I thought this was worth bringing back.
Have to watch for bias, but other than that I think this could be some help especially to those who are new.
I edited in explanations.
Originally Posted by Rick
Respond negatively to, don't require. (I can do it myself.)- assistance understanding and formulating your interests and possibilities
Respond positively to unless the person's a doofus, don't require. (Requiring would make me seem needy, and they may not be helpful anyway.)- assistance making sense of your feelings towards people and things
Respond positively to, sometimes require.- assistance relaxing and switching off mental activity to experience enjoyment
Respond positively to, sometimes require. (Sounds like- assistance finding methods for solving technical problems that keep coming upto me. Technical problems are a neuissance.)
Respond negatively to, don't require. (I can do it myself.)- assistance overcoming doubts and taking decisive action
Respond positively to, don't require. (Come to think of it, I responded negatively when someone did this.)- assistance understanding the meaning of events in your life
Respond negatively to, don't require. (I can do it myself, usually with pencil and paper.)- assistance organizing and structuring your thoughts
Sometimes respond positively to, sometimes require.- assistance in outward expression of your internal state (i.e. self-expression)
Last edited by DirectorAbbie; 12-17-2009 at 05:30 PM.
Not required, i'd be confused if someone tried to help me do this. Doesn't everyone know what they're interested in?
Required, I have problems with my subjective feelings toward people. Usually not certain of them.- assistance making sense of your feelings towards people and things
Neutral, I'm not sure that I have a problem with this. I do find it irritating to be interrupted when I'm in "the zone" of focusing on something. When I get stressed, I'm usually able to distract myself or meditate myself out of extranuous mental activity- assistance relaxing and switching off mental activity to experience enjoyment
Usually not required, though I do find it useful when someone brings up something that I hadn't considered. I'm usually the one doing the helping.- assistance finding methods for solving technical problems that keep coming up
Required in relationships, but I don't doubt myself excessively in other areas. I respond well to this.- assistance overcoming doubts and taking decisive action
Not sure what to make of this. Too vague.- assistance understanding the meaning of events in your life
Not usually required, I find it irritating and boring when I have to do it and when others help I almost find it insulting.- assistance organizing and structuring your thoughts
Neutral, I'm ok at it depending on my mood. I'd feel awkward if someone tried to help me with it.- assistance in outward expression of your internal state (i.e. self-expression)
The ones I respond negatively to are mostly because anyone who interferes is insulting my abilities.
Who's translating?
Nope/Do not require.
EDIT: Nope/Nope.
Positive/Require.
Nope/Nope. If I understood it correctly, of course.
Nope/Sometimes.
Nope,thanks/Nope.
Nope/What the hell, does that even mean ?
Nope/Nope.
Last edited by Absurd; 12-03-2009 at 07:15 PM.
- assistance understanding and formulating your interests and possibilities
Yes and no, I don’t need help knowing all of my interests/possibilities, I have too many, need limits and direction type of help
- assistance making sense of your feelings towards people and things
Yes, it takes time for them to come to the surface and then I need help putting them into actual words that make sense in the
'real
'world
- assistance relaxing and switching off mental activity to experience enjoyment
yes, always feel people's pull of me
- assistance finding methods for solving technical problems that keep coming up
no, I’m a good technical problem solver, if need help, right away understand the technician’s thoughts/system
- assistance overcoming doubts and taking decisive action
yes, if I want to, but often don’t care
- assistance understanding the meaning of events in your life
no, I easily see beauty in the universe
- assistance organizing and structuring your thoughts
no, not at all. I like to talk casually about them without structure or if I write them out, I am very organized, no help either way
- assistance in outward expression of your internal state (i.e. self-expression)
no, if fact that would piss me off
- assistance understanding and formulating your interests and possibilities
Respond positively to, rarely need assistance
- assistance making sense of your feelings towards people and things
Yes to both
- assistance relaxing and switching off mental activity to experience enjoyment
Depends. Sometimes I'll seek assistance, sometimes I don't want assistance with this. Sometimes respond positively, sometimes not. For me, mental activity *is* enjoyment.
- assistance finding methods for solving technical problems that keep coming up
Depends on the technical problem. Sometimes to both. I like to try to solve it myself first but will gladly seek help if stuck.
- assistance overcoming doubts and taking decisive action
Sometimes to both again. I don't liked to be pushed by others into taking action but I do like some assistance with overcoming doubts. If I can take action in my own time in my own way, I'm much more likely to respond positively.
- assistance understanding the meaning of events in your life
No to both.
- assistance organizing and structuring your thoughts
No to both.
- assistance in outward expression of your internal state (i.e. self-expression)
I sometimes wish I were better at self-expression but its not really something I want much assistance with. Probably because its such a personal thing.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
Ah, good, you've written exactly what I would have. Now I don't have to!
Quaero Veritas.
[quote=Rick;60748]I created a little questionnaire that might turn out to be a good test of type, or at least of certain aspects of type. Those who would like to try this follow the instructions exactly, please:
Which kinds of assistance do you respond positively to and routinely require from others? (please comment on each one, without resorting to any socionics terminology)
Crazy useless. I know *exactly* who I am and what I am capable of doing, in my "heart of hearts" if you'll excuse that phrase. The only trouble is when that inner certainty/self-knowledge starts rubbing up against the external world; that's what introduces doubt.- assistance understanding and formulating your interests and possibilities
Can be positive in the right context. I mean, especially in conversation.- assistance making sense of your feelings towards people and things
The relaxing part not so much, the switching off mental activity part very much so. If I could ever stop thinking (seeming) and start doing (being) then I would be a lot happier... although I would want to visit the world in my head very often, it would be nice to establish a firm residence in the real world as well.- assistance relaxing and switching off mental activity to experience enjoyment
Actually... I find that I can generally handle this fairly well myself. This is something that I *can* do very well, but *prefer* to have done for me. The finding "methods" part is something I don't do; I tend to just fix the problem when/if it comes up, rather than coming up with a generalized "method" for solving the problem.- assistance finding methods for solving technical problems that keep coming up
Probably helpful. I always perform better when I'm not busy doubting whether or not I can perform well. I don't even really know how to take "decisive action." I guess it would be helpful to do so. If this means the impetus to get off my butt and do work, especially work I'm afraid of doing (submitting my poetry for contests and class applications, applying for scholarships, etc.) definitely, although I'm glad that this hasn't always been there in my life so that I know how to make myself do certain things.- assistance overcoming doubts and taking decisive action
Well... depends on the kind of assistance you mean. Again, in conversation, this is great; I generally read, both the Bible and secular literature, for this sort of thing.- assistance understanding the meaning of events in your life
Well, if you mean in a written way, I'm quite good at that, so I don't need so much help in this area, as I know how to communicate very clearly through writing. Also, content > form, when it comes to thought. I mean, sometimes it's nice to give my thinking a shape, some clearly defined boundaries, but this is only for the sake of further thinking; thought-objects (ideas, etc.) are easier to manipulate when they are clearly-defined. But in general, I'm pretty good at this.- assistance organizing and structuring your thoughts
Nah. I'm great at self-expression. I'm not so great at feeling comfortable enough to express myself.- assistance in outward expression of your internal state (i.e. self-expression)
Not a rule, just a trend.
IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.
Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...
I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.
- assistance understanding and formulating your interests and possibilities
Neutral response, I already have a really clear picture that most people can't contribute to. I also therefore don't routinely require help in this at all
- assistance making sense of your feelings towards people and things
Again, I'm confident here. More of a positive response, though, since I can "miss things" in this area. I do not require this routinely from others, but may ask from time to time.
- assistance relaxing and switching off mental activity to experience enjoyment
Respond very positively. This is my holy grail, the divine ideal I hold in my head and quest for and pine afterI need constant help with this though, or I never get out of my head and chill out, mon.
- assistance finding methods for solving technical problems that keep coming up
Respond positively. Require assistance sometimes, usually with forms and things where I'm not confident I have any idea what the fields are asking for. I've managed to pick up how to fix computer problems on my own, though, for instance, and I don't mind diving in to something I'm less confident about if there's no help available.
- assistance overcoming doubts and taking decisive action
Neutral response, leaning towards irritation. This is definitely not something I have issues with, in all my impulsive glory.
- assistance understanding the meaning of events in your life
Very negative response. I want to avoid this as much as possible, it makes me very uncomfortable. Do not need assistance, because I'm quite capable myself, but want to avoid it for the stated reasons.
- assistance organizing and structuring your thoughts
Neutral response, but one of confusion. Attempts to organize my thoughts confuse me, I'd much rather know a bunch of discrete things and have them made sense of in a fuller context, like, "You haven't necessarily understood this properly--here, consider this." or "I don't agree with that interpretation. Here are my thoughts." Do not require routinely, nor would I seek it out.
- assistance in outward expression of your internal state (i.e. self-expression)
I'm quite fine at this on my own. Respond very negatively to others trying to get a reaction out of me or get me to reveal !!DEEP INNER PASSIONS!! (is that Fe assistance or just being obnoxious?). Do not require assistance. I can be very expressive when I want to be, and as stated, I don't take kindly to people trying to control that "when I want to" disclaimer.
I take issue with the last. Artsy ENFJs have a great deal of difficulty expressing themselves. Having confidence in what is felt =/= expressing those feelings.
- assistance understanding and formulating your interests and possibilities
Usually I determine what interests me. I don't need much help, and I can be quite annoyed when people try to get me into a lot of different things.
- assistance making sense of your feelings towards people and things
N/A really. I don't have very strong feelings towards people or things. I usually look to other people to see how I should feel.
- assistance relaxing and switching off mental activity to experience enjoyment
Yes. Definitely. I respond very well to this most of the time, as long as I don't have a ton of things to worry about. I take care of business first.
- assistance finding methods for solving technical problems that keep coming up
No! I'm a star at this. I solve problems--it's what I do.
- assistance overcoming doubts and taking decisive action
Usually I'm the one stepping up to take action. It goes along with the solving problems above.
- assistance understanding the meaning of events in your life
No. Annoying. Who needs meaning? Why can't things just happen?
- assistance organizing and structuring your thoughts
Not particularly. My thoughts are just fine.
- assistance in outward expression of your internal state (i.e. self-expression)
I'm not sure how someone could help me with this. I need to get more in touch with my feelings though. I tend to ignore it, but it's nice when someone wants to know what's going on inside me (aside from bodily functions)
The saddest ESFj
...
Good sort of definition based test, Rick. I'm definitely seeking assistance in just these two, with a greater tendency toward the latter. I can be sort of stubborn and cold with the former:
- assistance making sense of your feelings towards people and things- assistance overcoming doubts and taking decisive action
Last edited by 717495; 12-08-2009 at 01:23 AM.
- assistance understanding and formulating your interests and possibilities
Already pretty adept at this, extra assistance doesn't seem necessary
- assistance making sense of your feelings towards people and things
Pretty good at this too, any more would be overkill
- assistance relaxing and switching off mental activity to experience enjoyment
Definitely not too adept at relaxing myself, some assistance would be appreciated.
- assistance finding methods for solving technical problems that keep coming up
Depends on what kind of technical problem it is. If it's something like dealing with a system of rules and bureaucratic formalities, then I would appreciate that sort of help.
- assistance overcoming doubts and taking decisive action
I dunno lol
- assistance understanding the meaning of events in your life
Doesn't seem all that important to me.
- assistance organizing and structuring your thoughts
Would be nice, seems like an important ability to have.
- assistance in outward expression of your internal state (i.e. self-expression)
Nah, my internal states are my own and nobody else's.
This question measures Fe EM. Has nothing to do with information metabolism.- Assistance in outward expression of your internal state (i.e. self-expression)
assistance relaxing and switching off mental activity to experience enjoyment - I'm usually wound up pretty tightly
assistance understanding the meaning of events in your life - it's always interesting to hear what others feel
assistance in outward expression of your internal state - just noticing myself and making a connection
- assistance understanding and formulating your interests and possibilities
Not required, but always useful.
- assistance making sense of your feelings towards people and things
Not required and pretty much indifferent.
- assistance relaxing and switching off mental activity to experience enjoyment
A+.
- assistance finding methods for solving technical problems that keep coming up
Assistance is useful and I respond positively to this. (However, I don't enjoy being around people who focus much on this aspect.)
- assistance overcoming doubts and taking decisive action
I need help with this, but I very much dislike people who are strong and decisive.
- assistance understanding the meaning of events in your life
This is kind of interesting, but I don't require it.
- assistance organizing and structuring your thoughts
I need no assistance for this, and if someone were to offer assistance, I wouldn't respond positively because I feel that I am competent enough that I don't need help. (Probably in the same way that a professional mathematician would sometimes not enjoy another professional mathematician correcting them about a mathematical mistake that they've made.)
- assistance in outward expression of your internal state (i.e. self-expression)
No need for this. But do I enjoy being around people who are very expressive? Yes.
Jason
The thing that always makes me ornery about Rick's propositions is that I can never tell if he is actually offering them as a means of projecting a new standard, or if he's just toying with them. It's because he's so dominant, I get the impression he means for us to get in line behind whatever he proposes without arguing about it. And I've never seen him admit a wrong on this forum that I can remember. (although if he has, please alert me to the occasion).
- assistance understanding and formulating your interests and possibilities
Not really. I'm usually pretty good with this, although sometimes someone will suggest something that I never really thought about or considered in that kind of way before and then it will just click for me, and so their mentioning of it ends up getting me there faster than I would have had I been left to my own devices (if I would've gotten there at all). Does that make sense?
Respond positively to when the assistance is genuinely helpful, but negatively when it's someone assisting me because they think they know better than I do about what I need/want.
- assistance making sense of your feelings towards people and things
Definitely not lol. I'm very in tune with my own feelings about people and things and can usually talk about them pretty clearly (my feelings tend to change fairly easily/frequently though).
Respond positively to if the assistance goes along with how I'm feeling. Respond neutral if the person is way off base. It doesn't really bother me, I'll just reiterate my own explanations/ignore it/not take what they're saying seriously.
- assistance relaxing and switching off mental activity to experience enjoyment
Hmm... well, I can enjoy things, but I don't think my mental activity is ever really "switched off." Like, I usually can't just do an activity for the sake of doing the activity and be so caught up in the experience of it that I'm not thinking about other things. What will happen is- I'll be eating something, for example- and it tastes really good, but I'm not just thinking about the taste of it. The taste of it or the particular food that I'm eating might remind me of something/someone, and then I'll start thinking about that... and that THAT will remind me of something, and I'll start thinking about THAT... and so on, lol. Sometimes I wish I could lose myself more in physical sensations and just enjoy the experience for what it is (as opposed to being "switched on" all the time).
Respond positively. I like to be able to do this and sort of admire people who are natural in this area.
- assistance finding methods for solving technical problems that keep coming up
Um, yeah. Lol. I mean, I can manage when I really have to, but for the most part I am not very good at this.
Respond positively, cuz I usually need the help haha.
- assistance overcoming doubts and taking decisive action
Yes, hahaha. Well, kind of. I mean, I like to do something because I decided to do it for MYSELF, but I am very prone to doubt and hesitation and find that sometimes, when someone gives me a push in the right direction, it can really help motivate me in taking that final step forward. So basically, I'm ultimately responsible in taking decisive action, but a couple gentle nudges (and okay, okay, even shoves when necessary) are always welcome. :wink:
Respond positively if the assistance is genuine and non-judgmental, but can respond negatively if the person is being nasty and/or too aggressive about it.
- assistance understanding the meaning of events in your life
Eh, not really. This is not to say that I feel like I understand things of this nature on my own completely, but to me, the meaning of life events is just really... subjective. So who's to say that anyone's interpretation of them is the absolute truth, you know? I wouldn't take someone else's opinion on the abstract meaning of something that happened to me as more "accurate" than my own. Am I understanding this question correctly?
Respond neutral, I guess.
- assistance organizing and structuring your thoughts
Ummm, well, my thoughts ARE pretty scattered, but I don't really have that much trouble sifting through them, haha. So, while they aren't exactly organized, I wouldn't say I really required much help in that department because I typically manage alright. If I HAD to structure my thoughts, though, then yeah lol, I'd probably need a little help.
Respond neutral?
- assistance in outward expression of your internal state (i.e. self-expression)
Not... really. I mean, a lot of times I don't like to show (or show the extent of) what I'm truly feeling. But it's not like I'm confused by it, it's just that I choose not to (like if I'm really angry at someone, for example). I hold myself back sometimes, but I'm definitely able to express the way I feel when I want to.
Respond positively, like when someone encourages me to express what I really think/feel. When this happens, I'll usually feel more free to do so around them and like they are listening to me.
.
Good test! I'm hoping it will help me determine my seemingly-elusive type, lmao. So who scores this?
Last edited by hotasphyxiation; 12-10-2009 at 01:42 AM.
You do!Good test! I'm hoping it will help me determine my seemingly-elusive type, lmao. So who scores this?
If how you responded is actually true, then you're probably Delta NF, so either ENFp or INFj.
let's do this
- assistance understanding and formulating your interests and possibilities
Not really.. I'm usually the one who exposes other people to new hobbies and interests, gives career advice, and so on. I'll gladly inquire about others' interests and try them on myself, though.
So, I don't typically require this from others.
- assistance making sense of your feelings towards people and things
I think so. The bigger problem is usually facing and acting on my feelings, though, especially the negative ones--such as cutting off communications with someone I clearly just don't like.
I know exactly what this sounds like, but I don't want to be (or be seen as) a bad person. I wish the best for most everyone and find it hard to dismiss other people, even if they're just plain toxic.
I'll say that I respond positively to this type of assistance, yeah.
Unless they don't allow me to draw my own conclusions.
- assistance relaxing and switching off mental activity to experience enjoyment
I pretty much never do this myself--even most of my exercise comes with reading or listening to audiobooks when I do it. It's only when I visit my parents that I'm content to just watch TV or movies, for example.
A large part of me still doesn't like not being productive or at least learning something, though, but I think that's mostly been due to external pressures growing up. I'm slowly getting over it.
- assistance finding methods for solving technical problems that keep coming up
hahahahahaha no
- assistance overcoming doubts and taking decisive action
In many ways, yes; I want to know that what I'm doing is a sensible way to go about things. But I also hate to be told what to do, and I want to make my own decisions.
I'm slowly learning the lesson that a car is much easier to turn when it's moving, though; that just acting in some capacity will get me started.
- assistance understanding the meaning of events in your life
Nah, I devise my own meaning, and I don't care if it doesn't make sense to other people.
- assistance organizing and structuring your thoughts
Only in the sense that I usually need to write them down or talk them out in order to organize them, but I don't think that counts. If someone has advice for me, I'll take it and incorporate it into my own framework if it's applicable, though.
- assistance in outward expression of your internal state (i.e. self-expression)
This will channel my answer to my "feelings" question and the question just above. Overall, I welcome the chance to talk things out and bounce ideas off of others in this capacity.
Last edited by greed; 12-17-2009 at 03:50 PM.
IEE-Ne | ENFP | 4w3-6w7-9w1 so/sp/sx | sCoA|I| | Sanguine/Choleric | Benevolent Inventor
birthday frog wishes you a happy birthday
birthday frog will give you presents and a card on your birthday
birthday frog is Fe incarnate
Your answers are technically Delta oriented answers, that signify INFj/EII for the most part, or IEE. My answers certainly signify that I'm an ILI. Technically, according to this.
You're so transparent Rick.
- assistance understanding and formulating your interests and possibilities
OOH IT'S NE.
- assistance making sense of your feelings towards people and things
OOH IT'S FI.
- assistance relaxing and switching off mental activity to experience enjoyment
OOH IT'S SI.
- assistance finding methods for solving technical problems that keep coming up
OOH IT'S TE.
- assistance overcoming doubts and taking decisive action
OOH IT'S SE.
- assistance understanding the meaning of events in your life
OOH IT'S NI.
- assistance organizing and structuring your thoughts
OOH IT'S TI.
- assistance in outward expression of your internal state (i.e. self-expression)
OOH IT'S FE
I did not see that, but I guess I like>
>
I don't see the test as insanely accurate, but it certainly helps see a few things as they are in theory, and not just a bunch of newly founded embellishment. My results certainly point to ILI which is accurate. Answering an ILE or LII way, certainly would not be something I would feel comfortable doing, and would yield results incorrectly.
I know that some people think this is good and simple, and other people think this is wrong and simple. Depends on how simple of a case you are, not if the theory is complexly encompassing enough (or whatever excuse there can be). So generally this test is one step in the right direction, and my estimation is that results should be taken with a grain of salt.
These are just too vague for me, depending on the circumstances I'd need all those things, and what you are trying to do. For example if I'm trying to build a bicycle I'd want technical instructions. I wouldn't care about 'meaning', or I'd already have that figured out, 'working out means a lot to me, so I'm doing this technical shit to make my possibility dreams come true.' I just combined a lot of functions in there.
So sorry. But socionic fails. And real reality wins again.
lol. That was exactly what I thought while reading those questions, but w/e. It's hard not to be transparent with this sort of thing. If you read enough of them, it becomes impossible to take personality tests because you know what each of the answers is driving at. ESPECIALLY mbti tests.
Not a rule, just a trend.
IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.
Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...
I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.
These two don't really go together, but the first answer indicates Te seeking, and the second one indicates Ti seeking.
So IXFj and EXFj technically, and grain of salty.
Primary assistance needed (dual-seeking function)
ISXp - assistance understanding and formulating your interests and possibilities
EXTj - assistance making sense of your feelings towards people and things
ENxp - assistance relaxing and switching off mental activity to experience enjoyment
IXFj - assistance finding methods for solving technical problems that keep coming up
INxp - assistance overcoming doubts and taking decisive action
ESxp - assistance understanding the meaning of events in your life
EXFj - assistance organizing and structuring your thoughts
IXTj - assistance in outward expression of your internal state (i.e. self-expression)
Secondary assistance needed (hidden agenda)
ESxj - assistance understanding and formulating your interests and possibilities
IXTp - assistance making sense of your feelings towards people and things
INxj - assistance relaxing and switching off mental activity to experience enjoyment
EXFp - assistance finding methods for solving technical problems that keep coming up
ENxj - assistance overcoming doubts and taking decisive action
ISxj - assistance understanding the meaning of events in your life
IXFp - assistance organizing and structuring your thoughts
EXTp - assistance in outward expression of your internal state (i.e. self-expression)
ENFj = sentence 7 with 5
ESFj = sentence 7 with 1
Although some of these sentences are somewhat inclusively applicable to the dual seeking function and not necessarily the hidden agenda. Sometimes with the hidden agenda, you rather want someone to connect with you in, not necessarily help you with, but they do end up helping you because they're stronger with it.
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