To Extraverted Thinkers

**Arcanum** · 03-08-2006, 02:02 PM

I don't understand why I always find it painful being with extraverted thinkers (as in E*T*)... It has gotten to a point where I just don't see how I could ever actually survive frequenting with them for a long time. There is always something they do that doesn't make sense to me, and I find myself trying to understand without really finding anything. What makes this really hard is that I have a soft spot for them, and it appears to me as if this being in pain is one-sided. And it's not that I can't talk to them about what they are doing, it's that it will make me feel really stupid and uncomfortable. Of course, all this doesn't apply to ESTps (nothing personal).

I'm very interested to know this: how can introverted feelers cause pain to extraverted thinkers? Maybe there are also things that I do unconsciously that affects them. I really want to understand what goes inside your/their heads.

**FDG** · 03-08-2006, 02:05 PM

ExTx doesn't mean much, since you have

types,

types, changing the variables.

Besides, which type are you? INFj?

If you're INFj, as I think, you're probably having issues with ESTps and ENTps, which is indeed quite likely given their

PoLR. If you let me speculate further, I think most of your issues can be traced back to the ESTp type, since it's the most commonly ecountered among ExTx types.

ESTps are your conflictors, remember. It's normal for you to not get their extroverted sensing-driven actions, along with their lack of

(hell, they get on MY neves for this, I can't imagine how it'd be for an introverted feeler).

**Expat** · 03-08-2006, 02:07 PM

Are you talking about all EXTx types? So ENTj, ESTj, ENTp, ESTp?

Because as an INFj, you should welcome

I personally get along very well with my semi-duals, the INFjs, and it seems to be mutual.

Are you sure you have this problem with ENTjs and ESTjs?

**Smilingeyes** · 03-08-2006, 02:11 PM

Since the ESTps are excused and he's an IF my first supposition is that we're dealing with an INFp. This would also fit with the pain being one-sided, as the supervisor ENTj is completely oblivious of the INFps feelings and at least I personally rather like them.

And the ESTj would be the conflictor.

And I don't think I'm going to help anyone figure out how to cause maximal pain to ExTxs.

**FDG** · 03-08-2006, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Arcanum

And it's not that I can't talk to them about what they are doing, it's that it will make me feel really stupid and uncomfortable. Of course, all this doesn't apply to ESTps (nothing personal).

Upon further consideration of this line, I think you're INFp.

**Arcanum** · 03-08-2006, 02:17 PM

I mean ESTJ, ENTP. ESTP is my conflictor. ENTJ I haven't gotten a chance to befriend though.

I do welcome

... Maybe it has to do with not having

as a priority?

@ FDG: yes, I'm INFJ. Definitely not INFP...

**FDG** · 03-08-2006, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Arcanum

I mean ESTJ, ENTP. ESTP is my conflictor. ENTJ I haven't gotten a chance to befriend though.

I do welcome

... Maybe it has to do with not having

as a priority?

@ FDG: yes, I'm INFJ. Definitely not INFP...

How is it possible that you welcome

, but that you feel stupid when people use it?

I still think that you should reconsider you type. I'm acting as a supervisor now :wink:

**Arcanum** · 03-08-2006, 02:25 PM

How is it possible that you welcome , but that you feel stupid when people use it?

I still think that you should reconsider you type. I'm acting as a supervisor now

FDG... I never said that I feel stupid when people use

. I don't know where you got that. I feel stupid having to explain the things that get to me.

Supervisor??? hahahaha... no way.

**CuriousSoul** · 03-08-2006, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Arcanum

I mean ESTJ, ENTP. ESTP is my conflictor. ENTJ I haven't gotten a chance to befriend though.

I do welcome

... Maybe it has to do with not having

as a priority?

@ FDG: yes, I'm INFJ. Definitely not INFP...

Yes, it is very much possible not to get on with your duals or semiduals. If you are just acquitances or colleagues

Te can appear deceptively similar to

Se and this can cause problems - and even more so if the Te dominant person is in a supervisory position over you. Furthermore the intertype relations do not really come into play until you are quite close and have established more informal relations, and even then they are just one of many aspects that influence human relations.

**Smilingeyes** · 03-08-2006, 02:33 PM

Oh dear. I made the wrong conclusions first. An INFj... That changes the situation...

Yes, I've seen this before and I've caused it and it's hurt me as much as the other person. It's the pain of trying to change to fit your dual.

Thing is, IJs have a sort of mental shield around them that helps them not care about most of the things that happen around them. ENTjs, ESTjs and intuitive type ENTps are special in their ability to get past this "shield" and change your inner state from the outside. It's the amount of force these types use in their personal contact with others that creates this situation.

It's damn scary, but it's not a bad thing. It's something that needs to be accepted, you just need to go along for the ride. Damn, I'm actually envying your experience.

The Rational types lead a very controlled existence. But some things are worth breaking it for.

**Arcanum** · 03-08-2006, 02:33 PM

@curioussoul:
The problem is that I do get along very well with my dual. Its that there are times that I just don't understand the things they do, and I know that they are oblivious to how it can affect. Has this happened to you?

**Expat** · 03-08-2006, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by CuriousSoul

Te can appear deceptively similar to

Se and this can cause problems -.

That is a very good point; I had already noticed the problems of

being mistaken for

but of course it can happen both ways.

**Arcanum** · 03-08-2006, 02:40 PM

Smilingeyes wrote:

Oh dear. I made the wrong conclusions first. An INFj... That changes the situation...

Yes, I've seen this before and I've caused it and it's hurt me as much as the other person. It's the pain of trying to change to fit your dual.

Thing is, IJs have a sort of mental shield around them that helps them not care about most of the things that happen around them. ENTjs, ESTjs and intuitive type ENTps are special in their ability to get past this "shield" and change your inner state from the outside. It's the amount of force these types use in their personal contact with others that creates this situation.

It's damn scary, but it's not a bad thing. It's something that needs to be accepted, you just need to go along for the ride. Damn, I'm actually envying your experience.

The Rational types lead a very controlled existence. But some things are worth breaking it for.

This is exactly what happens... I didn't know if you/they could realize this fact. Did you figure this out by yourself? Getting past my "shield" is what makes me be attracted to those types in the first place.

**Arcanum** · 03-08-2006, 02:42 PM

Expat wrote:

That is a very good point; I had already noticed the problems of

being mistaken for

but of course it can happen both ways.

I don't think I mistake them both. One makes me feel comfortable while the other inmediately uncomfortable (

).

**Smilingeyes** · 03-08-2006, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Arcanum

... exactly what happens... I didn't know if you/they could realize this fact. Did you figure this out by yourself? Getting past my "shield" is what makes me be attracted to those types in the first place.

Well, we have no idea what it really feels like you are going through, but it's certainly a sight to behold. I mean, if I had to choose between having sex with a woman I love and just being with her when she goes through one of these experiences I'd choose the latter EVERY ... DAMN ... TIME.

Only very few Te-types really understand what's happening in these situations but most can feel it on some level, but only if they happen to care about you. And yes, I figured it out myself.

**Arcanum** · 03-08-2006, 02:56 PM

Smilingeyes wrote:

Well, we have no idea what it really feels like you are going through, but it's certainly a sight to behold. I mean, if I had to choose between having sex with a woman I love and just being with her when she goes through one of these experiences I'd choose the latter EVERY ... DAMN ... TIME.

hahaha... it's ironic that something that I really hate happening to me is something that other people would like.

Only very few Te-types really understand what's happening in these situations but most can feel it on some level, but only if they happen to care about you. And yes, I figured it out myself.

You might be right. You have given me hope in the last line, hehe.

Is there something that causes you pain when being with IFs?

**Smilingeyes** · 03-08-2006, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Arcanum

hahaha... it's ironic that something that I really hate happening to me is something that other people would like.

It's not the feeling that hurts, it's trying to control it. You need to find someone you trust so much that you let yourself go, just experience the ride, come hell or high water. You see struggling with the feeling is like physically parting from it. That's the situation in which the Te feels the pain as well.

You might be right. You have given me hope in the last line, hehe.

Good luck. You're going to need it.

**Arcanum** · 03-08-2006, 03:20 PM

Smilingeyes wrote:

It's not the feeling that hurts, it's trying to control it. You need to find someone you trust so much that you let yourself go, just experience the ride, come hell or high water. You see struggling with the feeling is like physically parting from it. That's the situation in which the Te feels the pain as well.

You are right... controlling it is what is hard, though I really try long and hard to. Yes, it turns into something very physical for me. The thing about letting go is the uncertainty. Even my close family knows almost 10% about what goes on in my head, since I want to appear as if I have no pain at all.

Are you reading my mind??

**Smilingeyes** · 03-08-2006, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Arcanum

You are right... controlling it is what is hard, though I really try long and hard to. Yes, it turns into something very physical for me. The thing about letting go is the uncertainty. Even my close family knows almost 10% about what goes on in my head, since I want to appear as if I have no pain at all.

Are you reading my mind??

Yes.

**Arcanum** · 03-08-2006, 03:22 PM

lol

**Smilingeyes** · 03-08-2006, 03:24 PM

This brings back memories.
It's good to be alive.

Creepy-Diana · 03-08-2006, 03:53 PM

.

**Arcanum** · 03-08-2006, 06:24 PM

Smilingeyes wrote:

This brings back memories.
It's good to be alive.

Were you depressed before?

**Smilingeyes** · 03-08-2006, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Arcanum

Smilingeyes wrote:

This brings back memories.
It's good to be alive.

Were you depressed before?

Thank you for the sentiment. I only meant that sometimes one feels even more vital than generally. Even the air smells sweeter.

**Arcanum** · 03-08-2006, 06:30 PM

I see, it was an automatic response to what you wrote.

**Smilingeyes** · 03-08-2006, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Arcanum

I see, it was an automatic response to what you wrote.

I know. I just tend to send thoughts with less accuracy than I receive them :wink:

**Arcanum** · 03-08-2006, 06:42 PM

Smilingeyes wrote:

I know. I just tend to send thoughts with less accuracy than I receive them

This sounds deep. I'll need some time to understand what you mean.

**Dioklecian** · 03-08-2006, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Arcanum

Smilingeyes wrote:

I know. I just tend to send thoughts with less accuracy than I receive them

This sounds deep. I'll need some time to understand what you mean.

Ni as a second function gives you thoughts as if coming from the universe, the one. Its' a picture and needs to translated into words. Words are imperfect, the picture is complete in itself.

As they say: You don't fuck around with eternity!

**CuriousSoul** · 03-08-2006, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by Arcanum

The problem is that I do get along very well with my dual. Its that there are times that I just don't understand the things they do, and I know that they are oblivious to how it can affect. Has this happened to you?

It has. I cannot give much useful advice, but I realized I have often ignored posts addressed to me when I could not give insightful answers. I think it has been written about duality, by Smilingeyes and others, that it works so well partly exactly because you do not truly understand each other, just enjoy the way you are different and find it easy to support each other.

**Arcanum** · 03-09-2006, 02:03 AM

Dioklecian wrote:

Ni as a second function gives you thoughts as if coming from the universe, the one. Its' a picture and needs to translated into words. Words are imperfect, the picture is complete in itself.

As they say: You don't fuck around with eternity!

... Are you referring to INFJs? I don't have

as second function.

CuriousSoul wrote:

It has. I cannot give much useful advice, but I realized I have often ignored posts addressed to me when I could not give insightful answers. I think it has been written about duality, by Smilingeyes and others, that it works so well partly exactly because you do not truly understand each other, just enjoy the way you are different and find it easy to support each other.

I don't know how I could support someone with

as a main function...

Fever wrote:

are u talking about Fi types showing ? could u elaborate or give an example?

I don't think that in this is case it is

. There is a difference in my opinion. It is comparing felt emotion (

) to 'artifical' emotion (

). Well, this is what I think.

Fever wrote:

Smilingeyes wrote:
ENTjs, ESTjs and intuitive type ENTps are special in their ability to get past this "shield" and change your inner state from the outside. It's the amount of force these types use in their personal contact with others that creates this situation.

It's damn scary, but it's not a bad thing. It's something that needs to be accepted, you just need to go along for the ride. Damn, I'm actually envying your experience.

The Rational types lead a very controlled existence. But some things are worth breaking it for.

what do u envy about this experience?

I think I might know what he is referring to. If I am wrong, you guys should correct me. What I think happens is that everything that

types do and feel has to make sense, and they are able to control this aspect very well.

types on the other hand, really want to make sense but they find it hard to control the sometimes overwhelming amount of

, which makes them have complex/complicated personalities. What might cause 'envy' in

types is that it is hard for them to actually produce feelings from external occurrences, unlike

s. They would like to feel that they are experiencing life, in terms of having having episodes in their life that were caused by irrational passions and emotions. Is this what you were referring to Smilingeyes?

**Smilingeyes** · 03-09-2006, 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by Arcanum

Dioklecian wrote:

Ni as a second function gives you thoughts as if coming from the universe, the one. Its' a picture and needs to translated into words. Words are imperfect, the picture is complete in itself.

As they say: You don't fuck around with eternity!

... Are you referring to INFJs? I don't have

as second function.?

I have

as second function. And though he's being a bit lyrical in describing it, that's sort of what it feels like.

I don't know how I could support someone with

as a main function...

It's not something you do actively, it's passive, automatic. You can't help doing it.

Originally Posted by Arcanum

Fever wrote:

are u talking about Fi types showing ? could u elaborate or give an example?

I don't think that in this is case it is

. There is a difference in my opinion. It is comparing felt emotion (

) to 'artifical' emotion (

). Well, this is what I think.

Close enough for me to agree on.

Originally Posted by Arcanum

Fever wrote:

Smilingeyes wrote:
ENTjs, ... for.

what do u envy about this experience?

I think I might know what he is referring to. If I am wrong, you guys should correct me. What I think happens is that everything that

types do and feel has to make sense, and they are able to control this aspect very well.

types on the other hand, really want to make sense but they find it hard to control the sometimes overwhelming amount of

, which makes them have complex/complicated personalities. What might cause 'envy' in

types is that it is hard for them to actually produce feelings from external occurrences, unlike

s. They would like to feel that they are experiencing life, in terms of having having episodes in their life that were caused by irrational passions and emotions. Is this what you were referring to Smilingeyes?

There's a lot of good sense in what you said but that's not what I referred to. I meant the experience of finding your dual for the first time - type-related in specifics but not in the general sense that I had in mind.

**Arcanum** · 03-09-2006, 02:56 PM

Smilingeyes wrote:

There's a lot of good sense in what you said but that's not what I referred to. I meant the experience of finding your dual for the first time - type-related in specifics but not in the general sense that I had in mind.

hahahaha... I see. Sometimes I take things into the "grand scheme," rather than just find a simple explanation.

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