@Sol, as an astrologer, I agree that we have fixed elements in our nature that for some obscure reason we bring along since we're born. The thing is when will these traits be visible in their full scope? A person has to go through many things before being fully aware of themselves, that's why psychology says our brain reaches maturity at 25, and I guess that's why socionics use that info to determine an accurate settling of one's type, since socionics is not behavioral but cognitive.
The talk was about mature level of a psyche. Practically it's just a stable level of personality when the ontogenesis stops. Mostly we discussed in the relation to types traits.Originally Posted by ooo
Also from types point a half of our personality stays badly conscious and badly developed for whole our life. Except rare cases when weak functions some people may develop to social average level (not just some skills, the functions) and _also_ close to level of strong functions - they have low expressed types and _all_ functions as strong (by current social standards). I'm not sure I ever saw such people, but understand they may to exist at least in lesser developed societies which have lesser demands to peoples' minds and hence lesser predispose to types accentuations.
To be "full" aware of own Self is a doubtful situation, as with new external experience you'll know more yourself too. People change for whole life and there is no final. But we may find a point when changes become slow and call it as relatively stable state of psyche maturity. It's 16 yo. formally by laws (in my country and some others - the age when sex has no limitations, a human is understood as adult in nature (not social) sense as the main difference between adult and a child is the abbility to born children) and by my own perceptions - the psyche maturity of 16 years is the good point. I noticed no significant changes in my personality since that time, for example. Only a degradation due to aging alike lesser sexual attraction to women, lesser level of energy, etc. and consequences of this. The types related traits I understand in myself and see expressed in me on the same level like it was in ~16 yo. Later I changed the level of some skills, but did not perceive myself as having other personality. People which knew me in that age and see now have the similar impression and similarly I see them as the same persons - they may play new roles, to be more or lesser restrained - but they are the same for me. I'm sure it's common situation.
> that's why psychology says our brain reaches maturity at 25
Some people said by some criterions which I've supposed they used for this. I've offered the other approach, which fits to current laws and better to my experience.
> and I guess that's why socionics use that info
To Socionics relates only Jung's and Augustinavichiute's texts and ideas. More correctly - among them only the correct ideas + new ideas which also were proven objectively correct. Also Jung's ideas have higher priority than Augustinavichiute's until there is gotten objective prove of other (they have principle contradictions in what is "polr", how acceptive/productive functions manifest, what is primary in introvertion trait, etc). All other ideas is better to say as just opinions of some people about types.
> since socionics is not behavioral but cognitive
Socionics describes the both: cognitive principles and behavioral consequences in average case. As those coexist and in practice to decide about cognitive is used the behavioral (as the seen behavior and what was said).
in my country and in others the age of consent for sex is 14 or 13. this law doesn't mean 13 years old kids are adult and developed. the psyche is not the body only.
i'm aware socionics' involved with both the cognitive and the behavioral, but it's the cognition to shape the behavior, more than the reverse. it's pretty shallow to focus on the external behaviour only, and it causes a lot of confusion in psychological related matters, such as socionics, because as the word says, psychology studies the psyche, that is the soul, not the body.
socionics has many theorists inside of it, you're definitely one of them
My husband loves meatballs and I was sort of curious about the nutritional content of meatballs at subway and looked for the nutrient content and I find this
Meatball marinara
5120
CALCIUM % DV
what would they have to add to their food to get DV of 5120% of calcium to meatballs? OMG
This is how dangerous Ne curiosity is! Most people wouldn't let themselves me led to such information haha
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 01-08-2019 at 01:47 PM.
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Sounds like human bones. This is why I avoid Subway at all costs.
“I want the following word: splendor, splendor is fruit in all its succulence, fruit without sadness. I want vast distances. My savage intuition of myself.”
― Clarice Lispector
You guys have Subway in Romania?
We're not that cut off from the rest of the world. We ARE in the middle ages, but not cut off. Investors still invest >: (
We only got Spotify in April last year, but beggars can't be choosers.
“I want the following word: splendor, splendor is fruit in all its succulence, fruit without sadness. I want vast distances. My savage intuition of myself.”
― Clarice Lispector
I didn't mean it as an insult!
We don't have Subway here in Belgium. No KFC either.
I know KFC has signed a contract with Hector Chicken that they wouldn't open any restaurants in this country, so I think Subway probably also a contract, but with who? That's a mystery indeed.
So C would be creative subtype as a rule?Hi
edit : we should do a consensus about using the 2 subtype model or DCNH. Personnally I find DCNH credible. "getting stuff done" can be imo as much dominant as normalizing, and probably all subtypes when heatlhy (and when it's needed to do something)
I think my mother is a textbook TeSi subtype Dominant but she still lack little of discipline. I think too that Dominant ppl tend to try consciously to be more adaptable (forcing a little use of second function because they know using only the first can't work everywhere), and creative subtype tend to try to appear as normalizing (while it's still clear they are creative at contact). This is just kinda theoric but it work in my family lol.
In my case I am Eii Ne C so it makes sense for me.
I’m reflecting on the suffering of people who are moral. In a way they suffer a lot when make a mistake because they know the cost of making a mistake because they know right from wrong. In my own personal suffering ma from the past and reflecting on them I can see how all of that interacted.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I like to cook so many different recipes.
On the weekend I made sushi , Chinese chicken and broccoli, etc Mexican enchiladas
My poor husbandI don’t know how he lives with a woman who is trying to get him to taste things. Well he’s such a great sport. So far he’s said no to one dish haha
I’m back to my Mediterranean kick yay.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Sense8 is a purely Delta TV series.
I am unused to bureaucracy.
At the start of the year, I started a sub-contract with a webdev company that’s contracting with a larger company to work on their website. Big Company has subdivisions within themselves, and Webdev is working with three of them. The subdivisions report to a central unit, who have to approve everything and apparently are anti-efficiency. Testing environments must never contain production data. And don’t even think about automation.
This morning, a big boss guy storms into the main slack channel, “Make this magic happen by next week! I’ve been asking for it for months, and now your time is up!” When Webdev Project Manager says, “We’d love to, but…” and lists several institutionalized hurdles, Big Boss sticks with, “Well, that’s too bad. Get it done!”
……
I haven’t encountered anything like that in years. It’s highly uninspiring.
Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.
I have planted tomatoe seeds and ordered Rosa Rugosa seeds to sprout and plant for our yard. I’m. Yeah. I am looking forward to gardening. My husband built a greenhouse and we just need to till the flatbeds outside when the frost is over. There’s something beautiful and therapeutic about planting
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
: ( sounds awful.
"A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........
"Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
attitude acceptable to today's standards." - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"
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The SEE at work has been struggling with the LSI boss. She feels unappreciated so what I did was sit her down and explained to her the LSI mind and how to approach them in the most affective way. The SEE keep commenting with “wow! Yes that’s him and hahaha” so after our talk about the LSI ‘s inability to focus on people when they are task oriented she felt so much better. I feel better too since I was an affective counselor in this situation and her feelings are better. She feels more relaxed, happy and confident after just a few minutes of explaining.<3
Addition to my week.
Periodically I will have fits of low blood pressure and these last few days it has been especially low. It so strange these processes of the body that are controlled by hormones and not up to the person’s will. In any case I did have to eat a lot of sodium rich foods to raise it back up.
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 03-07-2019 at 03:42 PM.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Hello everyone
As we reach for the stars, we must put away childish things; gods, spirits and other phantasms of the brain. Reality is cruel and unforgiving, yet we must steel ourselves and secure the survival of our race through the unflinching pursuit of science and technology.
- Stellaris
Just thought I'd post an exchange from last week, with a friend who I'm fairly sure would type as Si-SLI.
Her: My project ends next week, and I might take a vacation the week after. I don't know where to yet... haha.
Me: So do you plan on staying in the US or going outside the country? If staying within the US go to the Southwest!
Her: Why Southwest?
Me: #1 it's warmer, #2 it's different, and #3 it has everything you want! LA for shopping and weather, neighboring states for hiking and scenery
Her:You really know me... so you should also realize that part of me just wants to lie in bed all day.
Me:
"I'm taking vacation"
"Oh that's great! Where to?"
"...my bed"
Her:
So in LSE-EII duality, LSE ends up asking many people for favors and EII has to convince the group to conceed. What happens in LSE asks EII for favors, does LSE take EII doing favors for granted ever? Is LSE excercising control over EII or testing EII allegiance or something?
I'm not entirely sure what happens in LSE-EII dualities, even though I've seen an LSE interact with two EII's for a couple of years. From what I've seen, the LSE naturally assumes that the EII needs help and careful instruction. The LSE just seems to assume that he is the all-knowing daddy. Sometimes the EII's are on board with this, and sometimes they are not. The female EII has told me that the LSE is a pain in the ass sometimes, but she's unfailingly polite to him. And I've seen them have some convos in the hall where they were both really enjoying themselves.
The female EII is able to entirely out-maneuver the male LSE when she wants to. The male EII complains to me constantly that his high-powered wife (maybe LSE, maybe not) takes advantage of him and treats him like a servant, but he then says he's just joking, they go on some terrific vacations, he has a great workshop, etc., and I've noticed that he hasn't left her. So who knows?
My mother is LSE, and while she married an SLI, she now has Alzheimers and is in a nursing home where she was, for a while, uniformly mean to just about everyone. So I was really surprised one visit when I found her in rapt (but pissed-off-looking) attention with a male patient (I'm assuming EII) who was just laughing and going on about his life in a car dealership, and both of them were talking but neither of them were making any sense whatsoever. They nevertheless were really enjoying themselves. I've never seen my mother so interested in someone before. Certainly not in my father. Lol.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 03-18-2019 at 05:15 AM.
My guess is, maybe it has to be contested so that EII doesn't feel like LSE takes them for granted, or to let LSE know they feel liek they are being taken advantage of, maybe LSE doesn't know they are doing that I have no idea, I don't know how you couldn't know though. But I don't mean when EII needs help, I mean when LSE asks EII for a favor and asks them to do something for them without explanation why and expects EII to go along with it. Maybe the taking advatage of is Te getting the most use out of a person, it does bring up ethical dilemmas though when the person feels like a tool or a means to an end.
Also he might says he's just joking to avoid making it look like there are problems in his marriage, or avoid making it look like they are bigger prob;ems then they actually are.
Well, to be painfully honest, Stratiyevskaya (ESI, Fi-dom) did call LIE's (Te-doms) exploiters of her good will. I don't think it has to be that way between Te and Fi doms, but maybe that's the form that unhealthy or unenlightened relationships take.
Personally, I feel that EII's are well-equipped to fight back against LSE's if they are being mistreated. LSE's are kind of Fi-blockheads and don't know how they themselves are feeling, so they certainly aren't going to wonder how you are feeling. (This can also apply to LIE's.) So getting a Te-dom to behave properly might take some Fi-arm twisting.
We really are afraid of pissing off our duals. At least, I am.
Also, a very weird thing happened to me when I first started interacting with an ESI. Usually, I'm listening to several convos and thinking about a hierarchy of things to do and I devote about 10% of my attention to the person I'm talking to, but the ESI at one point turned to me and said "I need......." something, I don't remember what, because I was astounded that 100% of my attention was focused on her when she stated that she needed or wanted something. I'm not sure how that happened, but it did happen.
Adam...I told my ESTJ husband today..."There are LSE who don't self examine things and there are LSE who do." We can recognize our "natural" selves and we can through socionics say "you know what I don't always have to be such an ass. I can be different." And that is what he and I try to be every day. He tries not to be so harsh and when he is he says "why am I so harsh honey? and then I'm such a good boy" and I say "why am I such an introvert and not listening to your logic?" then we laugh and forgive one another. We aren't all perfect but we can KNOW ourselves and make the choice to be something more or beyond the ordinary. We are more awake due to Socionics. Much more awake.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Favors? Sometimes. My husband only asks for things that he knows I can do. If he finds that A. I don't have the energy or time or B. I'm sick as hell he won't ask for anything. But if I am going to the store he'll ask me to get him a diet coke...or he'll ask his mom to send out some bills. Simple stuff.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Ah but this is around convenience, and in marriage so it's kinda different.
Hm, maybe I'm not asking the right question or maybe there's more tp it. LSE asked me to do a favor and it felt like a test to see if I would do it without question. I did it but I felt like a tool and like they think they would get away with that in the future, so I feel like I have to say something like "I'm not doing any favors unless you tell me what's going on." Idk maybe it's an e6 thing because they like to test people. maybe it's an Se PoLR thing because I heard Se PoLR does not like to be controlled. It feels like a mixture of things, but it all boils down to does LSE ask people to do things without question, and what happens if you say "No! What do I look like a damn slave?"
Damn the power of the dual lol.
Yea I man I don't think EII is completely helpless around LSE. I just think if one gets too comfortable they can be walked on, so I just wanted to know if this walking on needs to be regularly guarded against. There's Fi correction, but I also think EII can essentially see LSE coming from far away with Ne and their ability to predict their behaviors and side step an issue with them. Essentially do some psychological maneuvering. I just didn't anticipate the favor asking and feeling taken for granted, and like you said maybe they don't know I feel that way. So maybe particular LSE needs told that.
And yea what Strats said about ESI/LIE duality, ouch, I didn't even finish it but man she had words for you guys. Musta been personal.
EII are obedient
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
We’ve barely had our child and my husband is talking about having another baby
“Who’s to know that we don’t have another baby”
“Later when we have another baby”
“I want to have 10 babies “
Omg please make him stop
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
He's counting on EII's being obedient.
To be more serious, right after my ex and I had our kid, I told her that I wanted more (three in all, maybe), and she said one was enough. And since it takes two to tango, I agreed with her.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 03-18-2019 at 07:44 PM.
I hope this isn't foreal.
LP you’re not EII so why are you worried?
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
It is more likely an E6 or an E2 thing. You have to look for the motivation for the behavior. Obedience is a behavior.
The Compliant Style of Twos
Twos want attention, and try to get it by following the rules. If Twos love, help, and care enough for others, they will earn attention from others. If Twos do not receive enough attention, they will increase the amount of help they give. If they are all-loving saints, no one will reject them, and they will be loved (the ultimate attention) in return. Twos set themselves up as superior by making others dependent on them.
The Compliant Style of Sixes
Sixes want security, and try to get it by following the rules. If Sixes are sufficiently dedicated and committed to an authority figure, they will earn security from it. If Sixes do not receive enough security, they will either strengthen their commitment to their current authority figure (to give it a chance to provide more security), or they will rebel against it and seek security from another source. Their commitment to their cause/belief/authority figure gives them confidence and makes them look down upon those with different beliefs.
http://www.fitzel.ca/enneagram/socstyle.html
Type Two in Brief
Twos are empathetic, sincere, and warm-hearted. They are friendly, generous, and self-sacrificing, but can also be sentimental, flattering, and people-pleasing. They are well-meaning and driven to be close to others, but can slip into doing things for others in order to be needed. They typically have problems with possessiveness and with acknowledging their own needs. At their Best: unselfish and altruistic, they have unconditional love for others.
Basic Fear: Of being unwanted, unworthy of being loved
Basic Desire: To feel loved
Enneagram Two with a One-Wing: "Servant"
Enneagram Two with a Three-Wing: "The Host/Hostess"
Key Motivations: Want to be loved, to express their feelings for others, to be needed and appreciated, to get others to respond to them, to vindicate their claims about themselves.
The Meaning of the Arrows (in brief)
When moving in their Direction of Disintegration (stress), needy Twos suddenly become aggressive and dominating at Eight. However, when moving in their Direction of Integration (growth), prideful, self-deceptive Twos become more self-nurturing and emotionally aware, like healthy Fours.
https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-2SIXes have chosen an entirely defensive posture against their primal knowing, which was true and perfect Presence. Russ Hudson calls it “the quality of awakeness in which you can feel very directly this Presence all around you and within you that gives you an unshakable courage to take your place and walk your walk in the world.” [1] When SIXes lose the sense of resting in the full presence of God, instead of trustfully being held by Being they insist on forcing the issue. “I will assure it, I will prove it, and I will maintain it,” they say. They once held an image of an utterly reconciled and peaceful world, a safe and secure universe; yet instead of trusting it from Another, they try to manufacture it themselves by laws, authority, and structures of certitude (conservative religion, patriotic militarism, highly conceptual theories). Thus they have an ambivalent love/hate relationship with all authority.
Hudson explains that when SIXes lose presence, their passion or root sin of fear or anxiety begins to grow and their awakeness shifts to vigilance, then to watchfulness, hyper-vigilance, suspicions, and finally paranoia. “Their anxiety is awakeness without presence, [just as] fear is excitement without breathing,” Hudson says. He recommends breathing with the fear and anxiety, being with it as a signal of your own disconnection from the Presence. [2]
As in all the head types, a mental fixation feeds the passion and vice versa. A SIX may mentally decide that a certain look means their spouse wants a divorce. Hudson says, “Thinking that way keeps the anxiety going. To your nervous system, it’s as if those things are actually happening. When you’re a SIX, your life could be pretty good, but you’re telling yourself all the ways it could fall apart, so it feels like it’s falling apart. . . . SIXes get the sense that keeping myself keyed up like that will keep me on top of things. Fear becomes the false way I try to be with my wakefulness. I’m like a guard, trying to stay on duty, making sure my world doesn’t fall apart.” [3] Hudson calls this constant feeling of angst and anxiety “Pre-Traumatic Stress Syndrome.” [4]
The pitfall of phobic SIXes is cowardice; the pitfall of counterphobic SIXes is taking foolish risks. All SIXes both overestimate and mistrust authorities. They feel weak, which can lead them to submit in a sort of blind obedience (Germany is a SIX country). But it also leads them to join other underdogs to find strength in common. The strong or orthodox group (like the Infallible Catholic Church or Biblical Inerrancy Churches) help them deny and overcome their personal insecurity. Counterphobic SIXes tend to be panicky. Before their fear-filled fantasies can gain power over them, they plunge into risky undertakings or rebel with the courage of despair.
The root sin of SIXes also has a positive side. SIXes are very loyal, cooperative, reliable team players, and in their own unique way usually quite humble. They are the work force of the world, and probably the most common number by far. Their friendships are marked by warmhearted and deep feelings. They do their utmost for the people they love.
https://cac.org/type-six-need-security-2016-05-03/
Misidentifying Twos and Sixes
This is a fairly common mistype because these two types share a number of key traits. Both are warm and engaging and want to be liked–although, more precisely, Sixes want to have the approval and support of others, whereas Twos want to be loved and to be important to others. Both ingratiate themselves with people, although Sixes do so by being playful and silly, by bantering and teasing those they want to elicit an emotional (protective) response from. Average Twos also ingratiate themselves, but more from an implied position of superiority–they are warm and friendly, although the implication is that they are offering their love and friendship, their approval and advice, rather than that they are seeking it from the other, at least at first.
In short, the feeling-tone of both types is completely different: Sixes warily invite selected others into their lives, whereas Twos throw out the net of their feelings with more abandon and see whom they can sweep into the fold. Sixes want to create partnerships with others that will support them in their bid to be more independent, but start to feel anxious if the relationship becomes too merged or "mushy." Twos want to be close with others, and the more intimacy and merging they have with their loved ones, the better.
Both types are emotional, corresponding to the Jungian feeling types–the Two is the extroverted feeling type (PT, 62-63), and the Six, the introverted feeling type (PT, 222-223). Twos "wear their hearts on their sleeves" and are openly warm and demonstrative about how they feel toward others. Sixes, by contrast, are often ambivalent about their feelings, frequently sending ambiguous, mixed signals to other people. As they deteriorate, average to unhealthy Twos become increasingly covert in their dealings with people, ultimately becoming manipulative while concealing their true motives even from themselves. By contrast, average to unhealthy Sixes become wildly reactive (overreacting) and consciously confused about their feelings, ultimately becoming paranoid.
Indeed, Sixes are consciously assailed by anxiety, indecision, and doubts–and they look to trusted others (especially some kind of authority-figure) to reassure them and help them build their confidence and independence. Twos are also sometimes anxious, of course, as all human beings are; however, they are not as indecisive or assailed with doubts, nor do Twos consult an authority figure for answers. On the contrary, as they grow in self-importance, average Twos usually make themselves into authority figures, dispensing advice on all life issues to the people within their spheres of influence. In short, average to unhealthy Twos believe they will only get love by having others depend on them, whereas average to unhealthy Sixes increasingly fear becoming dependent on others, while actually becoming more dependent. At the end of the Continuum, the differences can be seen most starkly between the unhealthy Two's psychosomatic suffering and romantic obsession and the unhealthy Six's paranoia and volatile lashing out.
https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/m...ifying-2-and-6
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
figured this would come up.
I still don't know what makes you think that.
Didn’t I VI you as a P type?
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Yea, and someone else Vi'd me as a J type.
So the Rosa seeds need to be stratified which is a process of seeds going through a period of cold weather before planting. My tomatoe plant’s took off from seed and I passed out some to people I love who I know love to plant
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I’m very sad that my brother is getting a divorce. I accepted her as my sister and part of the family and it’s like why can’t they place the commitment above their petty struggles. I know why because each wants the other to concede and the other doesn’t. Still the change is hard. I would like her to come to the parties and just enjoy herself but I know he will feel awkward. Divorce is just ugly.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
the sad are the reasons for this. people could not love enough each other and suffered in the relations
now mb the both will get better pairs and will be happier with them
> it’s like why can’t they place the commitment above their petty struggles
mb they could. mostly people depart as do not want to do for good relations efforts which see as too much and switch to relations with others with a hope it will be easier. objectively - there are people which are easier for good relations. Jung's types is one of factors of this
> I know why because each wants the other to concede and the other doesn’t
People have regions for cooperations and support. But also there are always conflicts between anyone. Just anyone. The degree of those conflicts is different. Socionics tells a lot about these degrees. Though even duality does not mean all will be good. It means only - will be easier in something as one of important factors helps.
It's possibly also to feel better with shitty IR alike superego - if to reduce the demands and make more efforts to love, to care, to sacrifice something. It's possibly to love any human, despite his traits and what he does. With this feeling relations and general feelings in them can be better. With other relations factors is similarly - with more own efforts the dissatisfaction can be overcome significantly. From theory point, at least. People limits are not infinite. As our bodies have limits so our psyche too. The overloaded psyche leads to psyche issues, - to neurotisation symptoms. You may train, find and use better ways to deal with other one - that helps. But also you may find easier physical conditions for the body, easier people for you or just to live in shitty conditions and to suffer more than you could.
> Divorce is just ugly.
relations without deep love are ugly
Ok so EII supervison relations with ILE. Holy cow, where do I rant about this?
It is literally like having a child who says the most foul things to you and about you or others in public and you have to constantly discipline the child about what is right and wrong to say. And ILE's natural tendency is to push the boundaries to know where they are.
It's about constant boundary pushing and enforcing, the entire time. Also built up resentment from all the foul things said.
Can work together on with Ne thought. But Fi and Ti clash so hard. And Fi PoLR is a bitch to deal with.
It is good to see babylen posting in her quadra. Alleluia!
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