Delta Lounge

[UDP]

my random comment of the day:

There is a vast, huge difference within types.
enneagram, enneagram instinct, apti, cultural/social norms, conditioning, age, experience, associative experiences and memories, etc, all factors.

this is not newsflash. But it's good to have different lenses available, so you can better give a space for people's needs -- rather than overfitting and pixilating by stretching a single theory too far.

[Beautiful sky]

promise me you are never going to use socionics to justify having a poor relationship with your child

I ordered 5 books for my daughter -used of course because I'm huge into reuse recycling

[Beautiful sky]

my LSE mil has cancer (her fourth one in her life)

[Sol]

my random comment of the day

"TIM LSE"

no

[Beautiful sky]

"TIM LSE"

no

he's LSE

[Sol]

he's LSE

he's another unicorn

LSE men are very rare on obscurity psychology forums. He's talking style differs from my significantly.

"promise me you are never going to use socionics to justify having a poor relationship with your child"

this reminds F type. mb even FN

"my random comment of the day:
There is a vast, huge difference within types.
enneagram, enneagram instinct, apti, cultural/social norms, conditioning, age, experience, associative experiences and memories, etc, all factors."

Here you may notice a chaotic text format - high/low letter case. Also is not usual for LSE. It's significantly more expected from P or N type.

his profile avatar

this reminds F type humor. and it's not how serious LSE would represent themselves

In sum: it's not LSE. At best it's close SLI.

[Beautiful sky]

he's another unicorn

LSE men are very rare on obscurity psychology forums. He's talking style differs from my significantly.

"promise me you are never going to use socionics to justify having a poor relationship with your child"

this reminds F type. mb even FN

"my random comment of the day:
There is a vast, huge difference within types.
enneagram, enneagram instinct, apti, cultural/social norms, conditioning, age, experience, associative experiences and memories, etc, all factors."

Here you may notice a chaotic text format - high/low letter case. Also is not usual for LSE. It's significantly more expected from P or N type.

his profile avatar

this reminds F type humor. and it's not how serious LSE would represent themselves

In sum: it's not LSE. At best it's close SLI.

No he's LSE

[Lord Pixel]

1D Ni + 1D Fi problems = LSE doing everything for everyone around them then later getting exhausted and mad about being used.

[UDP]

he's another unicorn

LSE men are very rare on obscurity psychology forums. He's talking style differs from my significantly.

"promise me you are never going to use socionics to justify having a poor relationship with your child"

this reminds F type. mb even FN

"my random comment of the day:
There is a vast, huge difference within types.
enneagram, enneagram instinct, apti, cultural/social norms, conditioning, age, experience, associative experiences and memories, etc, all factors."

Here you may notice a chaotic text format - high/low letter case. Also is not usual for LSE. It's significantly more expected from P or N type.

his profile avatar

this reminds F type humor. and it's not how serious LSE would represent themselves

In sum: it's not LSE. At best it's close SLI.

hahaha

You don't even know that picture is from or why it's there.

also nice consistency of capitalization

[UDP]

I ordered 5 books for my daughter -used of course because I'm huge into reuse recycling

well you must be very proud of yourself

[Baboooshka]

Moss-covered books are the future.

I wouldn't buy used simply because I'm a collector. But library exemplaries are good for first time reads.

[Lord Pixel]

My alarm clock is my dual. It tells me when I need to get up, start working on something, keeps me accountable, tells me when I need to tend to responsibilities, and when to take a break.

[Lord Pixel]

So it has been awhile since I've spoke to the LSE co-worker girl at my job. There recently was an employee appreciation party that I went to and tons of employees showed up. My SEE co-worker friend sees me at the party, literally grabs me and yells for the LSE co-worker to come over. She comes over, and it has been awhile since we spoke, she had to walk all the way over from where she was and she says "Oh, look who decided to join us." and we give each other a hug. The way I felt was like it was some special reunion, I could feel some enthusiasm, but I could also feel that the SEE who also has a crush on the LSE girl also could sense it was some kind of special reunion because he just watched in silence while we were hugging each other. It felt like some light was turned on inside my chest. She seemed slightly enthusiastic as well. But then, after we hugged and she stood to talk to us for a while, I felt the need to not engage her as much because it hurts for me to since she has a boyfriend. Not sure if she expected me to engage her or not but after I decided to just talk to my SEE friend for awhile she walks all the way back from where she just came from. This usually doesn't happen, when she's around me it's all jokes and laughter, so maybe she expected that, but she saw me, smiled, talked for a bit didn't smile anymore, and then must have gotten bored and walked back. For the rest of the party we did not talk and right as I was about to leave I caught her and SEE together to say goodbye, I say goodbye to SEE and then extend my hand out to high five LSE for a goodbye, instead of the high five she gives me a hug but doesn't smile and just plainly says bye, my initial feeling was that I felt like she felt I treated her poorly since I haven't talked to her at work in awhile and that I didn't even talk to her at the party, I felt like I did something wrong when I saw the expression on her face even though she gave me a hug. I felt like I had did a misdeed or something in the friendship, but I also don't know what to do because I don't ever pay special attention to women as friends very much and I definitely don't talk to girls I have feelings for but who also have boyfriends, all my avoiding comes from the thought "Look you have a boyfriend, I can't be the same with you anymore, as far as I know it's better that I just leave you alone." When the SEE friend saw that she hugged me instead of high fived me he yells "BYE!" as if to rush me out of there, makes me think he was jealous or something lol.

[Lord Pixel]

best dual relation I have is with LSE friend. He does have classic caretaker tendencies and sometimes offers to for me to rely on him financially which is very kind of him, but it feels like taking an offer like that is taking advantage of someone. Do caretakers feel like they get taken advantage of alot? Maybe just an E2 thing I'm seeing.

I feel like 4D Te and Se together are real good at taking care of others needs but 1D Fi and Ni together doesn't always look out for their own best interest, not sure if that's the issue or not. Because all I see is my friend getting bitter in the future if I really took him up on some of his generous offers.

[Minde]

best dual relation I have is with LSE friend. He does have classic caretaker tendencies and sometimes offers to for me to rely on him financially which is very kind of him, but it feels like taking an offer like that is taking advantage of someone. Do caretakers feel like they get taken advantage of alot? Maybe just an E2 thing I'm seeing.

I feel like 4D Te and Se together are real good at taking care of others needs but 1D Fi and Ni together doesn't always look out for their own best interest, not sure if that's the issue or not. Because all I see is my friend getting bitter in the future if I really took him up on some of his generous offers.

Yes, I agree that some LSEs can be like that. E2 or other predispositions toward caring about people's wellbeing (aka a soft heart) can lead to them being taken advantage of. Often I think they're aware and logical enough to realize it, but the weakness in / low confidence in managing relationships can lead them to taking on more than they should. Or, conversely, shutting down when they don't need to.

Once they are confident in what boundaries need to be in place, they can be good at establishing them. But it's that low confidence in relations that can trip them up. That's where us who can tell them what's appropriate and what's not can help them. Like asking them "what if" questions to point out possible pitfalls in their offers - "What if I lose my job and can't pay you back?" "How much would it bother you if [this generous offer] ended up not panning out how we hoped?" etc. Sometimes they'll modify their offers based on that, and it's a friendly process.

Something else to consider is that the LSE might not see it as a strictly one-way generosity. They might see value in us that we don't. Over and over I've found that just being a kindly, trustworthy, encouraging presence seems to lift them up and give them sustenance. They might go overboard sometimes in generosity and need some cautioning on how much to do. But I think if the receivers are responsible and find ways to give back (and know when to refuse), the overall dynamic doesn't have to be poisonous.

[Lord Pixel]

Yes, I agree that some LSEs can be like that. E2 or other predispositions toward caring about people's wellbeing (aka a soft heart) can lead to them being taken advantage of. Often I think they're aware and logical enough to realize it, but the weakness in / low confidence in managing relationships can lead them to taking on more than they should. Or, conversely, shutting down when they don't need to.

Once they are confident in what boundaries need to be in place, they can be good at establishing them. But it's that low confidence in relations that can trip them up. That's where us who can tell them what's appropriate and what's not can help them. Like asking them "what if" questions to point out possible pitfalls in their offers - "What if I lose my job and can't pay you back?" "How much would it bother you if [this generous offer] ended up not panning out how we hoped?" etc. Sometimes they'll modify their offers based on that, and it's a friendly process.

Something else to consider is that the LSE might not see it as a strictly one-way generosity. They might see value in us that we don't. Over and over I've found that just being a kindly, trustworthy, encouraging presence seems to lift them up and give them sustenance. They might go overboard sometimes in generosity and need some cautioning on how much to do. But I think if the receivers are responsible and find ways to give back (and know when to refuse), the overall dynamic doesn't have to be poisonous.

I didn't know this all came from not knowing how to manage relations.

As far as the bold I witnessed this with a couple LSE's I didn't know it was an lse thing though, good to know.

[UDP]

My alarm clock is my dual. It tells me when I need to get up, start working on something, keeps me accountable, tells me when I need to tend to responsibilities, and when to take a break.

and never asks how you're feeling

[UDP]

Yes, I agree that some LSEs can be like that. E2 or other predispositions toward caring about people's wellbeing (aka a soft heart) can lead to them being taken advantage of. Often I think they're aware and logical enough to realize it, but the weakness in / low confidence in managing relationships can lead them to taking on more than they should. Or, conversely, shutting down when they don't need to.

Once they are confident in what boundaries need to be in place, they can be good at establishing them. But it's that low confidence in relations that can trip them up. That's where us who can tell them what's appropriate and what's not can help them. Like asking them "what if" questions to point out possible pitfalls in their offers - "What if I lose my job and can't pay you back?" "How much would it bother you if [this generous offer] ended up not panning out how we hoped?" etc. Sometimes they'll modify their offers based on that, and it's a friendly process.

Something else to consider is that the LSE might not see it as a strictly one-way generosity. They might see value in us that we don't. Over and over I've found that just being a kindly, trustworthy, encouraging presence seems to lift them up and give them sustenance. They might go overboard sometimes in generosity and need some cautioning on how much to do. But I think if the receivers are responsible and find ways to give back (and know when to refuse), the overall dynamic doesn't have to be poisonous.

I didn't know this all came from not knowing how to manage relations.

As far as the bold I witnessed this with a couple LSE's I didn't know it was an lse thing though, good to know.

I think this is particular the case for the softer, more ESE-like and yes higher enneagram 2 LSE. I relate although I'm colder and harsher some.

I relate a lot to @Minde 's comments on being unsure of how to establish certain boundaries and it's been several years of knowing myself and basically observing this topic before I know how to do it. But I feel like I am now very confident about how to manage this, in large part from finding the right sort of delta NFs to get feetback from, and see how they live it out. I think the delta NFS balance each other out here a lot - similarly, the NFs seem to not be sure how to evaluate value or measure effort in terms of accounting. They sometimes see it as a question of normatively driven outcomes "I feel this is good and want to be seen as doing good so..." rather than a sort of objective assessment of time, money, or energy expenditure.

"dualization" comes off when the NFs lead to the ST incorporating some of the, lets say, spiritual or deep-interpersonal factors into evaluations of expenditure and production capacity. The STs may lend to the NFs realizing that unless they take care of themselves and have honest accounting with their expenditures, money, time, effort, etc - they are not being as efficient as they could be towards their actual aims of helping or being good about things.



And yeah, the mere presence of delta NFs puts me at ease, esp in situations I don't feel comfortable with. It takes the edge off of being threat-focused, or interpersonally lacking ease, or hyper-task orientation. I once had some, mildly estranged NF visit me when I was having a tense time with a roommate, and their presence in the building completely changed the atmosphere for me. I think it has to do with not being certain about how to verbalize some of the emotional intricacies or personal feelings relative to the ease of task or objective commentary in a situation, so knowing someone who is present that is very consistent and often fosters articulation and prioritization of what ethically is salient, it takes the burden off of me having to do any extra work to do that.

That said, though, I do feel better now at this point than any other time in my life to handle those things alone - but not having access to a set of NF friends who I know would support my values, or whom I could call and talk things over as needed - would definitely be a loss.

[Eliza Thomason]

I ordered 5 books for my daughter -used of course because I'm huge into reuse recycling

The book my son enjoyed the most when he was probably your daughter's age was a "book" I made him called "Baby". I had noticed he lit up and said "baby" whenever he saw a picture (or an actual) baby. I used pictures that I loved and had found combing through baby magazines, since I had a few around, and glued them on tan paper, with words like "sleeping" eating" "crawling" and laminated the pages and tied together the book together at the spine with red ribbons. And he was fascinated with each page, and loved when I read the words, "Baby sleeping! Baby eating!"...

A happy memory! There is drudgery to b e sure but these years go by so fast. The happy loving moments you will remember forever.

[Adam Strange]

LIE-perceived subjective differences between a Semi-dual (EII) and a Dual (ESI):

I'm LIE, and I have worked with both a female EII e9 and a female ESI e6. I get along with both of them fantastically. I can take either of them anywhere and they are both supportive, but the EII and I can make plans which don't happen (because, I think we are both short on Se), while the ESI and I make plans which happen and are over all too soon. I'm left wanting more.
The EII is involved with the financial end of things and because I do not want to keep track of paperwork and she does this, I basically avoid looking at her work, beyond noting that everyone gets paid and no one has gone to jail yet. She does say that she doesn't know how to do some things sometimes, but she somehow figures it out on her own. She also very diplomatically lets me know when the coffers are getting low and I need to work a bit harder on my end of things.
The ESI sometimes needs some help, but because the projects are art works commissioned by me, I can make helpful technical suggestions to her. The she simply goes away and returns quickly with a finished product. It is over all too quickly for my taste.

I have also worked with a male EII (e9?) and a male ESI e6, and both are engineers, so I'm more knowledgeable about their work. The male EII is always asking me for help with his designs, always looking for feedback. He tells me that he needs help and that he doesn't know what to do, and I'm always pushing him to be more self-assured and independent in the hope that he will bother me less, but that hasn't happened. He needs help every little step of the way, even after he's been given an example of a previous design that has worked. He's so obviously Te-seeking. He also goes out of his way to talk to me in the hall about music (he's in a band) and I basically have zero interest in this. On the other hand, he produces designs which are quite artistic, if you can believe that a frame to hold laser optics can be beautiful.
Once, when half the company was out at a restaurant after work, he contrived to sit next to me and I thought the evening was going to be a disaster, but much to my amazement, he and I quickly fell into a conversation and I found myself enjoying the evening immensely. He was smart and funny and really a pleasure to be around. I would never have guessed this.
(As a side note, both he and the ILE at work have privately mentioned to me that they don't get along with the other, which just confirms the inherent toxicity of Supervision.)

As for working with the male ESI e6, he also is Te-seeking, but after he gets some guidance and is shown how to do something, he's off like a shot and does the work himself. He's pretty good at engineering design (better than me in some respects) and has a tendency to run so far with the ball that he can get beyond what I think are safe, conservative limits of design. I can also see that he doesn't have the sensitivity to customers that I have developed, in the sense that he flails around a bit in presentations, as if he can't read what they are seeing. On the other hand, I watched him with an intern the other day, and he said in no uncertain terms "This is what I need from you for the presentation tomorrow." Lots of Se there.

In sum, with regard to Te-seeking, I'd say that the EII's sit in one spot and want to know what has worked in the past before they will make a tiny move forward.
The ESI's are dithering around and want to be pointed in the right direction and then BAM they are off like a shot and they come back with the wrong things and then are course-corrected and then BAM they are off and they come back with the right thing and then they are off again doing something of their own choosing.

[Lord Pixel]

In sum, with regard to Te-seeking, I'd say that the EII's sit in one spot and want to know what has worked in the past before they will make a tiny move forward.

Story of my life.

I can also explain the sensation.

Stuck in the spot of a million possibilities, don't know where to start or how what we are trying to accomplish is accomplished, how is this done? Imagine a web of spaghetti strands tangled up, cannot focus on any individual strand, confusion, creating tension in the mind.

When someone comes and shows examples how something has been done in the past, we can see how the thing works and that route that we can take. We now know the steps that work to get us where we are trying to go. Imagine all the spaghetti strands untangled and straightened, they each can be seen clearly now, clarity, creating relief in the mind. Like an extinguisher to a fire, like cold water on a hot day, complete release from the knots of stress.

Another good analogy is that we can be drowning in stress and each past example of "how to" is like a solid pebble we can stand on and use to hop towards our destination. Past examples have proven themselves to be consistent and can be trusted like solid ground. Maybe not always but in most cases. This gets rid of a ton of worry.

That's also how I experience confidence as well, I don't have the "just believe in yourself" kinda confidence that gets promoted alot. Once I see what has worked in the past, I'm filled with confidence that I can use those methods to get results in the future. I'm not longer working from theories and maybes, but solid and tangible tools that are backed up by evidence. The feeling is overall good.

[Revelations]

Handmade shoes https://taftclothing.com/ Dunno if it's delta or not ^^;

[FreelancePoliceman]

Recently I'm rethinking the "caregiver" dichotomy in socionics. I think it's BULLS. Having many Gamma family members (I do have a rather large family - over 100 members), it's always the ESI, ILI, and SEE who tell me "M, make sure baby isn't out in the sun for too long, it's not good for her; M, it's too windy out cover your baby; M, her eyes look watery, ask the doctor what's going on." While the SLI and LSE are just sitting back and doing their own thing.

Seriously people get your information straight.

The SLIs and LSEs probably took the attitude that the baby would express itself if something was wrong. They usually take a somewhat comparatively hands-off approach to parenting. I think it’s a good attitude — make sure a child has food, sufficient resources, and someone there in case something goes wrong, but they don’t need to be coddled over every little thing.

Personally I wouldn’t too much about the amount of sun or wind a baby gets unless she’s going to get sunburned.

[Lord Pixel]

Do the pair of functions in each block work together. Like for example the Super Ego block, they are both points of insecurity, do those two functions work together like how the functions in your Ego block work together.

I ask because anytime my Role is criticized I tend to want to engage my PoLR in an attempt to retaliate. This manifests as someone criticizing my Ti and that makes me want to engage Se aggression to retaliate against the criticism, in other words when someone sincerely calls me stupid I get an impulse to want to punch them in the face. Maybe it's not a function or EII thing idk, but I definitely am not like this with other criticisms, and I definitely do not have an unusually short fuse.

[lilith]

Do the pair of functions in each block work together. Like for example the Super Ego block, they are both points of insecurity, do those two functions work together like how the functions in your Ego block work together.

I ask because anytime my Role is criticized I tend to want to engage my PoLR in an attempt to retaliate. This manifests as someone criticizing my Ti and that makes me want to engage Se aggression to retaliate against the criticism, in other words when someone sincerely calls me stupid I get an impulse to want to punch them in the face. Maybe it's not a function or EII thing idk, but I definitely am not like this with other criticisms, and I definitely do not have an unusually short fuse.

mmhm idk if someone called me stupid i would probably want to punch them too, not do it, but just think about it in my head. i think most people will have a similar negative reaction, so it's probably not a se polr thing.

[lilith]

this channel oozes maternal si energy

[Lord Pixel]

mmhm idk if someone called me stupid i would probably want to punch them too, not do it, but just think about it in my head. i think most people will have a similar negative reaction, so it's probably not a se polr thing.

Is it strong though, like you almost want to actually do it?

[Nairda]

this channel oozes maternal si energy

Si energy is tasty

[BabelFish]

oh yeah. I could just watch those videos for hours.
There's also some very soothing videos of people journaling/painting which I find to be very Si focused.

[Nairda]

oh yeah. I could just watch those videos for hours.
There's also some very soothing videos of people journaling/painting which I find to be very Si focused.

I feel bad for people who don't value Si, the appreciation of aesthetic comfort is far less than it seems to be with those who do
I wonder if there is a correlation between people who like ASMR and Si valuing.

[Baboooshka]

I shamelessly admit that I like ASMR but I'm a purist; Eating sounds are simply disgusting and so are most of the mouth sounds.

My first "ASMR experience" was in kindergarten, when other kids would play pretend and use me as their patient (they were the doctors).
I fell asleep multiple times

[Sol]

Eating sounds are simply disgusting and so are most of the mouth sounds.

I don't understand "eating ASMR" too.
Mostly I like wispering, mic rustling, hand moving hypnosis.

> My first "ASMR experience" was in kindergarten, when other kids would play pretend and use me as their patient (they were the doctors)

yep. before all that Internet and ASMR clips many people should to have that experience. sounds which induce trance alike states

> I fell asleep multiple times

I reacted so on some movies And audio book readings, books retellings.
The 1st time I watched Lord of the Rings (1 movie) - it was at home VHS and I've fall asleep. I read Tolkien books before and liked them, but the movie was lesser catching.
It was not easy to watch Start Trek of original seasons, - many times during this. And other.

[Beautiful sky]

It’s very difficult to find the time and energy to have sex when you have a baby

[BabelFish]

I like some forms of ASMR.
I have misophonia so sounds of people eating and chewing or whispering really bother me.
But the other kinds are fine.

[Nairda]

It’s very difficult to find the time and energy to have sex with a baby

This is one of the times where a simple comma is the difference between a pedophilic monster and a caring mother

[Nairda]

I like some forms of ASMR.
I have misophonia so sounds of people eating and chewing or whispering really bother me.
But the other kinds are fine.

Ugh yeah, I don't have misophonia but there is something that I find to be incredibly grating and obnoxious about hearing someone's mouth smack in any way, shape or form.

[Beautiful sky]

This is one of the times where a simple comma is the difference between a pedophilic monster and a caring mother

I mean when you have a baby

[Nairda]

I mean when you have a baby

There there, everyone knows what you mean't.

[Beautiful sky]

Love being married to my husband. We just mesh on so many levels and our relationship is full of fun and life

[Beautiful sky]

I love listening to people vent, sorting out their feelings, guiding them through emotional pain and confusion, and helping make sense of things from above our everyday human struggle