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Thread: Duality: feeling unworthy or intimidated by your dual?

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    Default Duality: feeling unworthy or intimidated by your dual?

    Do you feel "unworthy" of or intimidated by your dual's awesomeness? And if you do, is it mostly [or only] in the beginning stages of the relationship?

    I have read before in duality description someplace that it can happen, but I'm curious about people's irl experience with this... so, do ya?

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    I've generally considered myself to be a worthy person, I just don't expect others to be able to know that, so I can be taken aback when someone thinks highly of me when it seems to me there hadn't been a lot to judge me on. Alternatively, I rue far too much about how much I should push my cause in order to show my worth, especially seeing as doing so may well give an inaccurate representation of myself that I will be unable to sustain.

    In my limited experience, my relationships are formed after it is already established what sort of people we are...I suppose it would be more correct to say that a relationship starts as soon as you encounter the other person.

    I've never felt unworthy or intimidated because of any awesomeness on the part of the other person - it has only ever been feeling full of worry in the grand scheme of things that has brought me down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoapOfSapphire View Post
    Do you feel "unworthy" of or intimidated by your dual's awesomeness?
    lol, yes. These thoughts don't really affect RL relationships much, but it's not uncommon for me to wonder if I'm offering anything equally awesome or valuable to them.

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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte View Post
    lol, yes. These thoughts don't really affect RL relationships much, but it's not uncommon for me to wonder if I'm offering anything equally awesome or valuable to them.
    I know what you mean lol
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    Half the time I feel inferior to them. The other half is spent worrying about them getting the idea they are inferior.

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    in a word, yes.

    Even though I consider myself an awesome person, I do have the feeling of how can I possibly measure up to them? And I don't think it affects the relationships negatively. I think it causes an underlying respect between both parties which aids the relationship in the long run. So it's a good thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    in a word, yes.

    Even though I consider myself an awesome person, I do have the feeling of how can I possibly measure up to them? And I don't think it affects the relationships negatively. I think it causes an underlying respect between both parties which aids the relationship in the long run. So it's a good thing.
    Something about playing to your strengths.

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    I tend not to notice my duals, in that they seem to be fairly average and unexceptional people. Then duality kicks in, and they're cool, fairly average, and unexceptional people that I like a lot and get on very well with

    Interestingly, though, my mysterious SLI totally went through the insecurity thing with me, and I definitely followed suite, strangely. Anyway, I think what happened was Gul, in his shining armor of loving-ness, atop his dazzling steed of kindness, appeared during a pretty rough time for her. This brought about mixed awe (or something overpowering... I think that's what the "love" was) and feelings of inadequacy, or so I understand. My issues were internal and not really brought about by any traits or behaviours of the SLI. My point is I don't think it necessarily has anything to do with duality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    My point is I don't think it necessarily has anything to do with duality.
    well maybe not in your experience. But I can totally see how it would have plenty to do with duality. look at it this way: the thing you need most (dual-seeking function) is what they ARE without even thinking about it. Therefore they come across as being, well, awesome and offering what you're looking for without even trying. You, in turn, are doing the same for them, only it's hard for you to see this, as you are only being yourself, not "trying" to be awesome or meet their needs or any of that. This is the beauty of duality. You being you=someone else thinking you're amazing and vice versa. ahhhhh....
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    @rb: I meant that my situation and the feelings of inadequacy within that were not related to duality. I can't speak for in general.

    I think I'm just in a really flat mood today, too. No DUALS ARE MAGICAL is readily springing to mind, therefor.

    EDIT

    I lied. In general, my duals do not make me feel unworthy.
    Last edited by male; 11-16-2009 at 01:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoapOfSapphire View Post
    Do you feel "unworthy" of or intimidated by your dual's awesomeness? And if you do, is it mostly [or only] in the beginning stages of the relationship?

    I have read before in duality description someplace that it can happen, but I'm curious about people's irl experience with this... so, do ya?
    The idea of me not being worthy of some person is alien to me. I also do not understand the fact that I can be "too good" to someone, the idea is strange and hardly understandable to me but I know some people felt that way.
    Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.

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    Oh, no, no way, I am so awesome.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola aka Bee's Avatar
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    Of course not! I need to be there to tell them they are awesome and care for them
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    Not really.... if anything it's actually the opposite, I overvalue myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoapOfSapphire View Post
    Do you feel "unworthy" of or intimidated by your dual's awesomeness?
    I don't feel unworthy nor am I intimidated.
    I am however motivated to become a better version of myself. Just like in "As good as it gets" I think something on the lines of: "You make me want to be a better man".


    I view unworthiness and intimidations as "decoupling" or "alienation" feelings. Duality never felt like that to me.
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    I think I've read somewhere that in duality the Introvert feels somewhat unworthy of their dual at first. However I think that if you feel unworthy of someone then you might have a sense of low self-worth...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoapOfSapphire View Post

    I have read before in duality description someplace that it can happen,
    I think if you reread it, that it says: the introvert thinks he's not good enough for the extravert, the extravert thinks that the introvert is not good enough for him.

    So it sucks to be an introvert. You have to persuade the extravert a bit.

    And yes, in reality, in the beginning it works like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    I think if you reread it, that it says: the introvert thinks he's not good enough for the extravert, the extravert thinks that the introvert is not good enough for him.

    So it sucks to be an introvert. You have to persuade the extravert a bit.

    And yes, in reality, in the beginning it works like this.
    I don't think that extroverts feel that way. I'm pretty sure I never felt that way - but I have seen and experienced introverts feeling that way. It doesn't really make initiative easier for us, since the I will be even more shy than how he-she normally is.
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    I've actually always liked SLIs. There have been many in the past I've had a crush on, but my biggest problem was figuring out what to say to them. We never seemed to have much in common, and they were super quiet, so that just made it worse...

    Oh, and yeah, in the beginning I usually feel like I have nothing to offer them. I'm jabber-y, distracted, restless...
    IEE

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    I've actually always liked SLIs. There have been many in the past I've had a crush on, but my biggest problem was figuring out what to say to them. We never seemed to have much in common, and they were super quiet, so that just made it worse...

    Oh, and yeah, in the beginning I usually feel like I have nothing to offer them. I'm jabber-y, distracted, restless...
    I'm pretty similar to this. Jabber-y is an excelellent word! I was like that in the beginning w/ my bf, just rambling on and on, and I wondered how he could possibly stand that. I still talk a lot, but not that much. I wondered if he thought I was an idiot for a while, since I was saying such random/absurd things. Luckily he didn't think that, to my surprise.

    But I guess there was a stage where I thought he was way smarter/more logical than me and that sorta intimidated me a bit.

    It's true that I don't notice SLIs in groups at first...or if I do notice them I think "what an awesome person (that other people would get along with), and I prob wouldn't have much to say to them."

    Though after learning this, I'm much faster to spot SLIs and also to see past that exterior and realize that there is in fact someone really fun/nice underneath that cold exterior thingy.

    The only time I really feel "less than" is if someone starts playing games w/ me, or not wanting to see me, or blowing me off. Then I will start to think maybe I suck, but at that point things are pretty much over anyway.
    Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I don't think that extroverts feel that way. I'm pretty sure I never felt that way - but I have seen and experienced introverts feeling that way. It doesn't really make initiative easier for us, since the I will be even more shy than how he-she normally is.
    I'm pretty sure the extroverts I know don't/didn't feel that way, even in the beginning.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Not at all. How can anyone survive without a square or a circle? It seems like they need me more than I need them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
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    Fuck to the no.


    Does peanutbutter feel unworthy of jelly?
    Do peas feel unworthy of carrots?

    No, they just go together, and that's that.
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akra View Post
    That massive deflating sound you just heard was the multitude of Diana-like NFs out there who just sighed reading this.
    why?

    it's just quotation of russian duality description.

    Diana is ESI not NF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akra View Post
    I was referring to the string of NFs who did the "ditto" thing to her comment, not that she's NF herself. It looks like my attempt at lightheartedly commenting on the convergence of the two pieces of information was missed.

    Basically, it's kind of a disheartening combination: being a person of a type that has to self-advocate to their dual to be noticed, but also being a person who'd never self-advocate in the first place.
    I've never had to self-advocate to be noticed by my dual, whether male or female. I've only known four SLEs in my life but they all sort of found me.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    I wonder if the Caregiver/Infantile and Aggressor/Victim dichotomies play any role in this. It seems, from reading this thread so far, that Infantiles tend to feel unworthy of Caregivers at first.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    I wonder if the Caregiver/Infantile and Aggressor/Victim dichotomies play any role in this. It seems, from reading this thread so far, that Infantiles tend to feel unworthy of Caregivers at first.
    hm, good observation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    I wonder if the Caregiver/Infantile and Aggressor/Victim dichotomies play any role in this. It seems, from reading this thread so far, that Infantiles tend to feel unworthy of Caregivers at first.
    I pity anyone who has the misfortune of being my dual.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    I wonder if the Caregiver/Infantile and Aggressor/Victim dichotomies play any role in this. It seems, from reading this thread so far, that Infantiles tend to feel unworthy of Caregivers at first.
    Hmm, I would say perhaps something like this: victims > infantiles > caregivers. Then Ne PoRL's, because with their low ability to see "potentiality", they cannot see their own "potentiality" (IOW: They cannot measure their own self-worth accurately; either static ethical self worth (Ne + Fi) or static "objective" self-worth (Ne + Ti)). Finally the ESxp's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I've never had to self-advocate to be noticed by my dual, whether male or female. I've only known four SLEs in my life but they all sort of found me.


    *goes on dual hunt...*

    Never, haha.
    IEI, sp/sx 4w3.

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    My duals are clumsy.

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    I can play it off incredibly well, but beta ST's can be so intimidating to me.
    Specifically, ISTj's. And I guess that is part of duality, yes? Feeling intimidated by your dual and their "world." Their energy is so forceful, and is very attractive to me. Essentially, they have strengths that I don't have, and watching them interact with the world and execute their talents so effortlessly makes me feel such admiration for them, that I get nervous inside.
    I wonder if they feel the same way about Beta NF's?

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    I often get down on myself for not looking perfect or desirable physically and just good to the sensory LSE. I had a heart to heart with myself and I had to think of what to do next. What I want and how to I get it. I figured I had to show the side of me that most women are not to my duals. They are not x, y, z but I asked what i am and how do I come off that way. My extravert friends helped pull together a dating profile that was just right and I wrote one that pretty much knocked off the men who didn't fit the traits then I waited for the right ones. Of these there were extremely immature and heartless LSE who want just to have sex. I had to wait patiently. I did. Two years past since my last nightmare and i couldn't be happier this day. I argue with LSE who wants to perfect me..."wear this, color your hair like this" I say "no" I'm perfect the way I am. I demand respect for how I am and want to be. Though there are a lot of gorgeous women all spiffied up to the 9s every day I stand confidently watching myself and proud to day that looks aren't everything. I give LSE what they need...stability of relationship, overlook and accept their grumpiness, indecisiveness, demanding, controlling, authoritarian nature and recognize their troubeling emotions and talk about it, give them space, support their interests and suggest new things to do. I'm calm , confident, and I don't take anyone's attitude without gently getting them to understand options in behavior.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 11-19-2014 at 05:53 PM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
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    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    ..... I say "no" I'm perfect the way I am. I demand respect for how I am ....
    I think you are on target with that Maritsa because I think its the self confidence that appeals more than the hairstyle to a guy. (Reasonable exceptions of course!)

    I pulled two other quotes out of context to make a point:

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I often get down on myself for not looking perfect or desirable physically and just good to the sensory LSE.....
    ...Though there are a lot of gorgeous women all spiffied up to the 9s ...
    This reminds me of the truth that men and women have different views on woman's beauty. And that so much of what we women tend to want to obsess with concerning our looks is not what a guy cares about anyway. I first read this some years ago when I was obsessing over what to do about me to improve my marriage. I realized how true it is. So after reading what you wrote here, Maritsa, I went to find that old quote. But I prefer not to cite the book because I think the author is brilliant on some thoughts but quite misleading on others. So here is the little gem of truth I want to share. I am rewriting it for you:

    "Haven't you been puzzled at times to know what a certain man sees in a particular woman? To you she doesn't hold any appeal, yet the man may be enchanted. The fascination a man feels for a certain woman seems to be an eternal riddle to the rest of her sex. Even when asked why the man seems to find himself at a loss to explain the spell cast upon him. And, haven't you also known women who appear to have all the qualities that ought to please a man, yet they are unappreciated, neglected, and often unloved? So... remember that a man judges with a different set of values.

    "Women are inclined to appreciate poise, talent, intellectual gifts, and cleverness of personality, whereas men admire girlishness, tenderness, sweetness of character, vivacity, and the ability to understand men. A marked difference is in regard to appearance. Women are inclined to admire artistic beauty such as the shape of a face, the nose, and artistic clothes. Men, however, have a different interpretation of what makes a woman beautiful. They place more stress on the sparkle in her eyes, smiles, freshness, radiance, and her feminine manner."


    While her descriptors may be old-fashioned, I still think there is something to this. How we women judge beauty is different from how guys do. I think a women spiffed up to the 9s, for example, is more ideal to us than to a man, in general.

    _____________
    Editing to add: Another reason why these words had come to mind is the surprise and sadness that you could be concerned about your looks. You are beautiful! Tons of women would love to look like you!
    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 11-19-2014 at 10:03 PM.

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    I loved my dual. It's a give-and-take.

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    Not really, no.
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    Feeling quite implacably dual-less atm. My "duals" are people I can sketch a form of connection with.

    Socionics should be smashed naked and empty of all its BS. (I can't wait for some Gamma SF to show up and tell me how I'm mid-way between 584 and 648).

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    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
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    On romantic dual:

    No feelings of unworthiness about my personality no. As a young person, oh yeah for sure tons of feelings of unworthiness in general, not just with supposed duals. That's common though, no worries there for yourself dude.

    On other factors, oh yeah....

    If they knew how much of a mess I was, would they still like me? If they saw how scattered brain I was would they stick around? Do they know what I do before I see them; the deep valleys I walk, the high mountain ridges? Would my zig zagged behaviour confuse them? Worry them? Hurt them? Make them want me? Make them not? Would they see the real me? If they know how I really was, would they want that? And more importantly, need that? Would they want me in their life, especially if they have more then me? Do I have enough money to be in their league? I'm a good looking enough? Do I take care of my body enough? Do I dress the right way? Is my life directed enough for them? Do they know how I'm often hanging by a string? Can they put up with change? Can I put up with change? Where is this going? Will I measure up to what they want? Will they worry I'm not what they want/expect? Will I always feel thrilled by them? Can I handle them? Why did they not call? Should I continue? Should I wait? How do they want me to behave?

    I realize some of this list is introversion/extroversion. It does get easier to relax and trust and not listen to the insecurities certainly as I met a new dual. (don't ask me my type I don't know and in the socionics paradigm does the typology matter? a dual is a dual).

    Because much of this list comes from feeling unworthy in life, it's okay maybe cause that keeps you going. Frustration at myself is a catalyst for change. I have a hard time knowing if someone likes me if they are not somehow showing it. Acting happy and calling me up helps me believe cause I don't always believe. Wanting me around also helps. Including me in the adventures is such a signpost and I have learned never to be intimadated by the rush of new experiences when they move quickly. If someone doesn't want me around often then I begin to doubt how they really feel about me. Then I wonder if it's cause I'm unworthy. I don't know what other people think but I think THIS IS DANGEROUS thinking. Maybe I was unworthy to them, but I am not unworthy myself. I'm awesome. This line of thinking: it happened a lot more when I was inexperienced in dating

    However, the same list of insecurities still come up each and every time. Duality is a process, NOT a guarantee. In relationships, their are very few guarantees, especially in the beginning.

    You need to value yourself because if you value yourself you do not feel unworthy, nor intimidated. But the catch 22 here is that in order to value yourself you need to try in the first place in order to gain value and self-worth.

    Eventually you become so certain of yourself, born from experiences. Even the burns make you more certain. I can guarantee that. ALSO, lightening up and having fun. Its happening as it should.
    Last edited by wacey; 11-19-2014 at 10:49 PM.

  39. #39

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    i feel unworthy around anyone i really like. i don't trust anyone to stay

    duality is scary in so far as- there's not much you can really hide if you get closer. but that's also what makes it liberating

  40. #40
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    nicely said, lemontrees.

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