Stages of Duality

[FDG]

This is why I suck at chess. It just feels like this giant web of over-complicated rules and irrelevancies that I really can't be bothered to sort through. I much prefer Go: it's more straightforward, and is won not by making every move perfectly, but rather by establishing solidity and outmaneuvering your opponent.

Same.

[ClaudiaM]

bump

Reading about duality has me wondering, do they all evolve in the same or even parallel ways?

[Hitta]

This is obviously incorrect because it doesn't mention bondage being followed up by anal rape.

[Hitta]

You do that to your duals?

It is the natural order of things. You can notice Augustinavičiūtė hinting at it in her writings.

[Reuben]

@starfall

I realized that my current financial situation only can afford a rear entry Just how much savings do I make btw if I consider that option? Oh, and do you have guestlists for free VIP entry?

^^

[Leader]

...Anymore ways you guys identify duals? Really need people to go indepth with this.

[Reuben]

Duals can be easily identified by how they make you feel.

1) Comfort
2) Intrigue
3) Excitement
4) Interest
5) Arousal (if potential sexual partner)
6) Growth
7) Integration

No other intertype relation can produce these feelings on a constant basis, with the potential for excremental increase of each of these at an amount defined by the other compatibility issues of the two dual parts, namely:

1) Upbringing
2) Motivation
3) Goals
4) Interests
5) Social group
6) Obligations (i.e. job, bills, family)
7) Financial status

[Wavebury]

Those 8 stages read a bit like a utopic stance on duality. To sum up:

1. Feels nice

2. Feels good

3. Feels great

4. Feels great

5. Feels great

6. Feels great

7. Feels great

8. Feels great

Where is the description of tensions between duals and potential pitfalls and regressions that can happen in duality relations? Why must this description be so simplistic etc?

[Suz]

Those 8 stages read a bit like a utopic stance on duality. To sum up:

1. Feels nice

2. Feels good

3. Feels great

4. Feels great

5. Feels great

6. Feels great

7. Feels great

8. Feels great

Where is the description of tensions between duals and potential pitfalls and regressions that can happen in duality relations? Why must this description be so simplistic etc?

good point. I was actually thinking about this recently as well.

Maybe the "stages" refer to advancement of the dual relationship, so it doesn't include the in-between stages of tension... But i agree with you, sounds too idealized and peachy, when most of the time it's not. In fact, I suspect some of the stages dont happen until some tension has developed and has been overcome.

[Reuben]

@wawa and Typhon

basically when you look at my arbitrary 7 indicators of duality, it can be seen as some sort of progression. Usually the first 3 occurs within the first few seconds 1) comfort 2) intrigue 3) excitement.

After which whether or not to pursue the relationship (like say hi, or whatever) is dependent on a lot of things:

1) Upbringing
2) Motivation
3) Goals
4) Interests
5) Social group
6) Obligations (i.e. job, bills, family)
7) Financial status

which generally affect your confidence to start a conversation etc.

A lot of dualities fail here because no one made the first move. So give a little pet on your back if you made it this far. Afterwords, interest will build, while the first 3 indicators are gradually strengthened assuming of course, that social interactions (which are dependent on the above 7 arbitrary indicators as quoted) go smoothly. To move on to the 5th step, both duals must be sexually attracted to each other, which once again is dependent on the above quoted indicators such as obligations (married? orientation? goals?). Most likely, assuming the standard 1 male 1 female dual relations, there will be sexual attraction regardless (as is normal between any male and female, sorry uwace and BnD ) , but the strengthening of it will depend on the said indicators. Chances are, in any case, step 6 and 7 will occur either way, although with sexual arousal satisfied and put on expectant mode (looking for more ^^) step 6 and 7 will also strengthen. This is especially the case with a long-term serious relationship such as marriage.

Duality takes out the serious in marriage, hence prolonging it, to say, eternity



Of course, lots of bull occur along the way. Most of it is due to over-analysis and miscommunication, which as already said, is dependent on the 7 quoted indicators above.

[Joy]

I think there's a stage of duality that isn't touched on in that article. It's one that's tense and unpleasant. Basically, once you get used to this idea that your ego block is being rewarded and your super ego block is being suppressed you're relieved and comfortable at first, but then all at once you're like "oh shit! what's happening to me?" and you struggle a little bit to hang on to the old you. As you use your role more they're like, "ew, what's this crap?" and try to suppress it, which only makes the power struggle worse. Meanwhile, they're doing the same thing to you. After having gotten used to what seemed like unconditional acceptance from this person this change can be a bit disconcerting. The way to fix it is to just hang in there and to direct your focus back to the things about them you appreciate and your ego block. This stage will pass, though it does occasionally reappear briefly from time to time.

[ConcreteButterfly]

I think there's a stage of duality that isn't touched on in that article. It's one that's tense and unpleasant. Basically, once you get used to this idea that your ego block is being rewarded and your super ego block is being suppressed you're relieved and comfortable at first, but then all at once you're like "oh shit! what's happening to me?" and you struggle a little bit to hang on to the old you. As you use your role more they're like, "ew, what's this crap?" and try to suppress it, which only makes the power struggle worse. Meanwhile, they're doing the same thing to you. After having gotten used to what seemed like unconditional acceptance from this person this change can be a bit disconcerting. The way to fix it is to just hang in there and to direct your focus back to the things about them you appreciate and your ego block. This stage will pass, though it does occasionally reappear briefly from time to time.

Hm I think your referring to the superego taking hints from the duals Id block. Your see your dual using your role function in a way that supports your suggestive (their base), so you start using it in the same way. But your role is weak and they will automatically resist it when it negatively affects their base. But this affects you too as your suggestive and you mimic their example again, etc. gradually you get better at your role and their unconscious resistence weakens, it actually becomes impossible for them to oppose your role when it is supporting their base.

[Aylen]

Hm I think your referring to the superego taking hints from the duals Id block. Your see your dual using your role function in a way that supports your suggestive (their base), so you start using it in the same way. But your role is weak and they will automatically resist it when it negatively affects their base. But this affects you too as your suggestive and you mimic their example again, etc. gradually you get better at your role and their unconscious resistence weakens, it actually becomes impossible for them to oppose your role when it is supporting their base.

I am not completely sure of what you are saying but I wonder if this has a little bit to do with what happened between my friend and me earlier. Regardless you sparked me to read up on Si and Se.

It's not like I have ever been eaten by a coyote (in this lifetime anyway) but I had no problem imagining then internalizing and experiencing the horror of it when it was suggested to walk at night down by the lake and trees. Sent me into a panic that no amount of Se could break through... Not to mention allergies or whatever...

For the record everyone who went for a walk came back in one piece. No coyote attack but I was not going to take any chances, plus I got allergies today.

Introverted sensing () is an irrational, introverted, and dynamic information element. It is also referred to as Si, S, experiential sensing, or white sensing.
Si is associated with the ability to internalize sensations and to experience them in full detail.
Si focuses on tangible, direct (external) connections (introverted) between processes (dynamic) happening in one time, i.e. the physical, sensual experience of interactions between objects. This leads to an awareness of internal tangible physical states and how various physical fluctuations or substances are directly transferred between objects, such as motion, temperature, or dirtiness. The awareness of these tangible physical processes consequently leads to an awareness of health, or an optimum balance with one's environment. The individual physical reaction to concrete surroundings is main way we perceive and define aesthetics, comfort, convenience, and pleasure.
In contrast to extroverted sensing Se, Si is related to following one's own needs instead of focusing on some externally-driven conception of what is necessary to acquire or achieve. So, whereas Se ego types feel capable to evaluate how justified others' preferences are, Si ego types will try to adjust to them in any way possible (given that it does not extremely affect their own comfort), wishing to minimize conflict.
In contrast to introverted intuition Ni, Si is about direct interaction and unity (or discord) with one's surroundings, rather than abstract process and causal links.
Types that value Si prefer to spend their time doing enjoyable activities rather than straining themselves to achieve goals. They like to believe that if activities are done with enjoyment, people will give them more effort and time, and also becoming more skilled at what they are doing in the long run. They believe that goals should suit people's intrinsic needs rather than shaped by the demands and constraints of the external world, and so do not try to force others into doing things they don't want to do. They also try to be easygoing and pleasant, preferring peaceful coexistence to conflict, except when their personal well-being or comfort is directly at stake.

as a role (3rd) function (IEI and ILI)

The individual dislikes it when others emphasize the need for relaxation, enjoyment, and activities that are supposed to bring these about, because what they need internally is just the opposite — a need for action and resolve. Rather than spend their time trying to "listen to what their body is telling them," they need to have clear external demands that are able to overcome their sense of uncertainty and hesitation.



as an ignoring (7th) function (SLE and SEE)

The individual is perfectly adept at evaluating his physical state and the quality of his sensations, but gives priority to the external act of experiencing and interacting with the world. He gets impatient with those who stubbornly focus on harmony and equilibrium when there are things to be done in the outside world. According to these types, the exploration of the sensations is something that should be done in private on one's own time, but in public people should be ready to interact, get involved, and command situations without having to weigh out everything first.

[ConcreteButterfly]

I am not completely sure of what you are saying but I wonder if this has a little bit to do with what happened between my friend and me earlier. Regardless you sparked me to read up on Si and Se.

It's not like I have ever been eaten by a coyote (in this lifetime anyway) but I had no problem imagining then internalizing and experiencing the horror of it when it was suggested to walk at night down by the lake and trees. Sent me into a panic that no amount of Se could break through... Not to mention allergies or whatever...

For the record everyone who went for a walk came back in one piece. No coyote attack but I was not going to take any chances, plus I got allergies today.

Im assuming your an inxp? And your dual is esxp

So yeah, that's what I am saying. Your duals ne role function suggested an idea that triggered a cascade of unpleasant sensations (si). You tried to alleviate it using se but the internal sensations were overwhelming and your ni inner harmony was disturbed. Next time you'd see it coming and Change mental trajectories before your dual's idea could fully form. Your dual would gradually mimic your example and only form ideas which maintained their inner harmony (and yours with it). and as they got better at it your resistance to their ideas would weaken.

[Aylen]

Im assuming your an inxp? And your dual is esxp

So yeah, that's what I am saying. Your duals ne role function suggested an idea that triggered a cascade of unpleasant sensations (si). You tried to alleviate it using se but the internal sensations were overwhelming and your ni inner harmony was disturbed. Next time you'd see it coming and Change mental trajectories before your dual's idea could fully form. Your dual would gradually mimic your example and only form ideas which maintained their inner harmony (and yours with it). and as they got better at it your resistance to their ideas would weaken.

Thanks for explaining the role/base thing to me. I think I understand the whole incident better now.

[golden]

Stages 1 and 2 at the very least sound like how lots of my relationships with clear nonduals started out ... with an ILE, two EIEs, two LSEs, two IEIs, one SLE, and my close friends, of various types. Even with some people I never have gotten to know super deeply but whom I've had intense platonic transient relations / conversations with.

Some things that are sort of unique to duality ime: the calming effect mentioned, the feeling of being encased in a safe bubble with the other person. Finding most all of my statements have a place to land in the other person. Amazingly congruent sexual expression down to the smallest gestures. Not getting tired of the person's company. Not getting easily bored by the person, because of not being able to anticipate all they will do or say, but in a nonthreatening way.

Not feeling like I have to do certain things, be a certain way, to meet the person's expectations.

[Suz]

Augustinavičiūtė

so detailed...

[Beautiful sky]

If you're a healthy well balanced person you'll realize that in the first stage of duality you've never dated anyone like that person unless you've dated duals before. First stage is realizing that the other person is opposite in a complimentary way not in a conflict but that's really hard to see if what we often get stuck on is being loved or understood in some way instead of watching to see what the otherpperson's sphere of life and realization is.

[Beautiful sky]

First you both meet say hi and get a sense of whether you're physically attracted or not. Extravert reads the introvert who is kinda quiet and doesn't say much. At this point how do you know it's a conflict or duality. You don't. You have a general sense of the person's temperament. I look for "let's go eat this or on a drive here" both sle and lse do that. LSE will try to introduce you to his friends because acceptance...see how you interact. EII may look yo see how respectful you are in terms of keeping your hands to your self and not making a social scene with too much pda, judging each other's actions I guess. Social interaction may be second stage, maybe sex or some sort of reading about sexual compatibility may be another. I'm almost through with all of them

[shakealittle]

Some things that are sort of unique to duality ime: the calming effect mentioned, the feeling of being encased in a safe bubble with the other person. Finding most all of my statements have a place to land in the other person. Amazingly congruent sexual expression down to the smallest gestures. Not getting tired of the person's company. Not getting easily bored by the person, because of not being able to anticipate all they will do or say, but in a nonthreatening way.

Not feeling like I have to do certain things, be a certain way, to meet the person's expectations.

Just thought I'd share, I love what you've written about duality. That sums it up for me.

[Joy]

LSE will try to introduce you to his friends because acceptance...see how you interact.

Is this a thing?

[Iris]

Finding most all of my statements have a place to land in the other person.

[Beautiful sky]

...what about the stage where someone who happens to be your dual texts you out of the blue after not communicating for some time, you text him back, he doesn't respond, and then later you find out from your friend that he went to a literal orgy for new year's??!

#areeveryonesdualsthisweird

What is a literal orgy?

[Olly From Wally World]

literally went to an orgy*

Haha, what you edited out was funny.

[darya]

literally went to an orgy*

knowing this person's friend circle, i awkwardly imagine it being a bunch of N's with their clothes off cryptically theorizing at each other in order to communally get off

Haha, I've heard that some of my friends also had a private orgy between them. All N's, mainly IEE's and ILE's. They supposedly read Kant aloud and smoke cigars after the deed When even an orgy is super pretentious.

[aixelsyd]

...what about the stage where someone who happens to be your dual texts you out of the blue after not communicating for some time, you text him back, he doesn't respond, and then later you find out from your friend that he went to a literal orgy for new year's??!

#areeveryonesdualsthisweird

Your dual is ILE. Nothing to look at here.


I haven't really noticed stages of duality. Every relationship with my dual starts out differently. Some ILIs I instantly disliked and later grew to love (in a platonic way). Others I never grew to like because they just had this way of going about that rubbed me the wrong way. Others I instantly connected with and we became great pals straight away. It really depends on the person. Just because they are all ILIs doesn't mean they're clones of each other. They're really all too different even if they are the same type in terms of socionics. The only trend is that having them around puts me more at ease. I'm used to having at least one ILI around at work or in my social circle and I feel something is missing without one. But I've had it where we started great and grew apart and where it took time to appreciate each other. It's too variable.

[FoxOnStilts]

If you're a healthy well balanced person you'll realize that in the first stage of duality you've never dated anyone like that person unless you've dated duals before. First stage is realizing that the other person is opposite in a complimentary way not in a conflict but that's really hard to see if what we often get stuck on is being loved or understood in some way instead of watching to see what the otherpperson's sphere of life and realization is.

I think this might be the first time in all the years of being a member here that I've agreed with something you've said.

[Alomoes]

I'm very curious about this... does anyone have any insight or experience w duality who could describe the "stages" duals go through, or know of any resources where it's written about in English?

Yes. I could. There is the stage where you go figure it out yourself. This is where you are at. Except you won't.

[Beautiful sky]

Duality is the e cake under the frosting. If you're going to get someone who makes excuses to get rid of you and who doesn't want something good then that person probably doesn't deserve it. So move on and let them have something bad. Why not. Maybe one day they'll get it. But by thwn it will be too late and thwy would have caused much pain.

[Eliza Thomason]

Well I must admit we ripped through these stages pretty fast. We'd been friends by email a long time, and there was a great comfort and trust in that friendship, but I had long vetoed out this friendship as a romantic possibility (I was a single MOm, did not plan to date til my son was married, and I just put all dating thought out of my mind, on purpose). Overtime things changed in my life yet still I never considered he was anything but great email friend. Then I met him, and within the hour fell hard and fast in love, and really, I parts of ALL of these stages were there when I fell for him. I saw/felt them, or at least the seeds of promise of EACH of those stages, and I was confident that this woudl be how our relationship would be. And it was/is.

And I am happy in my Dual relationship, but it does not negate the good things about other relations. If I had happened to fall for another type, then that could be good/wonderful, just in a completely different way. But yes, the above explanation is a good write up on how one experiences Duality.

[SongOfSapphire]

Oh hey, I started this thread

IME, the stages do play out close to the way they're outlined here, though it can happen quickly if both ppl are emotionally mature (or maybe I am flattering myself) and looking for the same thing, or close enough to it. It feels very fluid and natural, not forced (and trying to force it might even ruin the whole thing by interrupting the natural flow of things, imo).

[HotSauce]

I can write about my current experience with an ILI guy. We have been dating about six months.

At first? I thought he was nerdy, quiet, kind of weird, but at the same time oddly fascinating. He had well thought-out, perfectly worded statements for any question I asked. But what I REALLY liked was his direct, no-nonsense communication style. Absolutely nothing ruffles his feathers. It's like he knows what's going to happen, he knows what's important and what is not, so he never panics about anything.

That first month, I almost wrote him off completely because I thought he didn't have a sense of humor. I was still dating other people. He didn't let me go too far away from him though. He would just randomly text me one day and and say "Your favorite band is at the house of blues Saturday night. I got tickets. Dinner afterwards?" and I'd be right back all over him. HOW THE HELL CAN I SAY NO TO THAT. A bit more time went by and I discovered that he has a dry, raunchy sense of humor that probably offends most people. Which is LOVELY in my book! He was just holding back.

So now, I'm glad that I have a guy he doesn't find my airhead moments annoying, he allows me to totally me ME, and is not bothered by my constant question asking and mood changes. We improve each other in different ways and just having him there completely relaxes me. It feels weird when I have to leave him to go live my life, but every time we get back together it's like a brand new relationship, and it gets better each time.

[Olimpia]

Stages 1 and 2 at the very least sound like how lots of my relationships with clear nonduals started out ... with an ILE, two EIEs, two LSEs, two IEIs, one SLE, and my close friends, of various types. Even with some people I never have gotten to know super deeply but whom I've had intense platonic transient relations / conversations with.

Thanks for pointing this out. For a moment thought I was the only one who noticed that you can experience those Stages with Non-Duals. (Myself and others I know certainly have.)

Stage 1 and 2 are mostly related to someone's Imago. Depending on yours, a non-Dual type can be your Imago (which I find is actually the most common). So in other words, with someone who meets your unconscious ideals for a partner (which are primarily based on your childhood experiences and partly your repressed or unacknowledged parts of your psyche), you will experience a feeling of somehow knowing this person from another time (technically your past, ha) etc. So, to get the full Duality experience according to the article, you'd have to meet a Dual who is also your Imago. Otherwise, it won't really work like that.

[Olimpia]

Also, how does no one question the claim that 30-45 % of married couples are supposedly Duals?

Here's a study where they supposedly "randomly" selected 119 married couples, and of course Duality was the most common relation (supposedly 54 Dual couples). Most people were supposedly married to someone within their own Quadra (supposedly 76 couples).

I don't know about you, but based on my observations and typings of several couples (both married and unmarried), I've found that the majority of unmarried couples are not in the same Quadra, and the majority of married couples are not Duals (but many are actually in the same Quadra).

In other words, most Alphas are with a Beta or a Delta, most Betas are with an Alpha or a Gamma, most Gamma NTs are with a Beta or a Delta, and most Delta STs are with an Alpha or a Gamma. The exception to this "rule" seem to be Gamma SFs and Delta NFs who actually do often marry someone who is of the same Quadra; mostly an Identical, a Mirror partner, or an Activity partner, however. EII-LSE duality is especially rare; I'd say it is the rarest Duality pairing besides LII-ESE.

If someone asked me what the most common relation for marriage was, I'd say this is not easy to answer. (Haha). Seriously though, my answer would be: Opposite Quadra marriages are the most rare, especially Conflict. The adjacent Quadra marriages seem slightly more common than or around equally as common as same Quadra ones. The most common adjacent-quadra marriages seem to be Mirage, Semi-Duality, Benefit, and Supervision. Inside the same Quadra, Duality is the least common; Identity seems to be the most common for same-Quadra introverts, and Mirror the most common for same-Quadra extroverts. Overall, especially without a legit study, it is difficult to tell which one relation is the most common; but as far as I know, it is certainly not Duality.

Having said all that, I think we'd need to primarily look at happy couples who've been together for more than 10 years. People who've been married for less time than that and/or who are unhappy or ambivalent or neutral in their relationship should be ignored. Following that, I'd say the happiest couples are Duals, for sure. However, if you'd look at the biggest chunk of happy couples who've been married for the longest time, I think Semi-Duality and Mirage would take the cake (followed by Activity and Identity, perhaps). I've written about the likely reasons why Duality is not as common as it should be here. Duality has the greatest potential for the greatest happiness, but there are a lot of roadblocks in the way. All those roadblocks make Duality less common. And that's why "studies" claiming most married couples to be Duals can't be taken seriously by me.

[Saoirse]

...

In other words, most Alphas are with a Beta or a Delta, most Betas are with an Alpha or a Gamma, most Gamma NTs are with a Beta or a Delta, and most Delta STs are with an Alpha or a Gamma. The exception to this "rule" seem to be Gamma SFs and Delta NFs who actually do often marry someone who is of the same Quadra; mostly an Identical, a Mirror partner, or an Activity partner, however. EII-LSE duality is especially rare; I'd say it is the rarest Duality pairing besides LII-ESE.

If someone asked me what the most common relation for marriage was, I'd say this is not easy to answer. (Haha). Seriously though, my answer would be: Opposite Quadra marriages are the most rare, especially Conflict. The adjacent Quadra marriages seem slightly more common than or around equally as common as same Quadra ones. The most common adjacent-quadra marriages seem to be Mirage, Semi-Duality, Benefit, and Supervision. Inside the same Quadra, Duality is the least common; Identity seems to be the most common for same-Quadra introverts, and Mirror the most common for same-Quadra extroverts. Overall, especially without a legit study, it is difficult to tell which one relation is the most common; but as far as I know, it is certainly not Duality.

... However, if you'd look at the biggest chunk of happy couples who've been married for the longest time, I think Semi-Duality and Mirage would take the cake (followed by Activity and Identity, perhaps). ...

I agree reports of duality have been exaggerated. Generally socionists have confirmation bias and try to force things to be about duality even when they're not. I also think while duals have great potential for comfort and mutual growth, they additionally have the highest potential for hurting each other.

Do you have any thoughts on why EII-LSE duality is the rarest?

[Adam Strange]

I agree reports of duality have been exaggerated. Generally socionists have confirmation bias and try to force things to be about duality even when they're not. I also think while duals have great potential for comfort and mutual growth, they additionally have the highest potential for hurting each other.

Do you have any thoughts on why EII-LSE duality is the rarest?

Because EII's are sensitive helpers and LSE's can be insensitive, self-absorbed blockheads*. Especially when young. And I say this as a person with an LSE mother, sister, fellow worker, and best friend. You have to get past the insensitive blockhead to see the person, though.

Duals are already far apart in terms of where they can be found in social circles. If you are not looking for a dual, you would never get close enough to one to see that they can be complementary.


*Edit:
Equal time must be given to my description of LIE's, who can be insensitive, self-absorbed assholes.

[Olimpia]

I agree reports of duality have been exaggerated. Generally socionists have confirmation bias and try to force things to be about duality even when they're not. I also think while duals have great potential for comfort and mutual growth, they additionally have the highest potential for hurting each other.

Do you have any thoughts on why EII-LSE duality is the rarest?

@Adam Strange has basically answered your question there quite accurately already.

In other words, most EIIs tend to be turned-off by someone who seems to possess a lack of Fi sensitivity. LSE-Si can also look like an SLE from afar, so that would not be too appealing to an EII either.

EIIs tend to gravitate the most towards fellow Fi ego types and some Fi HA types. I've noticed that Activity partners meet each other much more often than Duals. The HA's of the types make them meet each other more often; people delve into their HA much more often than their DS (or PoLR for that matter). For example, it is rare to see an Fi lead delve into Te related subjects, pastimes, or similar. This principle applies to all the types. It is rather rare for someone to delve into things related to their DS; if they happen to, they are usually Contact subtype (and hence have boosted DS) or they happen to be close to someone who has their DS in their Ego; so that person introduces them to DS-related things regularly and the person is more used to it. For instance, an EII has a much higher chance of getting into "Te stuff" and meeting their Dual if they happened to have grown up with a Te ego type; assuming their relationship to that person was good enough. Also, an EII-Fi is much more likely going to end up with an LIE than an LSE. Again, could just be a matter of more likely meeting an LIE, for they happen to also be an Intuitive, and that can result in them crossing paths more likely.

The main issue with Duality is the fact that people rarely meet their Duals. I'd argue that meeting one's Dual is almost as unlikely as meeting one's Conflictor. In the latter case, it is a blessing, but in the former it can be a bit of a curse. Both the Dual and Conflictor reside in totally different worlds. In the case of EII, the Dual and Conflictor reside in the world of Se+Te (ST), which is the opposite to the Ni-Fi (NF) world the EII lives in.

I think that LII-ESE duality is actually more rare than EII-LSE duality (but both are very close in their rarity). With LII-ESE, it is a matter of LIIs being mostly turned-off by people who seem to be logically and intellectually (too) inferior to them. And then it is again the issue of simply not meeting each other.

[Adam Strange]

@Adam Strange has basically answered your question there quite accurately already.

In other words, most EIIs tend to be turned-off by someone who seems to possess a lack of Fi sensitivity. LSE-Si can also look like an SLE from afar, so that would not be too appealing to an EII either.

EIIs tend to gravitate the most towards fellow Fi ego types and some Fi HA types. I've noticed that Activity partners meet each other much more often than Duals. The HA's of the types make them meet each other more often; people delve into their HA much more often than their DS (or PoLR for that matter). For example, it is rare to see an Fi lead delve into Te related subjects, pastimes, or similar. This principle applies to all the types. It is rather rare for someone to delve into things related to their DS; if they happen to, they are usually Contact subtype (and hence have boosted DS) or they happen to be close to someone who has their DS in their Ego; so that person introduces them to DS-related things regularly and the person is more used to it. For instance, an EII has a much higher chance of getting into "Te stuff" and meeting their Dual if they happened to have grown up with a Te ego type; assuming their relationship to that person was good enough. Also, an EII-Fi is much more likely going to end up with an LIE than an LSE. Again, could just be a matter of more likely meeting an LIE, for they happen to also be an Intuitive, and that can result in them crossing paths more likely.

The main issue with Duality is the fact that people rarely meet their Duals. I'd argue that meeting one's Dual is almost as unlikely as meeting one's Conflictor. In the latter case, it is a blessing, but in the former it can be a bit of a curse. Both the Dual and Conflictor reside in totally different worlds. In the case of EII, the Dual and Conflictor reside in the world of Se+Te (ST), which is the opposite to the Ni-Fi (NF) world the EII lives in.

I think that LII-ESE duality is actually more rare than EII-LSE duality (but both are very close in their rarity). With LII-ESE, it is a matter of LIIs being mostly turned-off by people who seem to be logically and intellectually (too) inferior to them. And then it is again the issue of simply not meeting each other.

@Cassandra, your assertions match my experiences.

I was talking to an IEE yesterday about socionics and its usefulness in finding suitable partners. She said she had a 20-yo daughter, and I asked if she had a picture of her because I might be able to identify her type and then the IEE (her mother) could anticipate what kind of guy she might like. The IEE showed me a pic and her daughter VI'd EII, and standing next to her in the pic was an ESI. I asked the IEE if they were friends, and she replied Yes, since about Day 2 of fourth grade and they have been inseparable since then.

The blonde ESI-Se Artist that I know introduced me to her best friend, an EII with dark hair. Her father is SEE and her mother is IEI, so she has had zero exposure to Te-doms, other than me.

An ESI-Fi that I bought lunch from had an IEE father and was besties with her IEI boss until they had a falling out, and her best friend was a gay SLE, although he liked other girls better.

One of my best friends, an ILI (Fi-HA), is married to an ESI-Se.

I actually don't know of a single ESI-LIE partnership IRL, although I may have sat next to one at a concert last year. She was constantly sneezing, he looked uncomfortable.

I have been talking infrequently to another ESI-Se for two years. I suggested we go for a walk in the park so we could get to know each other's types, but she was a no-show (forgot). A year later, she suggested we go for burgers and a beer -but no sex- (where did that come from?) but didn't pick up when I called to suggest a time. Six months later I again suggested we go get burgers, she deflected but didn't say No, and stuck around to talk for an hour.
She's basically treating me like a high voltage line that has fallen in her yard. The sparking is attractive but could be fatal, so she's waiting for it to resolve itself one way or another.

[Olimpia]

@Cassandra, your assertions match my experiences.

I was talking to an IEE yesterday about socionics and its usefulness in finding suitable partners. She said she had a 20-yo daughter, and I asked if she had a picture of her because I might be able to identify her type and then the IEE (her mother) could anticipate what kind of guy she might like. The IEE showed me a pic and her daughter VI'd EII, and standing next to her in the pic was an ESI. I asked the IEE if they were friends, and she replied Yes, since about Day 2 of fourth grade and they have been inseparable since then.

The blonde ESI-Se Artist that I know introduced me to her best friend, an EII with dark hair. Her father is SEE and her mother is IEI, so she has had zero exposure to Te-doms, other than me.

An ESI-Fi that I bought lunch from had an IEE father and was besties with her IEI boss until they had a falling out, and her best friend was a gay SLE, although he liked other girls better.

One of my best friends, an ILI (Fi-HA), is married to an ESI-Se.

I actually don't know of a single ESI-LIE partnership IRL, although I may have sat next to one at a concert last year. She was constantly sneezing, he looked uncomfortable.

Yes, most ESIs also tend to be more attracted to people who are either Fi ego or HA, and/or Se ego. So basically: ExI, xEE, Beta ST, xLI.

Having said that, I've seen and known more cases of ESI-LIE duality than both EII-LSE and LII-ESE duality combined. So it is not that rare, but it is not that common either.

[Saoirse]

Because EII's are sensitive helpers and LSE's can be insensitive, self-absorbed blockheads*. Especially when young. And I say this as a person with an LSE mother, sister, fellow worker, and best friend. You have to get past the insensitive blockhead to see the person, though.

Duals are already far apart in terms of where they can be found in social circles. If you are not looking for a dual, you would never get close enough to one to see that they can be complementary.


*Edit:
Equal time must be given to my description of LIE's, who can be insensitive, self-absorbed assholes.

I don't see how that would make EII-LSE less likely than IEI-SLE though?

@Adam Strange has basically answered your question there quite accurately already.

In other words, most EIIs tend to be turned-off by someone who seems to possess a lack of Fi sensitivity. LSE-Si can also look like an SLE from afar, so that would not be too appealing to an EII either.

EIIs tend to gravitate the most towards fellow Fi ego types and some Fi HA types. I've noticed that Activity partners meet each other much more often than Duals. The HA's of the types make them meet each other more often; people delve into their HA much more often than their DS (or PoLR for that matter). For example, it is rare to see an Fi lead delve into Te related subjects, pastimes, or similar. This principle applies to all the types. It is rather rare for someone to delve into things related to their DS; if they happen to, they are usually Contact subtype (and hence have boosted DS) or they happen to be close to someone who has their DS in their Ego; so that person introduces them to DS-related things regularly and the person is more used to it. For instance, an EII has a much higher chance of getting into "Te stuff" and meeting their Dual if they happened to have grown up with a Te ego type; assuming their relationship to that person was good enough. Also, an EII-Fi is much more likely going to end up with an LIE than an LSE. Again, could just be a matter of more likely meeting an LIE, for they happen to also be an Intuitive, and that can result in them crossing paths more likely.

The main issue with Duality is the fact that people rarely meet their Duals. I'd argue that meeting one's Dual is almost as unlikely as meeting one's Conflictor. In the latter case, it is a blessing, but in the former it can be a bit of a curse. Both the Dual and Conflictor reside in totally different worlds. In the case of EII, the Dual and Conflictor reside in the world of Se+Te (ST), which is the opposite to the Ni-Fi (NF) world the EII lives in.

I think that LII-ESE duality is actually more rare than EII-LSE duality (but both are very close in their rarity). With LII-ESE, it is a matter of LIIs being mostly turned-off by people who seem to be logically and intellectually (too) inferior to them. And then it is again the issue of simply not meeting each other.

Cassandra, don't get my hopes up, my Imago is LIE. >w< My experience mostly corroborates your theory though. I grew up with an SLI mom, with whom I am very close, and I love Te egos, whereas most of my EII friends did not grow up with Te egos, and they prefer ethical types or Ne egos. My one EII friend who has an LSE mom does not have a great relationship with her and so does not like Te egos that much.