Tcaud\\'s Dual-typing thread

[redbaron]

[Creepy-]

@Sapphire: looking quite IEE-ENFj. I liked the art. It is evident that you do not have a lot of control with your hand, which is probably why you tend toward abstract art. You drew a complete scene where everything had its place, which suggests even dimensional Te(S). The poor hand control indicates the T(S) is generally weak. To IEE-ENFj, romance is idealized as working together to achieve common victories. Does this sound like you?

I have a VI example.



OkCupid.com: down2earthgirl00 / 27 / f / bisexual / Belmar, New Jersey

I should also note, this is Rick\'s dual-type.

Thanks, tcaudillg - I'll have to look into this a bit more....

And Gilly, don't go corrupting my identicals, please Actually I'm curious: do I give you the same vibe as this okcupid girl?

[tcaudilllg]

Sapphire: you\'re more open-minded than she is. Also more trusting and probably, more compassionate. Does she resemble you physically?

[Creepy-]

Sapphire: you\'re more open-minded than she is. Also more trusting and probably, more compassionate. Does she resemble you physically?

I don't know whether I'm "more" those things than she is [not knowing anything about her], but I am all of those things... to a fault, heh.

For VI comparison [please don't quote pics]:

[gone]

[xkj220]

You seem more SEE than IEE.

[Creepy-]

You seem more SEE than IEE.

Based on posts, or pics?

[xkj220]

Based on posts, or pics?

Based on pics. Based on posts you seem more delta NF.

[Creepy-]

Based on pics. Based on posts you seem more delta NF.

Ah, I see. FWIW several people here seem to VI me as SF based on pics, and NF based on video... I guess still shots just don't capture the unfocused all-over-the-placeness that is apparently characteristic of me ;p

[tcaudilllg]

I do know her. You\'re way more trusting than she is, that\'s evident from your relaxation. You\'re also not as comfortable with eye contact, probably because you\'re bolder. Still I don\'t think you\'re the same type of ENFp as her. So it\'s definitely NOT ENFj.

I know very little about Delta Ne. It\'s hard for me to imagine potential. I guess I would have to consider Ne(F):Fe(N) as the \"potential\" of an emotion or message. What it can do. How it will reasonate. Can it succeed in conveying an opinion? Will it be accepted? Invariably such a thing conveys a rhetorical idea. If the message resonates, then it is indicative of a motivation to make a choice. It indicates the people are ready to decide on an issue. Similarly, when a motivation for a choice is pinpointed, it would be foolhardy to cross it until the motivation has been satisfied. The message must respect the choice.

(it\'s very difficult for me to think as a dominant subtype -- I want to make that clear).

[Gilly]

[Gilly]

Actually I'm curious: do I give you the same vibe as this okcupid girl?

No, not at all, really. She is much more girly; she actually seems more like an introvert.

[crazedrat]

she looks more like a duck than you do

[Creepy-]

she looks more like a duck than you do

lol

[Creepy-male]

- your sociotype

IEE-Ne

- what you are good at

Understanding people. Maths, theoretical side of science, punning. Mentally demanding tasks where I have to focus on lots of things happening at once.

- what kinds of work you enjoy / career

Psychology for a career. I wouldn't mind being a maths professor, however. I could see myself doing some kind of biotech or physics research too. In general, anything that lets me use my mind or has me doing something in line with my interests and what I believe my skills are.

- your hobbies

Anything distracting. This means TV, movies, and video games. Within videogames, I'm likely to enjoy playing with them, ie, getting the maths behind different things that happen, reading about strategies, coming up with fun things to do within the game's rules.

I also listen to music as much as I can help it. I always have my headphones with me if I'm away from my PC, for instance. Sometimes even for moving around the house.

- whether you enjoy athletic sports

I'm sure I'd enjoy them if I had any ability. Sadly, I'm rather unfit and my body is in very poor condition, but I don't dislike them. Contact sports turn me off though.

- what you are notably bad at / careers you think you would fail in

Anything that would require me to follow strict procedures, work for speed over accuracy, or have me manipulating "non-exact" physical things (eg, any kind of chemistry work like titrations). I can't stand that real-world things are kind of rough and approximate compared to, say, maths, where everything pops out neat and nice and pleasant. Basically, anything that has me manipulating real-world things. Psychology strangely doesn't apply here, since I assume minds, emotions, and other peoplestuff to be hazy and not clearly defined anyway.

[tcaudilllg]

Isha: You have similar interests to zeldafan. I'm pretty sure you're an ISTp through and through. Do you think the normative assumptions of socionics are representative of you?

SLI-SLIs are keen to the helpfulness of others' attempts to be helpful. They observe irony: how a person can be self-defeating by hurting themselves as they try to hurt others. They can observe a system "devouring" itself, or self-sabotaging. To stop this, they may consider adding "supervisor" layers over top of the system itself, which in turn have to be monitored that they are not devouring themselves.... They see the imminent need for regulation.

Does this ring a bell?

(one practical example is how in the rush to curb global warming, people had the bright idea of clearing land to make room for corn fields so ethanol could be extracted. This involved burning weeds which, somebody pointed out, was actually contributing to the greenhouse effect).

[tcaudilllg]

Gilly: if you are EIE-LIE, then your hidden agenda is to have powerful friends. (Se(T):Se(F) -- contacts which are strong). Does that sound like you? EIE-LIE tries to make a strong impression, so as to attract strong people.

[electric sheep]

ok, ok, you got me interested in the dual type stuff. How would you figure out what I am?

[Gilly]

Gilly: if you are EIE-LIE, then your hidden agenda is to have powerful friends. (Se(T):Se(F) -- contacts which are strong). Does that sound like you? EIE-LIE tries to make a strong impression, so as to attract strong people.

I would say...consequential, rather than powerful. But, actually, yes.

[tcaudilllg]

ok, ok, you got me interested in the dual type stuff. How would you figure out what I am?

I need to know your interest and hobbies. And if you would rank them in order of priority, that would be really helpful. I also need to know what you most avoid doing (that isn't illegal), and why.

[electric sheep]

Well I'm interested in politics. Not so much the theoretical aspects, but the people and personalities involved. I always watch the Daily Show and the Colbert Report. They're the only TV shows I watch regularly, with the occasional Rachel Maddow or Keith Olberman.

I'm a pragmatist though. I'm a democrat out of convenience and with the hope that they will bring public health insurance to the United States.

I'm a computer science major because I didn't know what to major in, and I thought computers is a broad enough field so I could find a job with whoever I wanted.

I'm more social than most people in my computer science classes. So I guess socializing is kind of a hobby for me. I teach an introduction to office software class at my university. I like helping people learn something new.

I save money for traveling, I like to learn about other cultures.

[Rubicon]

Tcaud! Wha//t abou///t me? (-:

what you are good at

music (playing the piano and violin), drawing (portraits) - don't enjoy the process so much though (too tedious copying something exactly, working out proportions etc), uh.. going with the flow socially :-p, umm.. taking care of aesthetic details (e.g. decorating, setting up a room for entertainment purposes..), editing writings

what kinds of work you enjoy / career

within the field of music I like performing - being a soloist appeals to me in that I can do things how I want to/ play around in the moment (not have to think about teamwork etc), performing as part of a group appeals to me in terms of the atmosphere - it's more comfortable not being the center of attention / can feel awesome if we're all on the same page, accompanying other musicians - because I find it easy to tune into someone else's rhythm / I can relax and daydream (because I'm not the show) :-p ... not as satisfying though

your hobbies

roadtripping, bushwalking (with people), composing music (preferably with someone, for their input/ideas), cooking, exploring new places, swimming in the ocean, playing some sports, reading non-factual material (ooh.. socionics!), doing anything with people I like really - I may draw the line at scraping paint off windows though (erm though even then, if we're joking around..)

whether you enjoy athletic sports

some.. with friends though - soccer, football, basketball, meh I'll try anything really :-p

what you are notably bad at / careers you think you would fail in

telemarketing :-p, any type of sales position which involves me having to talk up the product, teaching (unless it's demonstrating something), debt-collecting, working at a lemonade stand, accountant...

what you'd most avoid doing

getting in people's faces

[tcaudilllg]

Musical composition tends to be associated with beta Fe EM. Needing to copy a drawing tends to be associated with 2D Te EM. Looks like ENFj EM type.

[Rubicon]

Musical composition tends to be associated with beta Fe EM. Needing to copy a drawing tends to be associated with 2D Te EM. Looks like ENFj EM type.

What does EM stand for? What does 2D mean? :-p

[tcaudilllg]

Function dimensions. A 2D function can process social normatives (2nd dimension) and experience (1st dimension). Dimensions were discovered in socionics about two decades ago, and are used to explain what makes some functions strong and others weak.

Why the functions have dimensions is another matter. In my experience, the 1st and 2nd dimensions can't reconcile opposing viewpoints of an information element on their own; they have to "learn" how by getting an example to follow that has been previously worked out at the 3rd or 4th dimensions. This is half the reason duality offers the most satisfying psychological complementarity. (the other half is that your dual isn't bothered enough by your PoLR to insist that you use it, whereas your conflictor is).

For reference, although the EM (energy metabolism) and IM types use different information processors, they use the same functional positions, meaning that a 1D EM function is limited in the same ways that a 1D IM function is limited.

[tcaudilllg]

I'd like to draw your attention to the Wikipedia bashing thread. It turns out that Wikipedia has something of an integral... EM type?

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ng-thread.html

[Rubicon]

Function dimensions. A 2D function can process social normatives (2nd dimension) and experience (1st dimension). Dimensions were discovered in socionics about two decades ago, and are used to explain what makes some functions strong and others weak.

Why the functions have dimensions is another matter. In my experience, the 1st and 2nd dimensions can't reconcile opposing viewpoints of an information element on their own; they have to "learn" how by getting an example to follow that has been previously worked out at the 3rd or 4th dimensions. This is half the reason duality offers the most satisfying psychological complementarity. (the other half is that your dual isn't bothered enough by your PoLR to insist that you use it, whereas your conflictor is).

For reference, although the EM (energy metabolism) and IM types use different information processors, they use the same functional positions, meaning that a 1D EM function is limited in the same ways that a 1D IM function is limited.

So 2D Te is weak Te?

[Rubicon]

I'd like to draw your attention to the Wikipedia bashing thread. It turns out that Wikipedia has something of an integral... EM type?

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ng-thread.html

Needing something in front of me in order to get the proportions correct .. erm I think you jumped to conclusions there. :-p I think it's normal for someone to have their subject in front of them in order to draw an accurate portrait? :-p I don't have a photographic memory. I was just meaning that I didn't enjoy the tedium involved in making a drawing as true-to-life as possible. I'm also female.

[tcaudilllg]

Needing something in front of me in order to get the proportions correct .. erm I think you jumped to conclusions there. :-p I think it's normal for someone to have their subject in front of them in order to draw an accurate portrait? :-p I don't have a photographic memory. I was just meaning that I didn't enjoy the tedium involved in making a drawing as true-to-life as possible. I'm also female.

The test of strong delta Te EM is whether or not you can draw something you have imagined directly to the paper just as you see it. 3D Te(S) concentrates on assembling parts, and is optimal at drawing portraits and characters. 4D Te(S) can see an entire imaginary vista, and is apt at drawing landscape paintings.

Using Te(S) for drawing requires using Ne(T) IM to relate the points in the context of imagined space. The dimensionality of Ne(T) in this context is irrelevant, and is only a determinant of how hard the individual needs to concentrate to perform the artistic work. The lower the Ne(T) function's dimensionality, the more abstract the preferred work of the artist tends to be.

[Rubicon]

The test of strong delta Te EM is whether or not you can draw something you have imagined directly to the paper just as you see it. 3D Te(S) concentrates on assembling parts, and is optimal at drawing portraits and characters. 4D Te(S) can see an entire imaginary vista, and is apt at drawing landscape paintings.

Using Te(S) for drawing requires using Ne(T) IM to relate the points in the context of imagined space. The dimensionality of Ne(T) in this context is irrelevant, and is only a determinant of how hard the individual needs to concentrate to perform the artistic work. The lower the Ne(T) function's dimensionality, the more abstract the preferred work of the artist tends to be.

Ah.. well I'm terrible at drawing directly from my imagination. If I conceived of something in my head that I wanted to draw, it'd be too hazy for words - actually it wouldn't even be a mental picture :-P .. just an idea of what I wanted to draw. I'd have to reference pictures of various objects that I wanted to use in my drawing.

[The Exception]

Any further thoughts on my dual type?

[tcaudilllg]

Here's a question: what kind of person makes a good librarian?

@Rubicon: I would suggest reading the dimensionality articles in the Articles section.

[Nexus]

Ti-ISTj
Theoretical Physics
Electronics Technician / Reactor Operator in the United States Navy
Composing Music
Yes
N/A

[The Exception]

Here's a question: what kind of person makes a good librarian?

@Rubicon: I would suggest reading the dimensionality articles in the Articles section.

LII's make good librarians. That's why its called a LIIbrarian.

[The Exception]

Here's a question: what kind of person makes a good librarian?

@Rubicon: I would suggest reading the dimensionality articles in the Articles section.

The only dimensionality article I could find was at Dimensionality of functions - Wikisocion

The idea of it sounds interesting but there's not a whole of information here. What would be helpful is some explanation with specific examples of how each dimension of each of the 8 informational elements plays out in everyday life.

[tcaudilllg]

The paper is around somewhere... It's by Eglit and is on one of the Russian sites. For reference, it's the one which uses a folder tree interface on the left side.

Edit:
Eglit IM, Pyatnitskii VV "Исследование страхов в одномерных функциях". "Investigation of fears in one-dimensional functions.
http://www.socionicasys.ru/userimage...ski_Strahi.zip

[tcaudilllg]

Ah.. well I'm terrible at drawing directly from my imagination. If I conceived of something in my head that I wanted to draw, it'd be too hazy for words - actually it wouldn't even be a mental picture :-P .. just an idea of what I wanted to draw. I'd have to reference pictures of various objects that I wanted to use in my drawing.

Precisely. (but why?)

[silverchris9]

Hey, Tcaudillg... I'd love to know my dual type. Any chance you'd dual-type me if I give you enough info, the right sort of info, etc.? Also, is there somewhere I can go read about dual-type, function dimensions, "energy metabolism", and all that stuff?

[tcaudilllg]

Hey, Tcaudillg... I'd love to know my dual type. Any chance you'd dual-type me if I give you enough info, the right sort of info, etc.? Also, is there somewhere I can go read about dual-type, function dimensions, "energy metabolism", and all that stuff?

Sure. Just fill out the questionnaire at the beginning of the thread. (Here it is for your convenience)

Things I need to know to diagnose your dual-type:
- your sociotype
- what you are good at
- what kinds of work you enjoy / career
- your hobbies
- whether you enjoy athletic sports
- what you are notably bad at / careers you think you would fail in
- what you try to avoid doing.
- what a romantic relationship most means to you. Your criterion for leaving / recognizing when a relationship isn't working out.

You can read all about it by clicking the Progressive Socionics link in my sig.

[Rubicon]

Precisely. (but why?)

Uh.. rhetorical?

[tcaudilllg]

Uh.. rhetorical?

I was alluding to how little we know about dimensionality.