Combining Enneagram and Socionics Quadra

[DirectorAbbie]

YOU ... WHAT ... YOU WANT A FOUR ... ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MIND

Is that strange?

[Satan]

Is that strange?

yeah... you're a freak.

[redbaron]

YOU ... WHAT ... YOU WANT A FOUR ... ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MIND

seriously.

[DirectorAbbie]

yeah... you're a freak.

What's wrong with them?

[Binky]

So why want a 7 in the first place? I want a 4.

What do you like about 4s?

[electric sheep]

So why want a 7 in the first place? I want a 4.

note that 1s generally can't stand 7s.

[Creepy-male]

Like how Nines can't stand Threes? I'm not talking about me btw

[Wynch]

note that 1s generally can't stand 7s.

The feeling is mutual, lol.

[thePirate]

lol 1's love me. you just gotta learn how to work em

[redbaron]

The feeling is mutual, lol.

yeah I know a couple of 7s who really can't stand 1s.

[electric sheep]

Like how Nines can't stand Threes? I'm not talking about me btw

I don't doubt it. I pick on 9s all the time. Just look at them, sitting there doing nothing. THEY SHOULD DO SOMETHING!!@

I know this one LIE 7 that was hitting on this ESI 1. She kept shutting him down again and again, and she was not nice about it at all. It hurt me to watch.

[Wynch]

Actually, to be fair I could definitely see a 7w8 and a 1w2 hit it off (which I think is pretty logical for LIE and ESI). I think a 7w6, as the more flighty and spontaneous 7, would have way more difficulties with the structured life of a 1.

Similarly a 7w8 might have more trouble with a 9 because they want to move and many 9s might create a sense of drag for them, which is maybe where you get the sense that a 7 wouldn't want to be with a 9.

In general perhaps:

Alpha/Delta 7w6 + 3/9
Beta Gamma 7w8 + 1/4

Sorry if that's a self-centered comment, it's easiest for me to explore this from the perspective of a 7

[Gilly]

lol LSI's love me. you just gotta learn how to work em

fixed

[FDG]

Yeah, the 9 should be a cocaine addict and the 7 should be a heroin addict.

Lol, right, they'd equalize their energy levels that way

As far as 7 & 1: I personally get along better with 1s when it's really close distance. I have the biggest problem when it's mid-distance, because at that level of friendship all my stereotypical superficial 7 traits are at their highest, thus 1s get really pissed and think i'm a parygoer that earns money as a drug dealer (doesn't sound too bad, too be honest, ahha). Although I think that my 1 friends have to adapt their personality more than I, when we hang out. Sometimes I can see that they just bite their tongue because they've learnt I'll just shout back at them if they try to tell me how to act in the "right" way. I'm one of the few people able to let'em loose, thus they probably don't mind too much sacrificing some berating.

[Marie84]

Yeah, and plus, "negativism" doesn't really imply pessimism; IEEs tend to be very optimistic people, perhaps moreso about other people and their "potential" than situations, but nonetheless part of their role with Ne is to be able to say to the SLI, "Look, the worst thing that can happen is..." which, while a form of negativism, promotes a positive, experimental, action-oriented outlook. And, while 5s tend to be pessimists, (especially in terms of things such as human nature, which IEEs will combat naturally), SLIs are very grounded and realistic in a manner that, say, LII or ILI 5s are not, necessarily; they may easily get into repetitive ruts, feel bad about the world, etc, but they probably have less of a chance of spiraling downwards inwardly uncontrollably, given that their two dominant functions are external.

Similarly, an EIE 7 and an LSI 5 could make a good pairing: the EIE 7 broadens the somewhat xenophobic LSI 5's intellectual and social horizons, promotes people orientation, idealism, and involvement, while the LSI 5 is the intellectual "rock," there to catch the EIE 7 in case of panicked reversion to escapism and self-doubt, and likely bringing a sense of financial security, solidity, and much-needed routine to the relationship.

While I don't think Reinin is as reliable as Model A I can definitely see why IEE's get labeled "negativists" under it, not to mention that they have Te as a HA and Ni ignoring, which keeps them attuned to realism (to a point)

While their Ne dominance keeps them open to multitudes of novel ideas and hidden potentials in things and people it isn't always consistent. One of Rick's blog entries stated something about how Fi creatives tend to be more subjective about relations, with a tendency to leave relationships that are "bad" quite easily, since the Fi is of lesser important than the Ne or Se so it can be sacrificed.

Anyways...having an IEE mother and many close IEE friends over the years their negativism is quite noticeable when they stop feeling a need to keep up the positive facade. One thing I've noticed they do quite frequently is talk about ideas for random things (work, community, political, etc) but when asked if they'll do anything about it they almost always comment about how it's impossible or will never work, while not giving a reason as to why that is.
I'd imagine an SLI could take the ideas that are practical and than encourage/assist them in accomplishing them

[thePirate]

Anyways...having an IEE mother and many close IEE friends over the years their negativism is quite noticeable when they stop feeling a need to keep up the positive facade

Yea, I meant to post about this earlier. IEE's are alot less optimistic then they let on, much of it is a facade. If you look around, you'll see plenty of topics about IEE's and feeling fake, it comes from trying to bring too many things to too many people. I would say what gilly said is accurate; optimism is directed outwards to other people. I have optimism and faith about many things outside myself. When it comes to me, and situations I get into it it varies. Taking the average IEE, I would say scenarios naturally skew towards the negative.


Wings might have something to do with it, when I fluctuated towards 7w8 I had a distinct energy/attitude that was much different than the one I have now.

FDG, I know exactly what your talking about. 1's way of going about things and 7's don't neccessarily mesh that well, but I don't think that huge of an adjustment is neccessary. We show them how to cut loose, they make us a little more responsable, theres definitely worse outcomes possible.

I've been thinking about Fives and my experiences with them and can see how they would mesh well. I had a recent experience with one(dual), and I will say that kind of relationship produces a feeling of need and usefulness to the other person. Its also really intense compared to my relationship with 9's. With 9's(and my nine dual) I feel like I make them happy and vice-versa but I'm not neccessarily 'needed'. I don't special so to speak, like the next person can make them happy, I just happen to be the one doing it at this moment. They seem perfectly content without me. Also the neccessity to be myself isn't there, I don't feel as compelled to reveal all of myself as I do with Fives; I think that comes from the 9's conflict avoidant nature and how I react to it; it making me more tame in a way.


The Fives argumentativeness and general resistance spark up a tension with me that indirectly forces my true self out. Its like their calling "me" out, and I can actually visibly see a change in their demeanor after it happens. It's not as peaceful as my relationship with 9's, but I dont think its neccessarily a bad thing. My relationship with 9's(duals) is alot more like a semi-dual relationship, where its alot of fun and laughing. Except, we end up doing alot of things, but its not readily apparent. After the day is over and recounting the details, thats where you realize everything thts been happening; its subtle in that way. Its really smooth interactions.

With Fives the focus is alot more on self-improvement, and I guess it might be more like the ISTp-ENFp dual descriptions. It happens very very naturally, I think its because of the added tension, theres a sense of 'friendly competitiveness' that really pushes us both. Thins are also more in your face, you know whats going on, the roles are clear, theres less of a blur going on then with 9's. Its not as peaceful, in the sense of tranquility, but its definitely more thrilling. This being said, I agree with mn0good's assertion, I can definitely see the drag you're talking about. Being pushed to 8 wing, I was alot more focused on getting things done, working towards getting them done, and less on having fun and goofing off. I've been thinking that 7w8 correlates with Fi, my Se takes a definite increase and I tend to think alot less about things, and theres MUCH less complications, worries, and doubts. My relationship with a certain 9 did decline during this period, while my friendship with the 5 became stronger. I dont have extensive experience with Fives but under this it would make sense that :

7w8 pairs better with Fives - A relationship more focused on self improvement and growth
(ENFp-Fi ISTp-Te)

7w6 pairs better with Nines - A relationship more focused on having fun and goofing off
(ENFp-Ne ISTp-Si)

As for ENFp's I don't see that many 7w8's, so I think the 9 would do them nicely as a general rule of thumb

[duality is cringe]

7w8 pairs better with Fives - A relationship more focused on self improvement and growth
(ENFp-Fi ISTp-Te)

7w6 pairs better with Nines - A relationship more focused on having fun and goofing off
(ENFp-Ne ISTp-Si)

That's very interesting and somewhat correlates with my own observations. P-sub Delta irrationals (Ne-ENFps/Si-ISTps) tend to be 7s and 9s in most cases while the J-subs (Fi-ENFps/Te-ISTps) tend to have a slightly wider variety of enneagram-sociotype match ups (higher prevalence of 6s, 5s, 3s, 2s), on a very general level.

Usually, I tend to associate ENXp 7s with 6 wing and ESXp 7s with an 8 wing, but the idea you present is interesting to consider.

As for ENFp's I don't see that many 7w8's, so I think the 9 would do them nicely as a general rule of thumb

7 and 9 Delta irrationals do just fine, I was just speaking from my own vantage point (ISTp 5), prefering a 7 dual > 9. Most ISTps (and a good portion of ENFps) are 9s anyway.

I really enjoyed reading the rest of your text as well.

[DirectorAbbie]

What do you like about 4s?

Unlike with socionics, I don't keep a hugs list of examples for each enneagram type. So I go primarily on internet information.

Fours are endearing. I need to feel needed and am a very confident person. What a 4 might struggle with isn't an issue for me, but I still understand how feeling misunderstood and self-consious would be; I wouldn't brush it off as petty like a seven's complaints or consider it anoyingly unbalanced like a 9 or 3.

Fours are also imaginitive (which is fun), and I think a 1 to support responsibility and a 4 to support originality would make great parents. As far as stackings, I'd prefer sx/sp or sp/sx.

[Satan]

Lol, right, they'd equalize their energy levels that way

As far as 7 & 1: I personally get along better with 1s when it's really close distance. I have the biggest problem when it's mid-distance, because at that level of friendship all my stereotypical superficial 7 traits are at their highest, thus 1s get really pissed and think i'm a parygoer that earns money as a drug dealer (doesn't sound too bad, too be honest, ahha). Although I think that my 1 friends have to adapt their personality more than I, when we hang out. Sometimes I can see that they just bite their tongue because they've learnt I'll just shout back at them if they try to tell me how to act in the "right" way. I'm one of the few people able to let'em loose, thus they probably don't mind too much sacrificing some berating.

I think that some 1s are frigid and some are more sexual. and the more sexual ones can be cool when the're comfortable and have got over themselves.

But like all types .. there are good and bad examples. And it's just an ego mechanism that can kind of dissipate..

[Marie84]

Yea, I meant to post about this earlier. IEE's are alot less optimistic then they let on, much of it is a facade. If you look around, you'll see plenty of topics about IEE's and feeling fake, it comes from trying to bring too many things to too many people. I would say what gilly said is accurate; optimism is directed outwards to other people. I have optimism and faith about many things outside myself. When it comes to me, and situations I get into it it varies. Taking the average IEE, I would say scenarios naturally skew towards the negative.

This has been my experience with IEE's. It isn't a bitter, hate-filled, type of negativism but more of a "it's hopeless" belief

[Shazaam]

My hate is always hopeful. I love to complain cause when I complain I take action and do something about it but I have to complain first to motivate me to change whatever I want.

[redbaron]

This has been my experience with IEE's. It isn't a bitter, hate-filled, type of negativism but more of a "it's hopeless" belief

this it totally correct in the case of my IEE mother!

[Creepy-male]

This has been my experience with IEE's. It isn't a bitter, hate-filled, type of negativism but more of a "it's hopeless" belief

I'd also like to comment that we can be totally infatuated with a project's startup and then fall flat on our faces once we lose that buzz and think "Why was I doing this again?" Perhaps this is because of getting so involved in the activity, and planning it, and effecting and executing it that you're too busy to cast your mind ahead to the implications and other dreary, depressing, demotivating futurecrap.

But yes, it's caught a couple of people I know off-guard when "Kick reason to the curb and do the impossible!" Gul who has been backing their endeavours every step of the way with brilliant enthusiasm and boundless optimism talks about how hopeless and helpless things for him are.

EDIT

It might be good to reiterate what "helplessness" means in my case. I often struggle with feeling like my important actions and decisions are ultimately inconsequential because there's always a detour through the path of least resistance that I feel almost trapped on due to a general inability to pull myself together and strain myself beyond the bare minimum (something which both of my parents have contributed to also making me feel fantastically awful about). The other thing about that detour is that nothing bad will ever happen, even if I can't mobilize myself to get to the good stuff, so my entire life is kind of just going to be this neutral drift where I have very little choice and any involvement on my part would be utterly inconsequential in either a positive or negative way.

Do you know what I find amusing about that? My sagacious dual noticed this in me far sooner than I did*. NeFi self-awareness FAIL. (Though to be fair, I'm a lot more focused on taking the knots of tension out of my mind, and that core feeling of helplessness is more a belief stemming from supreme laxity and isn't really something that actively causes me discomfort unless I directly tap it, like now (and yes, typing that all out made me feel like bad. I want an Ishahugs now :frown: ))

*I think it's an SLI thing, actually. Dave as well has made spot-on insights into my inner clockwork too. Why do they even need me?

[Suz]

What about a 9w5 with a 7w8?

[Satan]

What about a 9w5 with a 7w8?

there's no such thing as a 9w5.

[Suz]

there's no such thing as a 9w5.

what do you mean? I'm a 9w5!

[Morcheeba]

there's no such thing as a 9w5.

hehehe, the interaction between you two is quite entertaining.
I think what she means to say is she works 9 to 5.

[Marie84]

I'd also like to comment that we can be totally infatuated with a project's startup and then fall flat on our faces once we lose that buzz and think "Why was I doing this again?" Perhaps this is because of getting so involved in the activity, and planning it, and effecting and executing it that you're too busy to cast your mind ahead to the implications and other dreary, depressing, demotivating futurecrap.

But yes, it's caught a couple of people I know off-guard when "Kick reason to the curb and do the impossible!" Gul who has been backing their endeavours every step of the way with brilliant enthusiasm and boundless optimism talks about how hopeless and helpless things for him are.

EDIT

It might be good to reiterate what "helplessness" means in my case. I often struggle with feeling like my important actions and decisions are ultimately inconsequential because there's always a detour through the path of least resistance that I feel almost trapped on due to a general inability to pull myself together and strain myself beyond the bare minimum (something which both of my parents have contributed to also making me feel fantastically awful about). The other thing about that detour is that nothing bad will ever happen, even if I can't mobilize myself to get to the good stuff, so my entire life is kind of just going to be this neutral drift where I have very little choice and any involvement on my part would be utterly inconsequential in either a positive or negative way.

Do you know what I find amusing about that? My sagacious dual noticed this in me far sooner than I did*. NeFi self-awareness FAIL. (Though to be fair, I'm a lot more focused on taking the knots of tension out of my mind, and that core feeling of helplessness is more a belief stemming from supreme laxity and isn't really something that actively causes me discomfort unless I directly tap it, like now (and yes, typing that all out made me feel like bad. I want an Ishahugs now :frown: ))

*I think it's an SLI thing, actually. Dave as well has made spot-on insights into my inner clockwork too. Why do they even need me?

Do you think this has a lot to do with PoLR?
I'm thinking that maybe this complex involves a fear of not knowing how to deal with the logical steps, organization and preparation needed in order to accomplish the ideas...?
I read this bit, on Ti in IEE's, on Filatova's description and it seems to point towards that
"Regime, duty, regulations, accountability, all disarm her. Finds it difficult to be inscribed in any framework. Works exclusively based on her mood, is better able to focus on ‘big picture’ work than to be occupied by thorough study."

[Suz]

hehehe, the interaction between you two is quite entertaining.
I think what she means to say is she works 9 to 5.

pshhh, i WISH i worked 9 to 5!!

Anyway, mercutio kind of cleared things up last night in chat. Apparently I was interpreting my results inaccurately. I'm still an enneagram 9 IEI, though! I'm a little bit of everything.

[Galen]

Just sounds like someone on personalitycafe hates 8s.

[Absurd]

And this is unacceptable.