I don't know that it's all that stereotypical to say it would be unlikely for an esi to jump on stage and make a public scene about the wrong person getting an award. In that vein, any prediction you could make about anybodys behavior based on type is propagating stereotypes. Is it impossible for an esi to do something like that? Of course not. Is it likelier for an see? Of course.
Mhm yeah. I'd also count in Kanye's blatant counterphobia. That really makes any type do some... things...Originally Posted by lungs
IE is more about the delivery, motivation do do something relies on the e-types.
Kanye is well... Kanye is a narcissist. It seems like he has to make everything about himself, like he has to take credit for something that really had nothing to do with him or had no personal involvement in. He seems to have a kind of a delusion of grandeur. He seems to think of himself as some sort of a genius or even like a Jesus sort of a person. He appears to have a savior complex, like as if he can save the entire humanity by himself alone. It seems as if he can inspire a lot of people with his own charisma and charm, or through his art, which is actually quite good, "deep" and somewhat interesting. His art tend to be on the odd, bizarre side. He appears to care a lot about his art, and very particular about the kind of an impact it could have on people. When he's performing, his performance appears to be carefully crafted and well thought out in advance. He seems to hold a lot of internal aggression, although this doesn't really come out in an irritating way, but more that he makes you feel aggressive, and not in a way that he points his aggression at you.
I'm confused by your response... why are you calling me bud, and why are you implying I thought it was a big deal to you?
(I was simply trying to explain why the shit kanye does is definitely consistent with Fi base, because he likely sees it the way I put it... thus while introverted and ethical doesn't mean he can't be an outrageous ass to Taylor, etc)
*cue Chae with the socionics stuff*
Savior, impact, transferring aggression to others, getting into other people's business, taking credit --> Se
Genius, odd and bizarre, inspiring, somewhat interesting, attempt at genius --> Ne
Advance thinking, depth, victimization --> Ni
Grandeur, charisma and charm, making others feel the way he does --> Fe
When I piece that together:
It excludes SLE and SEE since we have lots of intuition, SEE in particular - Fi is where?? IEE also can't be the case, too much Se going on. Leaves us with "Misguided EIE" for the Yeezus with an annoying Se HA (...but Beyoncé had...) that pisses everybody off, masking the good Fe and Ne parts he actually produces. Would pretty much destroy the stereotype that EIEs are smiley people.
Last edited by Chae; 04-12-2017 at 10:17 PM.
I'm Canadian, I call everyone bud. It's a common term of phrase here, nothing further. I've called dozens of peeps here, men and woman, bud.
Okay I concede to your point, however unlikely a FiSe guy would do that, it is possiple none-the-less. The Taylor moment might not be type related, although in my opinion it remains significant.
Sure, you took the words out of my mouth.
Ne-creative no doubts
SEE-Fi so/sx 3w4 the 'darksider' sx-subtype
and Kim is LSE-Si sx/so 7w8
so it's a "benefit" type union between them
ILE
looking back on this I now think you're right. I thought he was Fi base because at that time I thought I was Fi base; but my current thinking is both me and kanye are Fi creative
what makes you feel like you relate to him regarding Fi-creative?
well, for me anyway, fi creative or any function can't be understood apart from what its blocked with and quadral values, so for SEE its through the lens of Se. I see kanye interested in making aesthetic evaluations and concerning himself with power. I would say I essentially do the same thing but concern myself more with philosophical notions of aesthetics. a lot of people associate aesthetics with Si but I believe aesthetic sensitivity in the rational, not perceptual sense, is associated with ethics, because its about the relationships i.e.: proportion between animated things. things like art and fashion are part of that because they fundamentally symbolize animated not inert phenomena which is how more how numbers and other scientific notation function
which isn't to say Si has nothing to do with it but it is more about how and what medium those judgments are conveyed in. Fi role has a linear quality to it where the aesthetics are very much about the formal aspects, but you see more subversive art in other than 2d aesthetic judgments. I think when you see more technical mastery and art for developing the formal qualities of the medium itself you're getting into SLI/LSI territory whereas SEI/ESI is more about pushing the ethical barriers. which is considered bizarre or forward thinking is sort of contextual like any progress in the socion. I thnik the S aspects relate more to music and visual art, with the N aspects being more literature philosophy and poetry, but of course there is considerable crossover because you can bring one sensitivity to the other medium just as much as SLI can be an actor and EIE could be a bricklayer, etc
That's why i think it is best to not use oneself as a measuring stick for type. He seems extroverted however. I've not got further than that.
I think we can't not use ourselves as a measuring stick for type, but I get what you mean
Ya @Bertrand, i think i see what you're trying to say: we have to start with how we relate to others, what with intertype relations and all. Yet i think another ESI is still another ESI regardless of what i end up typing myself as in the end, like i think there other methods of typing that allow for this, but they are more contrived (like reinin for instance etc). Cheers
if you adopt those methods you're just presupposing whoever came up with them is who they say they are too, so like at some point everyone has to make that choice. like I said the problem of typology is the problem of misunderstanding itself. one way to get around that is to operate on a measure of faith which grounds base assumptions, but if you do away with them you can only rely on your perceptions, or better yet, start from the assumption that all your perceptions are true, which is the phenomenological starting point. what this means is as your perceptions change your ideas and thoughts will reflect that... people usually don't like change, so they take it to be sufficient reason to say you were either wrong then or wrong now, but the idea is you're not worth trusting and can be dismissed. but its all an illusion, truth as far as I can tell is in admitting you don't know it all, not just doubling down on something out of what amounts essentially to pride. this is why lucifer is identified with rationality, because the "bringer of light" had this prideful capacity that distinguishes good/evil but at the same time deceives and occasions the fall. you can tell Jung was an irrational because he says God is commitment to perception, which is a statement of the basic principle (i.e.: God). if you look at hotelambushes thoughts on Jung and God and religion the distinction becomes clear in how rationality is valued... Jung also says God is present whether he is invited or not
I really like this post. To me it is more about not wanting to mislead others. But i guess that means i assume they don't like change. haha
yes that is precisely hotelambushes concern too; I think that's dead on!
I think your suggestion brings more freedom. I'll try it out more often lol.yes that is precisely hotelambushes concern too; I think that's dead on!
Hmm, i rather remember hotelambush once somewhat stating i had typed someone wrong assuming that i'd used myself as a measuring stick for ESI and i hadn't. But, people will assume w/e they want any way, So. Screw that, maybe i should use myself as a measuring stick more often lol and thanks for this.
lol try it, but people will make fun of you, but fuck em. thats exactly right, I would say its fear that keeps people from doing it more--fear of being made fun of or discounted, and also for the actual consequences of being wrong, like making a bad investment. its easier said than done, I'm scared of a lot of stuff... I think its why Jack is so great, because he's like screw it and will roll the dice. of course sometimes it all goes to shit too, so its like well pick your poison... such is life
its like kierkegaard said, marry or not you will regret it
Kanye West - ESTP - Zhukov
He kind of annoys me. His ego is bigger than his head.
good bye
I can't fully convince myself that he's a 3. He seems to be constantly doing things that threaten his public image. A 3 performer trying to shock would just throw explicit sex or blasphemy in their performances, which would cause controversy, but it won't threaten their fanbase. What we see Kanye doing now is openly courting the right, something absolutely forbidden in modern pop music, particularly black popular music.
Sure he's arrogant and flashy, but ultimately he fights his causes even if it damages his image. I think he's a 6w7 sx/so.
Kanye West: Se-ESFp (Dominant subtype) [SEE-Fe?]
Last edited by HERO; 06-08-2018 at 01:50 PM.
IEE inert subtype
Scoop de whoop, when I opened this thread first I was gonna say ESI. He's got those sad Fi eyes.
I really think he's Beta NF, ignore the public perception of him and his rants and look at the overall bigger picture if your a fan of him ofc, if your not I can see why its going to be difficult to agree with me but its cool
He is way too idealistic and sometimes unrealistic(not to me but to the general public possibly) to be a Gamma SF and I am 100% he is Fe leading or maybe even Fe creative with Ni leading, I see the former based on his concerts where he is always tuning to the flow of the crowd, that explains why sometimes it feels like the rants are timed, he wants to make an impact to the concert and he accurately knows how to generate excitement, he's always had a longer term visionary perspective with his music and ideals, thats why a lot of people find him annoying as soon as he makes statements, its simply because Kanye has a longer term perspective and many people do not understand him at first I feel. He is always talking about ideals and how if he could do it so could you etc. The bear theme from the College Dropout-Graduation is a dreamy, optimistic trilogy that sole focus was to basically transform rap from the over populated facade rap into fully authentic rap. Its clear Kanye had a long term perspective with that trilogy and he fulfilled that vision imho.
I wish I was better at explaining myself then I could find an accurate explanation for this but I strongly believe he's a Beta NF- most likely EIE-Ni, if your into rap youd know he is one of the most creative, idealistic and extravagant dudes in rap history.
"EIEs have a tendency to impose their opinions on others in a forceful way, especially when challenged by a point of view that conflicts with theirs. They dislike giving in to others when they strongly believe in their own way of doing things, and can act smug and arrogant towards people who openly criticize their viewpoints." Maybe this is the explanation i'm looking for.
As for enneagram, He is a clear sx/sp 4, I believe his rants come from pure anger. He has always been different from the norm, also his risk taking and dramatic expression in his career is very 4. I really do not see 3,6,8 anywhere in him knowing him as a fan. He always talks about stating what he believes is right, how we can make the world a better place and goes on idealistic/optimistic tangents in just about most interviews. In some of the interviews I noticed yesterday when studying Gandhi that Kanye was very positively influenced by him - I watched Kanye's interviews from start to finish and when I read Gandhis quotes I quickly noticed that the influence, its very surprising that Kanye has never mentioned it because after reading Gandhis quotes its quite blatant. Sorry I went off topic but it was really intruging to me about the stark notice of influence so I thought i'd share it as a big fan of Kanye and a growing fan of Gandhi after those quotes.
As for enneagram tritype - I see him as triple idealistic, he had a vision to manifest change from day one (with the trilogy as mentioned before) and the rest is history. Everything he does is part of a vision. He doesn't have an 8 or 6 in his tritype at all, compare him to DMX and Joe Budden(both sx 4s with 6 and 8) , Kanye is actually positive in his raps and really soft spoken whereas the other 2 are dark and in interviews possess a very aggressive stance whilst wanting to maintain control of the situation they're in, they're much more aggressive and domineering than Kanye if that makes sense whereas Kanye is probably only like that when he sees something wrong, its as if he's infuriated, hes generally very soft in nature.
Final Typing: EIE-Ni 4w?-7w6-1w?
Am sure on ESI-Se 3w4 so/sx
4w3 sx/sp
"Stay tuned up and down your timeline
This fake news, people is all lyin'
Money is bein' made when a mom cries
Won't be satisfied 'til we all die
Tell me, who do we call to report crime
If 9-1-1 doin' the driveby?
It's certain things I can't abide by
I ain't bein' extreme, this is my side
Talkin' big shit, ready to die
I know every story got two sides
Claimin' he paranoid by the black guy
Cop wanna make it home by night time
Just a good kid, he wasn't that guy
Had a little hit, he wasn't that high
Cop gon' claim that it was self-defense
Say he was ridin' dirty so the case rests"
Kanye is the epitome of sx/so.
I would have to disagree completely, he has much more inner conflict and tension than a sx/so would have besides sx/sp fits him in every way. Every goal and ambition he has always relates to his personal cause, not a social cause and I would look at it from a reaction standpoint, a sx/so would still be aware of the audience and how to maintain a positive reaction from others because of so being aware of how other people think of them and their reputation. Kanye isn't like that at all he does everything from a personal perspective which is possibly why he gets the reaction he gets.
An sx/so rapper would be Andre 3000 for example much more smooth and naturally assertive in conversation than Kanye. Kanye has a lot of inner tension when you watch him in videos.
Most of what Kanye does is based on sx getting a reaction, I think thats why people tend to type him sx/so but he doesn't have so in his instinct stacking at all imo. I think that relates to it being one of his weaknesses in his career. Everything is about a personal cause.
Wouldn't Leave for example is a stereotypical sx/sp song. "How are the people that are closest to me going to react to this?" - is how he interprets everything.
"They appear to be on an eternal search for the missing piece. Their ambitions are personal in nature, without a direct social cause. They may have a naturally seductive, sexual charisma that manifests as a fantastical, erotic playfulness or an untouchable aura to others."
I think ESI-Se.
I agree with the UltimateDJ. EIE 4w3 sx/so.
I don't get why people say he's Fe lead. His interviews and public appearances often come across as tone-deaf to the emotional environment - he just focuses on himself and his own feelings and values. This tendency of his generates a shit ton of publicity, making the incidents well-known, so again, I don't get why people on the internet would argue EIE. If you think he's EIE, what you're probably seeing is mobilizing Ni, which is weak, but nevertheless drives his artistic vision, so he feels entitled to rely on it in contexts that make less sense.
Last edited by Desert Financial; 09-27-2018 at 02:42 PM.
How does focusing on himself lead to a ton of publicity that doesn't make sense at all
I really don't understand how his socio Ni is weak
"Types that value Ni always like to have in mind a specific plan for how their life will develop in the future."
He did exactly this with all the investments he made before his career, he made sure he had the resources that he lined up all in one big picture
Tell me why do you think he chose to do a public speaking course,invest in all of his resources, planned his first 3 albums top to bottom before they even came out etc the list goes on. My point here is he always has the future in his mind with everything he does.
Now for some of the incidents, he's just emotionally expressive.
Look
If you told one of your closest friends wife they were going to win an award that means so much to their career over-excitedly and drunk and then an hour later it doesn't happen, of course he was going to react emotionally
Isn't POLR Si assosciated with the need to be productive and that they must be doing something, Kanye is known to go overboard as much as possible regardless of his health in order to make sure his goals manifest out. That's how he beat 50 in those sales thing he wouldn't stop until everything was perfect.
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