Alpha's not THAT flaky

[Blaze]

quoting from those how do quadras view each other threads:

Alpha: Betas tend to regard Alpha types as pleasant company, fun, creative, and generators of ideas, but too goofy and present-oriented, lacking focus and ambition, needing to be led.


Alpha: Gammas tend to perceive Alpha types as creative, generally well-meaning, and friendly and pleasant people, especially as a group, as a first impression. Later, Gammas tend to see Alphas as lacking ambition in the longer term, overly concerned with sensorial pleasure and comfort, and overly demanding of, and sensitive to, external emotional expression without making much effort to focus on deeper feelings involved.

Alpha: Deltas tend to see Alpha types as fun company and interesting people to discuss ideas and prospects with, but naive and inconsistent in their personal and business relationships. Alpha types seem to lack the common sense to turn their fun and creative energy into something productive and often seem overly idealistic.


or are we? discuss!

[UDP]

What does flaky mean?

[Blaze]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/flaky

[UDP]

ISFps are horrible at business matters. But then again, the only IXFX that is ahead of the rest would be ISFj, maybe.
ESFjs are very nice, but can be smart about it, if they consider being such a virtue
INTjs - not my place to say. Seem good, but some can be very Si sensitive, with low intestinal fortitude.
ENTps - perhaps the most varied out of all of them.

[Blaze]

beta view:

i don't think alpha needs to be led. we can set goals, pursue them, and achieve them quite easily.


gamma view:

alphas can express feelings quite easily on the SF side and when needed on the NT side.

intj's and entp's lacking ambition? i don't think so. and esfj's know what they want, no doubt.


delta view:

naive, maybe just a little. but inconsistent? not really. idealistic? only when setting goals and determining values. productive? we're pretty productive. when i look at the alpha quadra people i know, they've definitely made some significant contributions and material gains.

the other thing is to we really view people as "quadras"? i mean, how often do you see a quadra of people hanging about? i'm not sure this takes place all that often. "quadra" is a pretty theoretical construct, IME.

[Expat]

beta view:

i don't think alpha needs to be led. we can set goals, pursue them, and achieve them quite easily.

I don't doubt it, the real question is whether Betas see it that way.

gamma view:

alphas can express feelings quite easily on the SF side and when needed on the NT side.

The text never implied otherwise.

intj's and entp's lacking ambition? i don't think so. and esfj's know what they want, no doubt.

The question is how the focus on Si-Ne is seen from the PoV of Se-Ni, fairly or unfairly.

delta view:

naive, maybe just a little. but inconsistent? not really. idealistic? only when setting goals and determining values. productive? we're pretty productive. when i look at the alpha quadra people i know, they've definitely made some significant contributions and material gains.

That's not the point.

the other thing is to we really view people as "quadras"? i mean, how often do you see a quadra of people hanging about? i'm not sure this takes place all that often. "quadra" is a pretty theoretical construct, IME.

It is a simplification of reality, like the types, even more so.

[Blaze]

@expat: this was not a criticism of your posts.

rather a check. :-) i'm aware that it's a perception thing. the flaw is that the perceptions of the other quadras about alpha is that they are too similar, and that alpha is truly not congruent with those perceptions.

alphas can and do express the deeper feelings also. *holds hands up openly*

[Logos]

Yeah, but Delta's viewing Alphas as inconsistent? Alphas type are probably the most consistently true to themselves and between others.

[Exodus]

Fi and Ti both have a kind of consistency unto themselves.

beta view:

i don't think alpha needs to be led. we can set goals, pursue them, and achieve them quite easily.

I don't doubt it, the real question is whether Betas see it that way.

Why?

[Exodus]

Fi and Ti both have a kind of consistency unto themselves.

beta view:

i don't think alpha needs to be led. we can set goals, pursue them, and achieve them quite easily.

I don't doubt it, the real question is whether Betas see it that way.

Why?

Because that's what Expat's thread was about.

Yeah, sorry, I hadn't read it yet.

[Logos]

From the How Delta Perceives Other Quadras Thread:

I agree with those. Alphas are idealistic, and they can be a bit pushy about it, like they want us to get moving toward their ideals even if we don't share them. They don't understand why we wouldn't share them I imagine because their ideals are so important to them.

I can perceive Alphas as being idealistic, and I can be idealistic myself. Those two things aren't incapable of happening at the same time. Perhaps Alphas and Deltas have different ideals.

So let's talk about Alpha Idealism sense it seems to just about be the center theme of every other Quadra perception of Alpha.

[Slacker]

OK how I see Alphas as idealists. And yes we Deltas are idealistic too.

Alphas always seem to me to be working toward some mighty personal goal, like they're always trying to improve themselves. Some Alphas in my personal life think I should try to improve myself (ie not be a stay-at-home mom and work outside the home, or go back to school and get another degree, or something else along those lines). That's what I meant by that they're idealistic and don't understand that I don't hold those same ideals. It's a personal development goal-seeking kind of idealism, and I just don't value that. If I had to guess how Alphas see Deltas, based on the Alphas I know and how they see me, my husband, and my sister, I'd say you folks see us as LAZY. Anyway, the difference between that and Delta idealism IMO is that we're more interested in saving the world or the downtrodden or something like that - it's a different kind of idealism. Although some Alphas I know get into the "saving the world" thing too. I generally get along really well with Alphas and maybe that's what we have in common. I don't know.

Alphas here talk about personal development a lot too, I've noticed.

I don't think I view Alphas as inconsistent. Hmm not seriously so anyway. I'll have to think about that more.

[Not A Communist Shill]

I think Delta, being a quadra with values, try to save the world by making things more efficient, from top-to-bottom using the current structure, while the Alpha quadra with + values want to rebuild everything with their 'utopian' values, which is not so efficient - they don't utilise the current status quo so efficiently. Alpha seems to be 'if we fail, it'll work in the end if we try, while Delta are more pragmatic about what is achievable.

[Blaze]

I think Delta, being a quadra with values, try to save the world by making things more efficient, from top-to-bottom using the current structure, while the Alpha quadra with + values want to rebuild everything with their 'utopian' values, which is not so efficient - they don't utilise the current status quo so efficiently. Alpha seems to be 'if we fail, it'll work in the end if we try, while Delta are more pragmatic about what is achievable.

yeah you're on to something here. i'd say alphas instead of trying to change the status quo, might invent new things, new ways of doing things, new ways of thinking about things. we can be persuasive...so we work towards helping people think about things differently....then THEY change the status quo. LOL