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Thread: If you had to choose your own PoLR

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    Si polr would be my heaven. It seems so normal ..why would anyone wanna value Si lol

    -- and in such instances Socionics kind of contradicts itself , to say the least, coz this is actually the function I personally value least, although it's not my polr. I actually like Ne ..in other people ...unless it interferes with something important that has to be done or it's just a waste of time (random brainstorming when one should get out of a crisis etc. )

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    The most inauspicious seem to be Fi polr, Ti polr, and Te polr. And Ne polr in LSI lol

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    Initially I would say Se polr. But since I love HP thinking, that would make me LII, and while I like LIIs, I wouldn't want to be Te ignoring, nor Fe seeking.
    I guess I'll have to stick with the craziness of being IEE. At least one can take classes to improve their 1D Ti some.
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    Ti PoLR seems like it wouldn't be too bad.
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    Fe polr really isn't too bad...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agni View Post
    Si polr would be my heaven. It seems so normal ..why would anyone wanna value Si lol

    -- and in such instances Socionics kind of contradicts itself , to say the least, coz this is actually the function I personally value least, although it's not my polr. I actually like Ne ..in other people ...unless it interferes with something important that has to be done or it's just a waste of time (random brainstorming when one should get out of a crisis etc. )
    sadly, I don't know either. I like Si but I think in another universe I wouldn't mind living w/o it.

    but try to take away my Fe and I will claw you to death lol

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    Most of them seem shitty. I wouldn't mind being IEI or a Se-sub. I also wouldn't mind being something other than 9w1 would be nice also.

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    Si PoLR. Or Fi PoLR.

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    umm let's see, Fi PoLR = no weaknesses. ya, I think I'll keep it.

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    ti polr? i don't know if i've ever seen how it's so terrible. all the others seem terrible, but not that one. i don't feel competent in socionics and i am forgetting it more and more, but it seems any time i've read any description of ti polr i just think there isn't really a disadvantage to "that."

    although actually si polr seems heavenly like finally one would be free of mortal constraints, at least in their mind. all ("physical") suffering and all needs of the flesh - gone.

    allow me to just use more socionics terms i can never claim to understand while never attempting to explain anything i mean, making it total horseshit.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Fi probably

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Anyway, I am fine with Si PoLR. One I would not want is an intuitive PoLR. Feeling PoLR seems pretty bad for people that are around you, but it seems that the carrier is less affected.
    I agree, Fi/Fe PoLR is fine. Si PoLR is annoying; Intuitive PoLR is an handicap (please, it's nuanced, don't take my word for it even thought I mean it); Se PoLR I think is fine too but the lack of will lessen your capibility of achieving which is an hindrance.

    Ne PoLR can be fun IMO.

    Fi/Fe PoLR is the best IMO

    Edit: As for logical PoLR, this is a handicap. You can't organize or don't care about data that has no connection to you, to me this is a real weakness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Another string of self-help bullshit by Joy.

    Anyway, I am fine with Si PoLR. One I would not want is an intuitive PoLR. Feeling PoLR seems pretty bad for people that are around you, but it seems that the carrier is less affected.
    you should have seen a SLE dude I was dating talk about how his ex left him after one year of togetherness and he still had no idea why ("I didn't see it coming"). Then you should have seen him calling repeatedly and writing mails applying standard transparent Ti techniques after I put some good distance between us. He only took it all as a trick of mine to which he had to respond by pushing/chasing harder ("why are you playing with me?").

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    Edit: As for logical PoLR, this is a handicap. You can't organize or don't care about data that has no connection to you, to me this is a real weakness.
    Te polr usually seems to go in circles with their reasoning while ignoring external sources / facts. It wouldn't annoy me as much as other nuisances that come hand in hand with a base function or with the Rational/Irrational divide. I mean, IEI dude forgets his key and makes fun of a story to tell, pierces his eye with some shit while looking for stuff in boxes in the cellar, is late and then candidly tells how much fun he's had and how he's sometimes late on purpose only to have an opportunity to run after the bus and feel an adrenaline rush ..

    Ti polr is easy to cover up if you try to manipulate others each time you prove to be inconsistent in your behavior. Just that it sounds like this: "You know, my German is not level C2 yet, I gotta practice more etc...." ( insert some pronunciation mistake that one doesn't have to be a native speaker to know).."Your German is flawless!" "Trust me, there's lots of place for improvement." ""
    Last edited by Amber; 10-18-2014 at 01:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agni View Post
    Ti polr is easy to cover up if you try to manipulate others each time you prove to be inconsistent in your behavior. Just that it sounds like this: "You know, my German is not level C2 yet, I gotta practice more etc...." ( insert some pronunciation mistake that one doesn't have to be a native speaker to know).."Your German is flawless!" "Trust me, there's lots of place for improvement." ""
    I didn't get your Ti exemple. I don't see the manipulation in your exemple and who is whom? coz to me it sounds like the guy wants to be nice and ignore the mistake. Like there is something in your exemple I didn't get, just tell me

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    I didn't get your Ti exemple. I don't see the manipulation in your exemple and who is whom? coz to me it sounds like the guy wants to be nice and ignore the mistake. Like there is something in your exemple I didn't get, just tell me
    I'm the chill and realistic person and the other is the SEE I'm dating. It's not related to their inconsistencies, I just wanted to give a concrete example of how gross Fi creative manipulation can be (to my mind, maybe it works on Te ego lol). I prefer someone "brutally honest" in their criticism of any problems. But yeah, SEE is also positivist&emotivist, so ...

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    I wouldn't want an f polr because it would leave you distant from other people, and too much of life involves social interaction
    Ti polr sucks, it leads to a chaotic life
    se polr probably would have you fighting battles you don't have to, and getting treated like a weakling anyway
    I'd choose si polr overall, because si polrs tend to be quite ambitious and achieve a lot, even when unhealthy, they don't need to be comfortable to be involved in things

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    Would want
    -PoLR
    -PoLR
    -PoLR

    Would not want
    -PoLR
    -PoLR

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agni View Post
    I'm the chill and realistic person and the other is the SEE I'm dating. It's not related to their inconsistencies, I just wanted to give a concrete example of how gross Fi creative manipulation can be (to my mind, maybe it works on Te ego lol). I prefer someone "brutally honest" in their criticism of any problems. But yeah, SEE is also positivist&emotivist, so ...
    Sorry, I still didn't get it, you are the one self-criticizing and he is the "positive" guy?
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    I'm not sure it makes sense to talk about polrs as separate from other functions. If I got to choose my type I'd probably go for some other delta type, which means I'd have to answer or polr. But the combination of the polr and other functions makes a big difference to me. Being SLI seems awesome, but the other Fe polr - ILI - is one of the types I'd want to be the least. It seems like the strong sensing allows SLIs to be more confident and socially non-awkward than what ILIS tend to be, for example. And ime the strong Ne in IEEs generally makes them really open-minded/curious for alternative ways of thinking and thus less unyielding about their logically incoherent beliefs than SEEs, etc.

    polr seems the worst to me, a lot of them come across as narrow-minded and judgmental to me. Most Ne polrs I know irl are also quite conservative in their beliefs, even if they appear otherwise. And I tend to find their responses rather predictable, which makes it a bit boring..
    Last edited by willekeurig; 11-02-2014 at 10:55 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by matilda View Post
    I do think that some are worse than others. if you had to choose the most tolerable of all..

    so. two questions you might want to answer:
    • If you had to choose your own PoLR..
    • It would really suck to have the *insert PoLR here*
    I'd take as PoLR everyday. Don't like it, don't want it, don't think it's so nice to have it (expect in some rare instances). That also gives me my beloved in the Ego-department !
    Expanding on this, I don't like pushing people around or exerting authority, both self-given (which is the only one that is really) or from an external source. I'm totally into collaboration and convincing people to help / helping others out (although I suck at it, eheh ). I'm also okay with overreacting to aggressions, confrontations or being picked on: those things shouldn't happen in the first place. I'm okay with diverting all my Sensing towards myself - and reaping the benefits of it.

    As for the undesirable PoLR, I'll exclude the easy call and say I'd be sad to give myself (trust me, little to no control on your emotion and inability to evaluate relationships sucks big time - talking from experience here. Makes you vulnerable to mood shifts, being used by evil ethicals and in general failing at letting people go).

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    "I love my NE. I'm not sure 'bout anything in this world, but if there's one thing I'd bet on, is NE.
    NE is not for the faint of heart: makes you scattered, makes your mind wander around, makes you curious and wander-lusting. Makes you want to begin everything all over again, just 'cause it might plan out in a totally way.
    Embrace your NE, and it will open up a thousand worlds for ya."

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    For people who think Si-polr sounds like no big deal, I'd say that Si is something we may take for granted. The polr can get pretty ugly at its extreme. Here's an article about someone I type EIE, who was a friend/mentor of my husband and some of my friends etc.

    Their stories of the man surrounded by cases of Coca-Cola while chain-smoking long after he'd had a stroke (due to smoking) that left him wheelchair-bound are hardly alluring.

    They scare me, actually.

    The issues may not all be Si-polr-ish--some of them were generational--but yeah. Polr.

     
    DEATH OF A POET
    REJECTED NOVEMBER 2002

    Helen Hulskamp found the body. He was slumped over his writing notebook. A pen had rolled from the desk onto the floor. Tchaikovsky was playing on a loop. Her mentor and friend, William Packard, was dead.

    Hulskamp, 30, is a slim, dark-haired woman with a firm mouth and liquid brown eyes. She's a poet who earns her keep as a computer systems administrator and feeds her muse with summer workshops in Iowa and winter classes at NYU. That's where she met Packard, the wheelchair-bound, foul-mouthed poet, playwright, teacher, and founder of what was once New York most prestigious poetry magazine, the New York Quarterly.

    A man of extraordinary good looks in his youth and barely muted vigor in his old age, Packard founded the New York Quarterly in 1970 and ran it with the help of a group of cultural luminaries so bright they kept the magazine glittering for almost 25 years. W.H. Auden was on the magazine's board, as were Anne Sexton, James Dickey, Robert Lowell, Otto Preminger, Leonard Bernstein, Jose Ferrar, Alan Houseman, and Robert Penn Warren. Charles Bukowski was a particular favorite; the quarterly had been one of the first and staunchest supports of his work.

    But when Hulskamp entered Packard's world last winter, the poet was in bad shape. Paralyzed from a stroke in 1996, he hadn't been able to get the magazine out in six years. Funds, never good in the best of times, were nil, and the man who'd once driven students to fits of poetic ecstasy with his in-class theatrics was reduced to depending on others to get up and down the stairs of his 14th Street apartment.

    Hulskamp, whose small size and quiet demeanor should not be mistaken for a mouse-ish nature, moved from the ranks of extended education students to trusted confidante when, on the last day of class, Packard asked her if she would take him to his favorite diner one night that week. Many a time Hulskamp had watched her teacher wheeled off by a teenager with a wispy goatee who waited at the door for him after class.

    "I used to watch them go and wish I had the nerve to invite myself along," Hulskamp said. "But Bill terrified me. He could be brutal, pounding on the table, shouting. Once I cheated and turned in a poem I had written four years earlier. His first comment was 'When did you write this poem? Four years ago?' He had these stamps made up that said things like 'generality', which he'd stamp all over your work. But when he returned your poem, there would be a full page of comments stapled to it - careful comments - that he'd typed out with his one good arm."

    Packard's apartment, which he'd inhabited for 30 years, was as terrifying as the man himself, Hulskamp recalls. It was as dark as a cave, with brown painted walls and shaggy leopard print fabric hanging over the windows. His desk contained a boom box, a pile of notebooks, and a tin of pencils. The walls were filled with rows of books, rebound by Packard himself in brown leather. Skulls -"fake, I hoped" - lined his shelves. A huge mask of Homer loomed beside the doorway. His bed was a single metal hospital cot about five feet from his desk with a faded American flag covering the lone pillow.

    At dinner, Packard horrified her with a Freudian analysis of one of her poems, using words that "would have made a gynecologist blush," and delivered in a near bellow at a diner on 7th Avenue. Then he called over a Greek orthodox priest who was having a cup of coffee at the counter and asked him if he'd heard the joke about how to get nuns pregnant. (Dress them up like altar boys.) "I thought I was going to die," Hulskamp said. "But it turned out he was a friend of Bill's. In fact, he's speaking at the memorial service."

    After dinner, Packard insisted that Hulskamp read poetry aloud to him, his, hers, Homer's. "I was mortified," Hulskamp said. "But it's also what every poet wants: to read their work to someone paying rapt attention. For a long time I felt that would be the high point of my career as a poet."

    From then on, Hulskamp visited Packard in his 400-square-foot one-room apartment weekly, listening to him rhapsodize about Yeats and rail against MFA programs, averting her eyes when, unannounced, he relieved himself in a plastic bottle kept under his desk.

    It was Hulskamp, who inspired Packard to re-launch the New York Quarterly. Of course, there was also the matter of a promise he'd made in 1994 to his old friend, Charles Bukowski, as he lay dying of leukemia.

    " 'Packard, I'm going, but you're staying,' " Packard quoted Bukowski. " 'Promise me that you'll keep the NYQ mag going because someone's got to fight those bastards.' "

    The bastards were the MFA programs, lack luster critics, and what he called the "scruffy, poesy magazines" of contemporary poetry. Packard came of age in the era of Howl (Alan Ginsberg was a teacher and friend in San Francisco in the 1960s), when heavy drinking, sexual exploration and dirty living were the stuff that made poets' hearts beat. Even in the last days of his life, he railed against what he saw as a lack of emotion in modern poetry. He longed for a return to what he called 'excellence,' and pushed students to tears berating them to think less and feel more. "Teaching poetry is like open heart surgery," Packard said.

    With Hulskamp on board, New York Quarterly issue number 58 finally came together. Another of Packard's small entourage, Raymond Hammond, a 35-year-old a security guard for the Statue of Liberty and an aspiring poet, found an investor, and with her computer skills, Hulskamp laid out the magazine and streamlined production and sales. Packard teased her about her high tech ways, but was impressed by things like multiple font choices and multi-color printing.

    The group was rounded out by the teenager she'd watched wheel her teacher away after class all those months ago, Malachi Black, a precocious New Jersey transplant who'd been putting in two days a week with Mr. Packard since he was 14. Chain smoking in straight-backed chairs in a semi circle around Packard, the three disciples poured through the submissions (defunct though it was, the magazine was still receiving several thousand submissions a year), listened to Tchaikovsky, and talked about poetry.

    On October 29th, a Tuesday, the final copies of the New York Quarterly issue number 58 arrived at Hulskamp's Queens apartment in a 700-pound cardboard box. She sent a copy to Packard by express mail. Four days later, a box with a hundred copies under her arm, she took a cab into the city to her mentor's apartment, just a few hours too late. When Black arrived, his first question was if Packard had seen issue number 58. They hunted through the apartment but could not find the magazine.

    "I burst into tears," Hulskamp said. "Bill used to joke that he could die once this issue came out. But to think that he hadn't even had a chance to feel triumphant - that was too awful."

    Two days later, Hulskamp received a note, dated Nov. 1. It was from Packard.

    "Helen, I read through NYQ #58, cover to cover," the note read, "and found the most marvelous astonishing thing about it was not the lovely 4 color cover and formatting and variant type styles (excellent as they all are) but the poems themselves...the poems show a diversity of finesse and mastery that is so rare (or non existent) in contemporary poetry today. Thank you."

    – HEATHER CHAPLIN


    I guess I'd choose Fi-polr simply because I find people with that polr cute. (But chances are if it were mine, I wouldn't feel cute.)

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    . willekeurig's Avatar
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    I agree the way Si polr is sometimes described can make it sounds like some superpower, but judging from my EIE mom and a couple of LIE friends I definitely wouldn't want it for myself.
    My mom gets genuinely anxious over things like having to eat "all the time, human beings are a shitty design"; her inability to predict hunger or deal with it once it's there. It's really tragicomic. Usually when she has it particularly bad my SLE dad will announce she's being melodramatic and order her to eat a sandwich. She doesn't want to (she wants to wallow in self-pity, or so it seems to me) but he keeps on pushing and then after she's eaten it all's good again. Then they repeat this the next week. All in all my mom has terrible stress management skills - either she worries too much and becomes mentally paralysed, or doesn't worry enough which results in the stress building up and breaking out later. The two LIEs are quite similar to each other. Both have extreme difficulties with stuff like sticking to en even remotely normal (as in one the average alcoholic 20-something university student has) sleep pattern. Very prone to cancel meetings and even important events the last minute because they "felt tired" or "have a headache" or something of the like.

    I've also had the misfortune to sleep next to or in the same room with Si polrs (both types) on various trips etc. It's almost always been very uncomfortable. They will spin around like tops in search of a comfortable position (both before and after they've fallen asleep) or alternatively fall asleep on top of their hand and then wake up in pain after a while complaining about it.
    Last edited by willekeurig; 10-22-2014 at 08:47 PM.
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    I actually like my POLR I find it liberating not having to worry about social atmosphere and peoples emotional reactions. I don't know how you Fe users get anything done efficiently when your always concerned about everyone else's emotions. Emotions are temporary, petty, unstable, fickle, and fleeting; whatever emotions experiencing will fade in time.

    Also my POLR works to my advantage because my social instinct in my instinctual stacking is last so I didn't Fe anyway. It must be hard being INTp with social as your primary instinct.
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    Depends on my life situation. It is like asking what's worse not being able to carry a heavy load all day or work out difficult sums in ones head, it depends on what your life requires from you.

    But I do not think PoLR is as important as well honed ego functions among other things, is the simple answer to a question that I will provide and am already taking too seriously


    Edit: This thread has been in communion since 2009, it's got a longer shelf life than my microwaved hotpot, heh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agarina View Post
    I agree the way Si polr is sometimes described can make it sounds like some superpower, but judging from my EIE mom and a couple of LIE friends I definitely wouldn't want it for myself.
    My mom gets genuinely anxious over things like having to eat "all the time, human beings are a shitty design"; her inability to predict hunger or deal with it once it's there. It's really tragicomic. Usually when she has it particularly bad my SLE dad will announce she's being melodramatic and order her to eat a sandwich. She doesn't want to (she wants to wallow in self-pity, or so it seems to me) but he keeps on pushing and then after she's eaten it all's good again. Then they repeat this the next week. All in all my mom has terrible stress management skills - either she worries too much and becomes mentally paralysed, or doesn't worry enough which results in the stress building up and breaking out later. The two LIEs are quite similar to each other. Both have extreme difficulties with stuff like sticking to en even remotely normal (as in one the average alcoholic 20-something university student has) sleep pattern. Very prone to cancel meetings and even important events the last minute because they "felt tired" or "have a headache" or something of the like.

    I've also had the misfortune to sleep next to or in the same room with Si polrs (both types) on various trips etc. It's almost always been very uncomfortable. They will spin around like tops in search of a comfortable position (both before and after they've fallen asleep) or alternatively fall asleep on top of their hand and then wake up in pain after a while complaining about it.
    Ya I think it's a really good summary, agree 100% (on the LIE part). The way I manage to have regular sleep patterns is...exercise a lot so that u are tired. But then u get tired due to exercising and the cycle goes on...
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  27. #67
    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shay View Post
    Sometimes I think I must be an Fi polr as I have extremely limited close connections with others. I have difficulty with establishing close relations which I think shows even here on the forum with me having very limited connections with you all.

    If this is my polr then it is a hindrance as much of society works upon human relationship connections.
    No bud, that's not how this stuff works. I'm sorry to say.

  28. #68
    24601 ClownsandEntropy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shay View Post
    Sometimes I think I must be an Fi polr as I have extremely limited close connections with others. I have difficulty with establishing close relations which I think shows even here on the forum with me having very limited connections with you all.

    If this is my polr then it is a hindrance as much of society works upon human relationship connections.
    Yeah I dunno, Fi-polr seems alright if I get some of that wacky Ep-ness to make up for it. I dunno, Ne-polr sounds alright too - they seem grounded.
    Warm Regards,



    Clowns & Entropy

  29. #69
    Enlightened Hedonist
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    Knowing what I know now, I probably would go with . Otherwise, I'd probably go with .

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