Kanye West

[maniac]

Everyone seems to think that he is gamma SF, SEE especially. But I think he is an intuitive introvert. Listen to the lyrics he write and the poems. They weren't written by a sensor. In interviews he doesn't seem "there". He wants to be a part of something larger than life- He also calls himself shy in interviews, and I get that impression too, he's a little socially awkward and he's guarded. He's a little bit like me. Also think hes social last. Probably sp/sx cause vibes contraflow... Goes well with Kim who is sx/sp.

[summerprincess]

xNFx I agree @Ghost

[Chae]

Bwahaha. If Kanye is my dual, I'll quit Socionics and shoot myself into space.

This man is an ILE-Ti!

"I'm a creative genius" said no SEE ever. No Fi-subtype could manage to insult as many people as he did. Fi + 4.5 D Fe want to maintain good relations and mood. polr as hell, abstract anti-ethical ramblings all over the place, fueled by contraflow ideals. Innovation is Kanye's #1 pursuit. Yeezus, clothing line et cetera. Collaborated with other Alpha types already, see Daft Punk.

SEE-Fi is not blatantly egoic, I have yet to meet a self-promoting `snob´ like that - they would rather use covert manipulation. Also. They are smiley. Kanye - oh. When he smiles his creepy smile once in a blue moon, it makes me angry I just went through a Kanye smile compilation for confirmation and cringed. SEE-Fi - a usually soft and sometimes shy subtype - has to go a long way to do that. When they are insecure, they are giggly and start sweet-talking. When Kanye is insecure, he loudly toots his own horn with reality-bending statements and a cold face.

More V.I evidence. Se eyes are piercing. Compare Jason Momoa. These eyes see you. Ne, as Kanye demonstrates it, is staring into space, similar to Ni. Looking right through you.



The cherry on top: Kim is his perfect dual - SEI-Fe!

[ScarlettLux]

I think he might be a deranged EIE-Ni or EVEN IEI-Fe. Yep. I said it.

[Chae]

I think he might be a deranged EIE-Ni or EVEN IEI-Fe. Yep. I said it.

Hm.. how do deranged Ni and Fe actually manifest?

[Vers]

Everyone seems to think that he is gamma SF, SEE especially. But I think he is an intuitive introvert. Listen to the lyrics he write and the poems.

Kanye has a team of writers. Just saying.

[darya]

Bwahaha. If Kanye is my dual, I'll quit Socionics and shoot myself into space.

This man is an ILE-Ti!

"I'm a creative genius" said no SEE ever. No Fi-subtype could manage to insult as many people as he did. Fi + 4.5 D Fe want to maintain good relations and mood. polr as hell, abstract anti-ethical ramblings all over the place, fueled by contraflow ideals. Innovation is Kanye's #1 pursuit. Yeezus, clothing line et cetera. Collaborated with other Alpha types already, see Daft Punk.

SEE-Fi is not blatantly egoic, I have yet to meet a self-promoting `snob´ like that - they would rather use covert manipulation. Also. They are smiley. Kanye - oh. When he smiles his creepy smile once in a blue moon, it makes me angry I just went through a Kanye smile compilation for confirmation and cringed. SEE-Fi - a usually soft and sometimes shy subtype - has to go a long way to do that. When they are insecure, they are giggly and start sweet-talking. When Kanye is insecure, he loudly toots his own horn with reality-bending statements and a cold face.

More V.I evidence. Se eyes are piercing. Compare Jason Momoa. These eyes see you. Ne, as Kanye demonstrates it, is staring into space, similar to Ni. Looking right through you.



The cherry on top: Kim is his perfect dual - SEI-Fe!

Can't tell if he's Ne base or just plain crazy, but I see your point : ) Also good observation on eyes, SEE's stare and see you and everything else very precisely, they are present. I think Kim is ESE-Si though and Kylie SEI-Fe in comparison.

[yifflord]

Excellent producer and lyricist. Definitely NiSe-valuing over NeSi-valuing. His narcissism makes him difficult to type but I wouldn't argue with SEE, EIE or LIE in that order.

[Chae]

Excellent producer and lyricist. Definitely NiSe-valuing over NeSi-valuing. His narcissism makes him difficult to type but I wouldn't argue with SEE, EIE or LIE in that order.

At least the Yeezus concept seemed NiSe cause EIE = Jesus
Other concrete examples?

[yifflord]

At least the Yeezus concept seemed NiSe cause EIE = Jesus
Other concrete examples?

Not sure what you mean by concrete - I used to listen to him religiously but I haven't in over a year and I haven't seen that many interviews, so I'm not going to be able to quote anything verbatim at you - but from what I have seen I don't think he's someone who values Si. Kanye isn't preoccupied with comfort, rest or ease. He's constantly active and doing and expanding on his body of work with a sense of urgency; the only time he did take a break was when he had to hide from the Swift debacle. He's been preoccupied with fashion since he was a teenager but it was a preoccupation with the meaning of his clothes, how they cemented him in the strata of society, not physical comfort. He has notions of his own cosmic importance and grandiosity that I associate with Ni-valuing. His general mannerism is wilful, intense, somewhat aggressive. On a more basic level, I have a difficult time seeing him as someone with a child-like or caregiving erotic attitude.

[Chae]

Not sure what you mean by concrete - I used to listen to him religiously but I haven't in over a year and I haven't seen that many interviews, so I'm not going to be able to quote anything verbatim at you - but from what I have seen I don't think he's someone who values Si. Kanye isn't preoccupied with comfort, rest or ease. He's constantly active and doing and expanding on his body of work with a sense of urgency; the only time he did take a break was when he had to hide from the Swift debacle. He's been preoccupied with fashion since he was a teenager but it was a preoccupation with the meaning of his clothes, how they cemented him in the strata of society, not physical comfort. He has notions of his own cosmic importance and grandiosity that I associate with Ni-valuing. His general mannerism is wilful, intense, somewhat aggressive. On a more basic level, I have a difficult time seeing him as someone with a child-like or caregiving erotic attitude.

Hm, I get the arguments, I agree with most things also. On the other hand, if he's a Ne-subtype, he completely lacks Si so we need a more nuanced look. We can type his lyrics.

[yifflord]

Hm, I get the arguments, I agree with most things also. On the other hand, if he's a Ne-subtype, he completely lacks Si so we need a more nuanced look. We can type his lyrics.

Tbh subtypes have always been an afterthought to me. It's always made sense to me that any ILE should display valuing of Si, regardless of whether or not they're personally strong in it.

Addressing your typing of him via Fi-PoLR more closely, I'm not sure what anti-ethical ramblings you're talking about (pls feel free to point me in the right direction) but putting aside his statements of extreme narcissism for a second, his off-script statement with Mike Myers, his move with Swift and that whole pants thing never struck me as Fi-PoLR? In all those instances I think he was trying to accomplish something profound - highlighting racial discrimination against his community, against Beyonce/music by black artists in general, and against himself. Whether or not he achieved it is another matter.

From what I can remember of his lyrics I wouldn't argue with him being intuitive, but I'm hesitant to go 'clever lyrics, word play, capable of double meanings = intuitive.' Consistent theme throughout his works (College Dropout, Late Registration, Graduation). He has this extremely hard, aggressive image but bares his vulnerabilities in his lyrics, is deeply honest about his behaviour and his motivations, reflects on his position now and where he came from. Constantly references fashion as status symbol and race relations, is preoccupied with these themes. Reflects on psychosocial explanations of trends in his community. I didn't listen to 808's and Heartbreak because I didn't care for it but I thought My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy was a really beautiful, logical progression from his trilogy. In general I can see the Fi and Ni.

After that I stopped listening to him

[Resonare]

The real Kanye without the antics.



INTp?

[Singu]

I think he might be a deranged EIE-Ni or EVEN IEI-Fe. Yep. I said it.

Yeah, I think he might be a deranged EIE... Maybe he has done too much drugs or something, but on the Ellen's show he pumps up the audience and goes on a massive rant/"orating" about the humanity in 100 years or whatever, and goes on about how there are no "geniuses" like Picasso and Steve Jobs anymore:

[Chae]

Kanye sure is one special flower. I changed my mind about ILE, I meanwhile think he could very well be an ethical type. He operates much on conviction and his understanding of humanity, as above. Contrast him to Jay Z who's logical, there's quite a difference.

[Chae]

Analyzing this... ?

[Singu]

It's like the ******'s TV speech in the satirical movie "Er Ist Wider Da/Look Who's Back":



Even if he's talking total nonsense, he has the ability to hypnotize an entire audience.

[The Reality Denialist]

Analyzing this... ?

That was... Se overdose. The intensity is just clear. No alpha or delta would go for this.
Could it be the so called hidden in shadows power of SLE? Gives that impression.

[Chae]

That was... Se overdose. The intensity is just clear. No alpha or delta would go for this.
Could it be the so called hidden in shadows power of SLE? Gives that impression.

Yeah I agree, no Si quadraness there. It's basically the same in "New Slaves", it's like his recent music turns more and more toward Se. "Harder better faster stronger" sums it up.

[Chae]

That he compares himself to Jesus - hint at Gamma SF? Or just another prestige Se reference?

[Jake]

What about SLE? He's the Trump of the music industry, basically.

[Chae]

What about SLE? He's the Trump of the music industry, basically.

Trump of the music industry... yeah why not!



Dug out one of his older videos. ^^^^ Without a doubt it's pure again.

[Olimpia]

I used to wonder whether he is SEE-Fi or ESI-Se.

I have settled on ESI-Se.

He's got the expressionless Fe Ignoring look in most of his pics.
He does not seem to be Fe Demonstrative. His emotional expression can be pretty restricted, which is characteristic of Fe Ignoring.

When he gets into his intuitive ramblings, it is mostly a mix of Ni HA, social criticism, and weed.

Enneagram-wise, I'd say he is 6w7 Sx/So (638).
Definitely counter phobic.

[wacey]

I used to wonder whether he is SEE-Fi or ESI-Se.

I have settled on ESI-Se.

He's got the expressionless Fe Ignoring look in most of his pics.
He does not seem to be Fe Demonstrative. His emotional expression can be pretty restricted, which is characteristic of Fe Ignoring.

When he gets into his intuitive ramblings, it is mostly a mix of Ni HA, social criticism, and weed.

Enneagram-wise, I'd say he is 6w7 Sx/So (638).
Definitely counter phobic.

I ask myself: would a ESI go on stage in front of hundreds of celebrities on live television in the most cringy manner to obnoxiously claim the wrong person won the award?

[Olimpia]

I ask myself: would a ESI go on stage in front of hundreds of celebrities on live television in the most cringy manner to obnoxiously claim the wrong person won the award?

Why not?

Are you saying introverted Gammas won't ever say stupid things or go on stage?

I don't type someone according to such stereotypes only.
I look at what kind of functional order the person seems to possess and express.
If you don't agree with me there, that's fine.

P.S: That scenario reminds me of Justin Bieber, who is also ESI-Se.

[Singu]

The most shocking thing about him is... his art is actually pretty good.

"We're one race... the human race... one civilization... we're a blip in the existence of the universe! And we constantly trying to pull each other down... not doing things that help each other."

I think that's pretty much EIE...

It's like the lyrics from U2's "One":

One love
One blood
One life
You got to do what you should
One life
With each other
Sisters
Brothers
One life
But we're not the same
We get to
Carry each other
Carry each other

[Olimpia]

Hm, looks like every Sx/So Ethical will get pegged as EIE sooner or later.

First Marilyn Manson, now Kanye.

[Singu]

Hm, looks like every Sx/So Ethical will get pegged as EIE sooner or later.

First Marilyn Manson, now Kanye.

Ok, but you'll have to consider some other things. Gamma tend to be more individualists and they act like lone wolves, doing whatever they personally want to do. They tend to resent having to be obliged or tied to something, and hence the complex of "Tied Hands".

[Olimpia]

Ok, but you'll have to consider some other things. Gamma tend to be more individualists and they act like lone wolves, doing whatever they personally want to do. They tend to resent having to be obliged or tied to something, and hence the complex of "Tied Hands".

That just sounds like Sp/Sx to me...

[flames]

Hm, looks like every Sx/So Ethical will get pegged as EIE sooner or later.

First Marilyn Manson, now Kanye.

So was I lol

[Singu]

That just sounds like Sp/Sx to me...

Saying things like "We're one race! We have to help each other out!" sounds like Aristocracy to me.

and Marilyn Manson is clearly an EIE.

This is stereotypically EIE:

[Olimpia]

The thing is, the Social instinct is going to make everyone come across as more "Aristocratic", even if they are from a Democratic Quadra.
It is the nature of the Social instinct. Whereas people who are SO blindspot will seem less "Aristocratic", even if they are from an Aristocratic Quadra.

Apparently, that specific dichotomy is somewhat problematic because its expression can be obscured by the Social instinct's positioning in someone's stacking.

[Singu]

The thing is, the Social instinct is going to make everyone come across as more "Aristocratic", even if they are from a Democratic Quadra.
It is the nature of the Social instinct. Whereas people who are SO blindspot will seem less "Aristocratic", even if they are from an Aristocratic Quadra.

Apparently, that specific dichotomy is somewhat problematic because its expression can be obscured by the Social instinct's positioning in someone's stacking.

You don't hear Oprah saying something like that, but you will hear Martin Luther King saying something like it.



When asked Oprah on the Nature of Humanity, she only says something about duality, and bringing more light into existence. She doesn't try to mobilize a group of people into taking collective action, for instance.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Kanye West isn't narcissistic to me in a makes me angry way, or intrigues me way- or turns me on way. He's narcissistic to me in the boring way. The worst possible way to be. =(

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

FWIW, I really respect Oprah. She came out of poverty and really made something of herself and it is admirable. I just kinda wish she was more cooler and Beta-like the way she was in the early 90s or something. She allowed ppl to disagree with her instead of just wanting middle class mommy minions. Now she's just on this constant spiritual high crap. It's so one-dimensional and uninspiring, the opposite of what's intended. I don't get it- she's going to die like everybody else. Comes off as narcissistic, when I know she can do better than that. Come into the [real light], Oprah!

[wacey]

Why not?

Are you saying introverted Gammas won't ever say stupid things or go on stage?

I don't type someone according to such stereotypes only.
I look at what kind of functional order the person seems to possess and express.
If you don't agree with me there, that's fine.

P.S: That scenario reminds me of Justin Bieber, who is also ESI-Se.

I sometimes type by stereotypes I admit. It's just quick and cursory but at this point and time I'm all right with that.

With Fi its like you know what would freak people out and also how humiliating and sad would be for that country signer getting her grammy and you would be totally mortified by the idea of being such a asshat for no good reason other than your own selfish ego needing attention, so that might make you think twice before even trying it.

So I'm assuming you would have a ESI, the moral crusader, be somewhat cautious, amoung other feelings, at the thought of stealing somebodies moment.

Although as you are implying I think, its not type related ultimately.

[niffer]

He's somewhere on the EIE-ILI continuum imo (which yes kind of exists because social progress rings and a shared form of cognition).

I'm leaning EIE at this point. WSS also types him as EIE.

[Bertrand]

I sometimes type by stereotypes I admit. It's just quick and cursory but at this point and time I'm all right with that.

With Fi its like you know what would freak people out and also how humiliating and sad would be for that country signer getting her grammy and you would be totally mortified by the idea of being such a asshat for no good reason other than your own selfish ego needing attention, so that might make you think twice before even trying it.

So I'm assuming you would have a ESI, the moral crusader, be somewhat cautious, amoung other feelings, at the thought of stealing somebodies moment.

Although as you are implying I think, its not type related ultimately.

sometimes Fi doesn't give a fuck how it makes others feel, because reasons... honestly I fully expect and kind of like making people I don't like feel bad because they should feel bad

there's also the fact that I'm sure all the big players know the whole thing is a game and don't take it that seriously, they only pretend to while people are watching because that's part of the performance

[niffer]

sometimes Fi doesn't give a fuck how it makes others feel, because reasons... honestly I fully expect and kind of like making people I don't like feel bad because they should feel bad

there's also the fact that I'm sure all the big players know the whole thing is a game and don't take it that seriously, they only pretend to while people are watching because that's part of the performance

I relate, except that I'm kind of abrasive myself in presentation so it's sort of impossible for me to make other people feel guilty I think, even if I'm trying to. They just think I'm being mean and run away usually. At most I just make them feel defensive, and sometimes stupid or foolish. I'd like to be able to enforce morals because, well people can't have proper relationships without them. But most people hearing that from me would laugh in my face and "remind" me of how much of an ass I am and that I shouldn't hope for that.

[wacey]

sometimes Fi doesn't give a fuck how it makes others feel, because reasons... honestly I fully expect and kind of like making people I don't like feel bad because they should feel bad

there's also the fact that I'm sure all the big players know the whole thing is a game and don't take it that seriously, they only pretend to while people are watching because that's part of the performance

Lol ok bud its not a big deal to me.

with Fi not caring about what others think (I'm assuming in a dynamic Fe field here), this is true from my understanding and during discussions with others in the topic. This is kinda common knowledge around here (not altogether convinced myself but whatever)