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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Default Considering ILE again

    And no, it's not merely on a whim of self-doubt; I have those more often than this

    Mostly it's with regards to being irrational vs rational. However, I also think that I seek Si more than I've let myself believe in the past; whether it's comfort-seeking behavior, desire for stability, or generally the things I tend to expect from other people without realizing it, Si is definitely one area that I do focus on to some extent and expect reciprocation in. Hard to buy as Si PoLR; it could be due to coming from a heavily-Si family. Also this behavior, whether it's desire for comfort or Si-related expectations of others, is really only salient to any degree when I'm feeling unstable or am in a downturn.

    Also I'm not so sure about being Fe dominant. Fe is something I'm "good" at; I can flex my Fe muscles with the best when I want. But it wears me out, it's tiring; I can't be on that all the time.

    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    What are some reasonable examples for you to be Si seeking?

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    Honestly, I have no interest in your opinion.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Well it makes sense, seeing as though we have various contradicting understandings of this theory. But you seem to me like the type who wouldn't share his opinions anyway, if he had an idea of what they were most of the time: partial, open-ended, open-minded.

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    What's that supposed to mean?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Yay!

    For some reason, I've had a hard time not thinking of you as ILE. Maybe it's just habit. I don't know. You remind me of the ILE comedian type, though.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    What's that supposed to mean?
    I think he's saying you lack and I would have to agree.
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    And no, it's not merely on a whim of self-doubt; I have those more often than this

    Mostly it's with regards to being irrational vs rational. However, I also think that I seek Si more than I've let myself believe in the past; whether it's comfort-seeking behavior, desire for stability, or generally the things I tend to expect from other people without realizing it, Si is definitely one area that I do focus on to some extent and expect reciprocation in. Hard to buy as Si PoLR; it could be due to coming from a heavily-Si family. Also this behavior, whether it's desire for comfort or Si-related expectations of others, is really only salient to any degree when I'm feeling unstable or am in a downturn.
    :
    I am sure that whenever anyone of any type feels down, Si seeking behavior kicks in. If normally you don't tend to seek this, then it probably is not too high on your priority list. And also, it's not like Se egos are weak at Si...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Also I'm not so sure about being Fe dominant. Fe is something I'm "good" at; I can flex my Fe muscles with the best when I want. But it wears me out, it's tiring; I can't be on that all the time.

    What do you mean by being on? For example, I know I really enjoy reading and thinking about various interests, but at the end of it I need to be around people to balance me out a bit. I guess the same would be applicable in your case.

    ps: i don't know you well enough to explicitly determine your type, I just think that the reasons you gave may have different explanations.
    LII?

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    More explanations is the last thing I need.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    More explanations is the last thing I need.
    Fair enough.
    LII?

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    The real question is how you feel about SEIs and ESIs. You might think that you seek Si, but if your relations with these types don't comply, ILE is unlikely, IMO. (OTOH, if they do comply, that changes things entirely...)

    Jason

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    Just a quick word about Si and comfort.

    Si (external field dynamics) has nothing to do with comfort intrinsically. That is, if you take aspectonics to be denotative, as in, the actual psychological mechanics and not just some sciency-sounding labels for something else.

    However, I do believe that in social settings, Si-ers try to find some tangible product they can produce (so they have something to contribute in a relation). A common manifestation of this is regulation of the physical environment, thus maximizing aesthetic pleasure.

    It would be silly though, to limit the scope of Si to just that. Also, that's an action and hence not "Si", but a behavior indirectly linked to Si.

    So if you aren't fascinated by health food or grandmas cookies that really is no reason to type someone as Si devaluing. I say this just as a reminder, although I've said this in Gilly's presence before, so I'm sure he understands my opinion on the matter.
    The end is nigh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Also I'm not so sure about being Fe dominant. Fe is something I'm "good" at; I can flex my Fe muscles with the best when I want. But it wears me out, it's tiring; I can't be on that all the time.
    I don't think this would be true of an ILE. I think ILEs try to use Fe in order to get Fe. My brother constantly makes little irritating remarks about nonsensical things, and persists until it becomes obvious that I won't laugh or act interested.

    Him: Yo wassup. Wanna join my metal band, N***er Coffin? [He's not racist but makes racist comments all the time]

    Me: No. [No Fe reciprocation provokes more attempts]

    Him: Why not?

    Me: Because it sounds boring.

    Him: No it's not. After a show, we drive down to the ghetto and throw phone books at drug dealers.

    Me: I don't think that actually happens.

    Him: Why not?

    Me: Because it's stupid.

    Him: Whatever, man... x 1000



    I think EIEs do Si stuff if they perceive it as the "cool" thing to do when with friends. I don't mean cool in a peer pressure sort of way, but in a way where they have actually determined for themselves that it's a cool thing that they enjoy. And they usually do it with idea of pursuing some sort of "romantic" or "fun" aspect of the Si activity in question, whereas an SLI would do it simply because it's relaxing and they want to enjoy the sensations.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    lmao @ your brother.

    I can sort of reference smoking pot to what you say there about typically "Si" stuff. I had sort of ritualized and romanticized the whole process of smoking weed; one day I actually "woke up" and realized that I didn't enjoy the sensation of being high all that much, and that really I was just running from negative emotions rather than seeking positive sensations.

    But for me, the "Si seeking" I am referring to is more directly seeking comfort: wearing comfortable clothes everywhere, being generally slothful, splurging randomly on comfort food...but really I think these are things that any type can do, and if someone actually tried to "provide" Si for me in a pervasive sense, it would piss the shit out of me.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    But for me, the "Si seeking" I am referring to is more directly seeking comfort: wearing comfortable clothes everywhere, being generally slothful, splurging randomly on comfort food...but really I think these are things that any type can do, and if someone actually tried to "provide" Si for me in a pervasive sense, it would piss the shit out of me.
    So I don't really get your point here. If any type can do them, what's the point of mentioning it? Are you saying that Si types want to dress you more skillfully and tastefully than any other or something? Are you saying that your example is *not* providing Si, or that it is? You make it sound like the Si-ers are waiting in the wings to stuff an enchilada down your throat

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    So I don't really get your point here. If any type can do them, what's the point of mentioning it?
    I mention it because it's part of what goes on in my mind when I am dragging myself through shit and looking for reasons to think I'm not the type I really believe I am.

    Are you saying that Si types want to dress you more skillfully and tastefully than any other or something?
    No, I actually dress very well when I want to.

    Are you saying that your example is *not* providing Si, or that it is? You make it sound like the Si-ers are waiting in the wings to stuff an enchilada down your throat
    I'm saying my example is "looking for Si" by seeking comfort and being slovenly. And yes, I realize it's weak; that's the point. I don't see how I actually DO seek Si in a Socionics-relevant way.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    How has it come to be practically assumed that Gilly is a Fe-Ti type?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I mention it because it's part of what goes on in my mind when I am dragging myself through shit and looking for reasons to think I'm not the type I really believe I am.

    I'm saying my example is "looking for Si" by seeking comfort and being slovenly. And yes, I realize it's weak; that's the point. I don't see how I actually DO seek Si in a Socionics-relevant way.
    Ti:

    describing thinking processes:
    - expressing thoughts
    - constructions of correspondence that reflect the train of thought (logical connectors)
    - introductory phrases
    - issues related to reflecting thought processes; clarifying one's position

    Watch your inner state as this thread continues, btw. Fe-bases will use Ti in a much more uninhibited way than Ti-creatives or Fe-creatives. Arguing with other people shouldn't put a strain on you, but rather, it should be enjoyable. Also, chewing people in this thread out in an emotional way can be easily correlated with base Fe, due to unrestricted/uninhibited Fe... "Strong passions are just a part of life, duh. What are you stressing about?"

    Compare to Gul who becomes more strained and stressed as a Gultypan thread progresses, to the degree where I don't even like discussing my type with people I know now.

    Also, a focus on "I feel strained, so I won't talk about my type" or "I'm too heavy, so think I'll take a slower walk" and other such internal states (be they physiological or psychological) is a hallmark of Irrationality. Rationals will tend to have rigid schedules and obligations and do something to "get over" any inhibiting states so they can get on with whatever they're trying to do.

    In theory, of course. I'm not a Rational, so I can't really speak for you guys!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    It's still goofy as fuck.
    Redman is a goofy motherfucker. He's also my dual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isha View Post
    I know you've sorted this out already, but there is a difference between the Si-PoLR of the EIE and the LIE.

    The EIE's PoLR is Si blocked with Te, so rather than simply "comfort" it's about things like budgeting, administrative things like filling out forms and doing taxes, keeping the car in good repair, etc.. EIEs can actually be quite extravagant and hedonistic. The LIE is the ascetic who cares naught for comfort.
    Good points.

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    Good points indeed...considering I can be rather extravagant and hedonistic
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    And yes, I am fucking atrocious at those things, as the managers who are forced to stay with me until 2 AM waiting for be to get my paperwork straight will attest to

    ESE manager: "For someone who's so damn smart, you're really dumb sometimes." (in reference to my numerous paperwork fails.)
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    I don't think this would be true of an ILE. I think ILEs try to use Fe in order to get Fe.
    I think Gilly does this, though. A lot.

    So let's say, theoretically, he's ENTp. It makes sense he would appreciate the focus an Fe creative person would contribute in the way of duality. And that he'd want to incite people in various ways in order to get that. I see him liking someone else's skillful Fe as opposed to trying to stimulate their Ti or something. I think Gilly is a Ti mofo already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    I think Gilly does this, though. A lot.
    Not really.

    So let's say, theoretically, he's ENTp. It makes sense he would appreciate the focus an Fe creative person would contribute in the way of duality. And that he'd want to incite people in various ways in order to get that. I see him liking someone else's skillful Fe as opposed to trying to stimulate their Ti or something. I think Gilly is a Ti mofo already.
    lol...I wish ;_;
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    And no, it's not merely on a whim of self-doubt; I have those more often than this

    Mostly it's with regards to being irrational vs rational. However, I also think that I seek Si more than I've let myself believe in the past; whether it's comfort-seeking behavior, desire for stability, or generally the things I tend to expect from other people without realizing it, Si is definitely one area that I do focus on to some extent and expect reciprocation in. Hard to buy as Si PoLR; it could be due to coming from a heavily-Si family. Also this behavior, whether it's desire for comfort or Si-related expectations of others, is really only salient to any degree when I'm feeling unstable or am in a downturn.

    Also I'm not so sure about being Fe dominant. Fe is something I'm "good" at; I can flex my Fe muscles with the best when I want. But it wears me out, it's tiring; I can't be on that all the time.


    ILE then. join me in rebelling against delta.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    join me in rebelling against delta.
    I thought we shared something deep and special. And now you tell me this? I'm deeply hurt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    I thought we shared something deep and special. And now you tell me this? I'm deeply hurt.

    lol you can join too!

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    And no, it's not merely on a whim of self-doubt; I have those more often than this

    Mostly it's with regards to being irrational vs rational. However, I also think that I seek Si more than I've let myself believe in the past; whether it's comfort-seeking behavior, desire for stability, or generally the things I tend to expect from other people without realizing it, Si is definitely one area that I do focus on to some extent and expect reciprocation in. Hard to buy as Si PoLR; it could be due to coming from a heavily-Si family. Also this behavior, whether it's desire for comfort or Si-related expectations of others, is really only salient to any degree when I'm feeling unstable or am in a downturn.

    Also I'm not so sure about being Fe dominant. Fe is something I'm "good" at; I can flex my Fe muscles with the best when I want. But it wears me out, it's tiring; I can't be on that all the time.

    You are considering ILE, yet you claim your adept at Fe?

    I have yet to meet an ILE even slightly above adequate at Fe, much less one able to 'flex with the best'. I'm not saying you're not an ILE, but its either one or the other. Not to mention, ILE is in a whole different quadra. Have your values suddenly dramatically changed?

    Ethical is a safe bet.
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate
    You are considering ILE, yet you claim your adept at Fe?
    IMO it's a compensatory claim aimed at maintaining the integrity of Gilly's conceptions of his "logical" and "emotional" abilities. It's akin to me saying how I can "flex my Se muscles with the best of them," by sole virtue of possessing a strong reactivity to it and an ability to effectively interact with other Se-valuers in a certain manner. Then I would be able to cite behavioral examples that buttressed the claim, and so on. Still doesn't mean it's an ego function!

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    IMO it's a compensatory claim aimed at maintaining the integrity of Gilly's conceptions of his "logical" and "emotional" abilities. It's akin to me saying how I can "flex my Se muscles with the best of them," by sole virtue of possessing a strong reactivity to it and an ability to effectively interact with other Se-valuers in a certain manner. Then I would be able to cite behavioral examples that buttressed the claim, and so on. Still doesn't mean it's an ego function!
    yes. well said.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    No it wasn't. Don't fucking undermine my efforts! The ethereal clouds can save you, if you let yourself fall through.
    You're not even certain of it, it's clear as day.

    But...Ne dominance? Seriously? I could see Ni dominance more easily, TBH.

    Maybe it would be more helpful to people other than just you and I in this process if you gave a more general impression of me as seen IRL; after all, only you and Expat have ever encountered me in the flesh.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post


    But...Ne dominance? Seriously? I could see Ni dominance more easily, TBH.
    I'm sure you could see a lot of things more easily than Ne. Ne base is inherently distrustful of any view of reality that isn't its own. For example, my digging my heels in and FURIOUS DEFENCE'ing my various self-typings (or other-typings, for that matter).

    I think this might be more of a tendency in IEEs than ILEs, though.

    Another comment on Ne: these "whims of self-doubt" could easily be "Bored. Must... mix... things... UP! *hulk*" or the crux of a little internal juggling act of lots of possibilities (I trust that the latter actually happens, because it definitely happens to me).

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    EIE makes perfect sense to me.
    SEE

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    EIE makes perfect sense to me.
    I feel the same, yes.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    *drills hole in skull*
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    When everyone was set on you being ILE it made sense to most but now that everyone got used to thinking of you as EIE and that seems to make the most sense. You can't depend on that. You have to search yourself and deepen your own understanding of the elements, read more. If not you'll always be wavering based on a whim because you don't understand this theory as well as you should or maybe you don't understand yourself. It's the exact same thing for me.
    Was I just giving Ti advice?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesy View Post
    When everyone was set on you being ILE it made sense to most but now that everyone got used to thinking of you as EIE and that seems to make the most sense. You can't depend on that. You have to search yourself and deepen your own understanding of the elements, read more. If not you'll always be wavering based on a whim because you don't understand this theory as well as you should or maybe you don't understand yourself. It's the exact same thing for me.
    Was I just giving Ti advice?
    this.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Gilly seems very adept at giving ethical advice about things, and also I believe is usually aware of how something is wrong or not. This would exclude ILE and Fi porl IMO. I've been browsing the forum and he has been very effective at ending some conflicts that have arisen, moreover, giving appropriate reprimands to the parties involved. All this would lead me to think that he favors Fi over Fe. If he was a Fe/Ni ego type, I think IEI, with the Fe subtype, would suit better than EIE, because according to that theory that circulates about subtypes, it would strengthen the Fi function (2,3,5, and 8 -- the demonstrative function) and also it would explain why he doesn't come out as controlling as other Ni+Fe's. One also has to remember that he is a 3w4, and that basically means that he can shape his identity to his will (or maybe spontaneously according to circumstance) to some extent. This makes it all much harder to type him.

  38. #38
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesy View Post
    When everyone was set on you being ILE it made sense to most but now that everyone got used to thinking of you as EIE and that seems to make the most sense. You can't depend on that. You have to search yourself and deepen your own understanding of the elements, read more. If not you'll always be wavering based on a whim because you don't understand this theory as well as you should or maybe you don't understand yourself. It's the exact same thing for me.
    Was I just giving Ti advice?
    I understand the theory perfectly well. I've been at this - researching, typing, reading, observing - for, what, almost 4 years now? I know the theory, and I know myself; I just can't seem to connect the two.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  39. #39

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    Here is the promised impression.

    •Controlled energy: a self-generated modulation of behavior and expression is prominent. This doesn't really inhibit things like sociability, nor does it detract from the consistently manifest laid-back demeanor; for the most part, it's something underlying. Said thing can result in a social interaction resembling more of a chess game than casual small talk (speaking from an onlooker position); it can also enhance the effectiveness of stronger emotive expressions.

    •General reservedness: nowhere near as "omg look at me!" as forum and stickam behavior would suggest. If any "attention-seeking" occurs in social environments, it's pursued with mechanical tact, rendering the attention gained more of an invisible spotlight than some platform to scream from. The baseline self-absorption somewhat contradicts the interpersonal ability, but ultimately gives it a subtlety that ultimately makes it more pleasant to be around.

    •Mediating: not in a softhearted, caregiver sense; it's more of a consistent awareness of relations to things and people. I would liken it to a spider in the middle of a web, sans the negative connotations of said thing. This kind of trait entails a genuine attentiveness to matters concerning friends, which prevents self-serving manipulation and ignoring important people; it also spans into a more tangible realm, which preserves a sense of structure in regards to things like work.

    •Future-oriented: does not appear especially aware to immediate conditions – especially in the social realm – despite possessing a seemingly integrated manner of going about various activities. Our conversations tend to focus more on personal reflections and aspirations for the future. Additionally, discussions about people always carry a latent sense of strategy, with a mutually-understood awareness that we are more interested in how they tick, rendering an overall bent towards anticipating the entertainment that unfolding patterns will produce.


    That is all for now!

  40. #40
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I always try to tell people, "I'm not as outgoing as I seem here, I swear to fucking god!" And nobody believes it.

    NOW THEY HAVE TO

    FUCKERS
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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