Differences between EII-INFj and IEE-ENFp

[Suz]

I see what you're trying to say and it just isn't true. Ne types are just as likely to share their ideas and opportunities as keep them to themselves, and they get excited easily and motivated into action by their ideas. Fi types are concerned with carefully cultivating a select few relationships, choosing words and actions carefully. This gives them the appearance of being reserved, and they become more open and "extraverted" only around the few people they are comfortable with.

I never said Ne doesn't share the ideas. But to come up with ideas requires one to think, so it's going to be an intermittent sort of sharing.

I disagree that FiNe types choose words and actions as carefully as NeFi types. Ne types can see possible consequences of what they say and do better than Fi-types. So while Fi-types may choose words and actions carefully, NeFi types will choose words and actions even MORE carefully.

I think both IEE and EII are reserved with people they dont feel comfortable with, and become more extraverted around those they are comfortable with.

[yeves]

Some observations:

EII's tend to be more supportive and respond positively to other's initiative. IEE's are often indifferent to other's initiative (because they want to be the first to take initiative).

IEE's fear boredom and are constantly on the lookout for new objects (sources of information, people, situations) to satisfy their curiosity. You can recognize this trait by the fact that they rarely get completedly absorbed in any situation; their eye movements betray this -- scanning the room they're in instead of looking only at the people they're talking to. Also, they tend to jump in and out of conversation, entering when something catches their interest and then dropping out to reflect on something.

EII's are steadier in social situations and seem to get more absorbed in communication. They have less active eye movements and focus on listening carefully and sticking to the topic. They don't usually drop in and out like IEE's do, but are able to maintain a steady conversation with less fluctuation for a long time.

This is a very good observation imo. One way I could tell that my friend is IEE rather than EII is by noticing that she's not as attentive as "sincere" types are described.


IEEs defend their opinions with more energy in short bursts until they move on to something else.
EIIs are subtle but persistent and purposeful in their beliefs.

[Airman]

Nice notice of some of the differences there too imo ime.

[Beautiful sky]

My IEE friend talks more than I do. She's way more fashionable and tastefully dressed than I am. She's prettier…All of my IEE friends are gorgeous. I'm not that pretty. I dress like I NEED to be covered up. I don't like to stand out so I wear what's in my avatar (muted tones, farmer lady clothes) minus the hat. Hat is for super hot days. My IEE friends are better at designing a place fast and are better at identifying the necessitates. I don't know what to do with objects and coordinating tones even if someone put a gun to my head (this is because I'm built to support a dual who is great at designing and thus I don't compete). I think they are as sensitive and kind as I am. They are as smart as I am but their smarts is visible due to their extraverted nature as often they are speaking about the things they know while I'm more choosy with when I say what as my psyche is geared towards taking things in and listening to support. @Eliza Thomason

I need a lot of sensory support. I get that from my ESE and LSE relations. For example I get my sister who picks out a skimpy white dress and my bf who picks out this pretty bright pink sweater.

[Eliza Thomason]

My IEE friend talks more than I do. .

With my EII sis-in-law this is true in some situations. I am certainly more bold when we are out and about. I'll just do/say a thing for her if she is hesitant. Once we were at a huge greenhouse in the spring, buying plants for our homes. She had very carefully chosen some hanging basket and it was for a particular spot but it was the last one left of this type of lovely flower, in this huge green house filled with plants, and she was so pleased with her choice, and with her eye for finding the last one, too. After wandering off for my plants I came back and it was gone from her cart. She told me this other woman took it from her cart when she walked away to talk to her young ones. I know she is precise and sure on things, too. She showed me, across the expanse, the women disappearing into the indoor part with her plant, and with her husband and kids. So I followed her! She picked up speed, too, disappearing with her family down an aisle. I caught up, and said, "Excuse me, you have my friends plant. It was the last one and it was in her cart" And I took it and brought it back to my EII sis-in-law. I don't know what came over me. I just suddenly get this sense of injustice, and I want to act now, to fix it. In other situations I am restricted and wary to speak up, but in this, the boldness just takes over.

But when we are at her house, I listen way more and she talks way more. She likes to tell a story from very beginning to very end with all the details (she has an elephants's memory). And I listen.

She's way more fashionable and tastefully dressed than I am. She's prettier…All of my IEE friends are gorgeous. I'm not that pretty. I dress like I NEED to be covered up. I don't like to stand out so I wear what's in my avatar (muted tones, farmer lady clothes) minus the hat. Hat is for super hot days.

Aw, thats nice to say of IEEs. I don't consider myself gorgeous but capable of bringing out my best. But you are gorgeous yourself. I don't dress to stand out (more a SEE trait, or ESE, in my experience). But I can put a good outfit together when I try. But usually I just want to be comfortable.

My IEE friends are better at designing a place fast and are better at identifying the necessitates. I don't know what to do with objects and coordinating tones even if someone put a gun to my head (this is because I'm built to support a dual who is great at designing and thus I don't compete).

I do design well. I like to help others design. EII have a good sense for it, but also they welcome my help with it, which I do like to give (when asked).

I think they are as sensitive and kind as I am. They are as smart as I am but their smarts is visible due to their extraverted nature as often they are speaking about the things they know while I'm more choosy with when I say what as my psyche is geared towards taking things in and listening to support.

Yes, sometimes I have been mistaken for being smarter than I am. I's in general often have a lot of smarts that others just don't see.

[Beautiful sky]

Some observations:

EII's tend to be more supportive and respond positively to other's initiative. IEE's are often indifferent to other's initiative (because they want to be the first to take initiative).

IEE's fear boredom and are constantly on the lookout for new objects (sources of information, people, situations) to satisfy their curiosity. You can recognize this trait by the fact that they rarely get completedly absorbed in any situation; their eye movements betray this -- scanning the room they're in instead of looking only at the people they're talking to. Also, they tend to jump in and out of conversation, entering when something catches their interest and then dropping out to reflect on something.

EII's are steadier in social situations and seem to get more absorbed in communication. They have less active eye movements and focus on listening carefully and sticking to the topic. They don't usually drop in and out like IEE's do, but are able to maintain a steady conversation with less fluctuation for a long time.

Yes I tend to talk less and listen more giving moral support

[Suz]

Some observations:

IEE's fear boredom and are constantly on the lookout for new objects (sources of information, people, situations) to satisfy their curiosity. You can recognize this trait by the fact that they rarely get completedly absorbed in any situation; their eye movements betray this -- scanning the room they're in instead of looking only at the people they're talking to.

Ive known ppl who do this, and i think its extremely rude. I hopevits not an iee thing....

[Suz]

Omgoodness is this your ej temperament showing?

Maybe.... I dont make it known to them in the moment, but it makes me feel like they would rather be elsewhere and are just talking to me for show. If im talking and they are doing it, then i feel they arent really listening.

[Emmym]

With my EII sis-in-law this is true in some situations. I am certainly more bold when we are out and about. I'll just do/say a thing for her if she is hesitant. Once we were at a huge greenhouse in the spring, buying plants for our homes. She had very carefully chosen some hanging basket and it was for a particular spot but it was the last one left of this type of lovely flower, in this huge green house filled with plants, and she was so pleased with her choice, and with her eye for finding the last one, too. After wandering off for my plants I came back and it was gone from her cart. She told me this other woman took it from her cart when she walked away to talk to her young ones. I know she is precise and sure on things, too. She showed me, across the expanse, the women disappearing into the indoor part with her plant, and with her husband and kids. So I followed her! She picked up speed, too, disappearing with her family down an aisle. I caught up, and said, "Excuse me, you have my friends plant. It was the last one and it was in her cart" And I took it and brought it back to my EII sis-in-law. I don't know what came over me. I just suddenly get this sense of injustice, and I want to act now, to fix it. In other situations I am restricted and wary to speak up, but in this, the boldness just takes over.

But when we are at her house, I listen way more and she talks way more. She likes to tell a story from very beginning to very end with all the details (she has an elephants's memory). And I listen.

So true. I talk soooo much more than my IEE bestie sometimes when it's just us. But when we're in "her" space or others are around, I can be embarrassingly quiet, lol. People just assume I must be pissed off or something.

[Emmym]

I think EIIs can be more direct than IEEs usually are. I told my IEE friend that it's like she and other IEEs constantly avoid saying anything that could potentially be offensive to any imaginary SLIs in the room. Usually, if IEEs say anything blunt or negative, they take it back afterwards. Being Ne-creative and Fi-valuing can make us come across as bitchy when we're not satisfied with the way things are, because we see how they could be changed and feel like no one "cares" enough to do anything. This might also be a mindset rationals have in general.

EIIs are more forgiving of mistakes and Te illiteracy but far less forgiving of a lapse in ethics and can respond fiercely, whereas I think intentions matter far more than actions to IEEs. EIIs have a blindspot that includes themselves and people in their special favor when it comes to ethical missteps lol. We can be extremely passive aggressive and shit at evaluating ourselves. IEEs don't strike me as passive aggressive, but I have seen them be actually aggressive, lol.

[Eliza Thomason]

I think EIIs can be more direct than IEEs usually are. I told my IEE friend that it's like she and other IEEs constantly avoid saying anything that could potentially be offensive to any imaginary SLIs in the room. Usually, if IEEs say anything blunt or negative, they take it back afterwards. Being Ne-creative and Fi-valuing can make us come across as bitchy when we're not satisfied with the way things are, because we see how they could be changed and feel like no one "cares" enough to do anything. This might also be a mindset rationals have in general.

EIIs are more forgiving of mistakes and Te illiteracy but far less forgiving of a lapse in ethics and can respond fiercely, whereas I think intentions matter far more than actions to IEEs. This isn't a bad thing, though, really, because EIIs have a blindspot that includes themselves and people in their special favor when it comes to ethical missteps lol. Don't make us concentrate too long on anything painful about ourselves, basically. We can be extremely passive aggressive and shit at evaluating ourselves. IEEs don't strike me as passive aggressive, but I have seen them be actually aggressive, lol.

Wow, this is absolutely true. Both of what you said about IEEs and the EIIs. Like, yes, they are forgiving of mistakes and Te illiteracy but not so much forgiving of ethical mistakes, and yes - they do have a blindspot in the people they love.

And yes, so true, intentions matter more than actions to IEEs. That's me and I think its a type thing.

And you are so on target with EIIs that I feel quite sure of your self typing. (I rarely get an immediate "confirm" in my mind reading so very few of someone's posts but in this case I do).

And yes, we are not passive aggressive and EIIs can be - at least the EII I know the best can be (she tells me the whole story of her passive aggressive action. And I marvel at its cleverness, and totally understand the motivation, but I would NEVER!).. Once, during divorce/custody battle, the court-ordered psychologist at first meeting suggested I was passive-aggressive with my husband (who'd probably suggested it to him). I completely lost respect for him making such an assumption on no evidence whatsoever, and assured him I have plenty of faults at coping but that was not one of them. As to aggression - an injustice or a clear and careless breaking of a valued principle can make me act very assertively... and this can be sudden and I can act with great surety and confidence and strength - even though in so many other situations I am unsure and reticent, like when I am so careful not to offend anyone...

________

P.S. It is really helpful that you said this: "Don't make us concentrate too long on anything painful about ourselves, basically. We can be extremely passive aggressive and shit at evaluating ourselves." Because I have a new EII friend here, an old friend of my husband, whom we pay to watch my Mom when we go to Mass, who really needs correction in some areas. She makes really, really FOOLISH financial decisions. She is like a target for people who look for people to rip off, because she is gullible and listens to their pitches and buys them. But she does not listen to the people who care about her - (who sacrifice to unselfishly help her in all matters) and who give GOOD, sound advice -- people who have nothing to gain, and only want to help her... I am so astounded by some of these happenings and so stunned when she seems to not hear carefully-put important advice... but it must be what you said...

[Emmym]

Wow, this is absolutely true. Both of what you said about IEEs and the EIIs. Like, yes, they aer forgiving of mistakes and Te illiteracy but not so much in ethics, and yes they do have a blindspot in the people they love. And yes, so true, intentions matter more than actions to IEEs. That's me and I think its a type thing. And you are so on target with EIIs that I feel quite sure of your self typing. (I rarely get an immedite "confirm" in my mind reading so very few of someone's posts but in this case I do).

And yes, we are not passive aggressive and EIIs can be - at least the EII I know the best can be (she tells me the whole story of her passive aggressive action. And I marvel at its cleverness, and understand the motivation, but I would NEVER).. Once during divorce custody time the court-ordered psychologist at first meeting suggested I was passive-aggressive with my husband (who'd probably suggested it to him). I completely lost respect for him making such an assumption on no evidence whatsoever, and assured him I have plenty of faults at coping but that was not one of them.. but an injustice or a clear and careless breaking of a principle or value can make me act very assertively...

________

P.S. It is really helpful that you said this: "Don't make us concentrate too long on anything painful about ourselves, basically. We can be extremely passive aggressive and shit at evaluating ourselves." Because I have a new EII friend here, an old friend of my husband, whom we pay to watch my Mom when we go to Mass, who really needs correction in some areas. She makes really, really FOOLISH financial decisions. She is like a target for people who look for people to rip off, because she is gullible and listens to their pitches and buys them. But she does not listen to the people who care about her - (who sacrifice to unselfishly help her in all matters) and who give GOOD, sound advice -- people who have nothing to gain, and only want to help her... I am so astounded by some of these happenings and so stunned when she seems to not hear carefully-put important advice... but it must be what you said...

Thanks so much! That means a lot. When I first got into typology I typed as INTP, ISTP, and INFJ in Myers-Briggs, but after hanging around actual INTPs IRL and online I knew I wasn't one. Ventured onto the INTP forum and though I got along with INTPs, I just didn't really fit in there and got chewed out a few times for the kinds of dumb questions I would ask in threads, lol. Fi-dom was actually the last thing I imagined I would be, but after years of self-study and reflection, it made total sense. It explained all the problems I've had communicating with betas in the past, why meeting gamma people toward the end of my teens caused my teen "rebellion" against my alpha mom, and... well, I'll spare you my life story, lol. I use a LOT of Fe though so that can be confusing, but I feel like the Fe is just a lure, in a way, to make people comfortable while I wiggle closer to them on an intimate level, lmfao. I won't 100% rule out IEI for myself, but I've pretty much 95% ruled it out.

Also, I'm so sorry about your situation. If you ever want to talk more about it, I actually have a fair amount to say and would be happy to via PM. (hugs)

[Eliza Thomason]

Thanks so much! That means a lot. When I first got into typology I typed as INTP, ISTP, and INFJ in Myers-Briggs, but after hanging around actual INTPs IRL and online I knew I wasn't one. Ventured onto the INTP forum and though I got along with INTPs, I just didn't really fit in there and got chewed out a few times for the kinds of dumb questions I would ask in threads, lol. Fi-dom was actually the last thing I imagined I would be, but after years of self-study and reflection, it made total sense. It explained all the problems I've had communicating with betas in the past, why meeting gamma people toward the end of my teens caused my teen "rebellion" against my alpha mom, and... well, I'll spare you my life story, lol. I use a LOT of Fe though so that can be confusing, but I feel like the Fe is just a lure, in a way, to make people comfortable while I wiggle closer to them on an intimate level, lmfao. I won't 100% rule out IEI for myself, but I've pretty much 95% ruled it out.

Also, I'm so sorry about your situation. If you ever want to talk more about it, I actually have a fair amount to say and would be happy to via PM. (hugs)

Aw, thanks. The divorce custody battle was about ten years ago, I don't even care exactly how long ago, thank God. And God has completely healed my heart and memories since (it was sudden at a ministry and complete and it stuck). Best of all God has "given me back the years the locust had eaten" in my Dual husband of 1 and a half years. (I met him the day after the healing, and I did NOT want to fall in love). I was so shocked at myself when I fell for him, and in my search for more understanding I stumbled upon Socionics, and knowing our MBTI types (I'd been an avid student of it some years; read a lot of books on it) I looked up our relationship type and found out what a Dual is - and then I understood the key to the "why" for the inexplicable pull between us....

The next best thing after relationship types in Socionics is Model A, then Reinins... IMO, anyway...

Well, I think you are right on target with the EII typing.

[Beautiful sky]

Hum

I’m calm and steady
IEE fidget more move more. I think they look at more things I look within myself and maybe focus on a friend or something near me