, new concepts and creations without boundaries, which is quickly stifled by Se/Ni valuers (particularly Betas) who instill structure and hierarchies into society
    my conception is that beta takes alpha ideas and runs with them. enfj energizes the cause, estp marshals the troops, istj figures out the procedures, and infp gives it some soul. beta applies alpha ideas.

    gamma sets up efficient profit-making enterprises with beta causes. delta institutionalizes and softens the enterprise. then, alpha comes along and sets off another bomb...LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Has anyone noticed a tendency for ESEs (scholars or otherwise) to be enraptured by, and even glorify aspects of the Hellenic civilization? I mean the Hellenic civilization specifically, not just any old culture.
    No, I haven't noticed. On a possibly related note..I know one ESE who was at some point in his life(adolescence) pretty much obsessed with ****** and his Reich. Thanks God he cured himself from it and married an EIE.
    Last edited by Trevor; 11-28-2009 at 03:42 AM.

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    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    Athenian philosophy... was pretty Ti, I guess, especially Aristotle, who reinterpreted all of the ancient Greek philosophers.

    Parmenides and Heraclitus were manifestly Ni, though, and I personally think that Plato was ILI and Socrates was IEI... but that's partially wishful thinking on my part (not that there isn't evidence for those).

    Arguably Hellenic culture but certainly the Renaissance and Romantic reimaginings of it are very Si-valuing, all about the physical beauty and the beautiful sculptures and what-not. I'd believe Gamma for Peloponnesian War era Athens.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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