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Thread: Socionneagram Cocktails

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    Ezra's Avatar
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    Default Socionneagram Cocktails

    Because Enneagram is less complex than socionics, I had an idea today, which shows that some of the socionics types are described in such a way that they work better as combos of different Enneagram types than the types on their own.

    So you have your obvious links:

    ESE - 2
    ILE - 7
    IEI - 4
    ILI - 5

    But then I've thought about it and drawn some more conclusions.

    SEI - Seven and Nine (but primarily Nine IMO). Nine is obvious, but they often have the well-being of a Seven.

    LII - a strange combo of Five and Nine, with a hint of One and perhaps Six (but what type doesn't have a hint of Six in it). I've seen some Nine LIIs, which I was surprised about, but then it does make sense. Through lack of Se, they ruminate. They narcotise. They procrastinate etc. LIIs have the intellect of a Five, or a 6w5, but then at the same time, given that they are IJ, this can make them seem Oneish (for example, look at LII Kant, who was the most regimented man ever).

    EIE - mainly Three, but with hints of One (striving to be good and make a change, probably due to their being NF) and Six. They are too doubting of themselves to be completely Three-like, which is what Six accounts for.

    LSI - a combination of One and Eight, with a hint of Six (more accurately 6w5). They have the drive of the Eight, the perfection of the One, and the rigidity of a routine-focused Six. At the same time, they lack the outwardly forceful nature of the Eight, and often the doubts and worries of the Six simply don't exist; that is, they're too confident.

    SLE - a strange combo of Three and Eight, with a hint of Seven. They have the mindset of the Seven, which can switch from one mode of thinking to another very easily. They have the adaptability of the Three or Seven, and many of them have the suaveness of the Three, which seems totally uncharacteristic of an Eight. However, they can play rough and tumble like an Eight, and have the obvious outwardly-directed strength and force of an Eight, as well as having the focus of a Three or Eight totally unlike a Seven.

    LIE - a combination of Three, Six and Eight with a hint of One. One of the most 'in bits' types in the socion, IMO. Essentially, LIEs have the drive and often diplomacy of the Three, sometimes with the motivations of an Eight; but sometimes also with the superficial motivations of a Three (to succeed). At the same time, their doubts and worries can't really be attributed to Three or Eight, but fit rather nicely with a Six. They also have some one habits, including striving for perfection in all they do (which could alternatively be explained by the Three aspects in them).

    ESI - One/Six/Eight elements. They have the moral focus and temperament of a One, with some of the behaviour of a Six seen in the LSI. In fact, much like the LSI, in that they often have the confidence and drive of an Eight. However, you'd probably expect more Ones to identify with ESI > LSI due to the whole moral thing. LSIs don't do something bad because it's not in their system; ESIs refrain from doing something bad simply because it's wrong - a way of thinking far more in line with the One mindset.

    SEE - Three, Seven and Eight. Probably more suave than the SLE, and so less Eight-like, they have a social understanding and skills of a Three/Seven playboy individual which are very rare in the Eight. At the same time, they have more of the drive of an Eight, and certainly more confidence (since Eights are more confident internally than Threes or Sevens).

    LSE - another 'bits of lots of types' type; a really weird combo of One, Two, Three, Eight and Nine. The Nine elements are inherent in all Deltas; probably because Si valuing is so typically a Nine thing, or perhaps vice versa. They have the striving for perfection element, the routine, the innate goodness etc. of the One, the drive of the Three (or perhaps Three and Eight combined, and the independence of the Eight. The Two comes from their being a caregiver.

    SLI - a combination of Five and Nine. They have the energy of the Nine, and, again the aspects of a Nine that all Deltas have, but the emotional detachment and the Te creative of a Five.

    IEE - a combination of Six and Seven, with perhaps a small dash of Nine. Like a Seven in every basic respect, but without the emotional detachment. On the contrary, the IEE acts more like a Six warming to others, although this probably stems more from a Nine's motivation of emotional harmony rather than the anxiety of the Six.

    EII - a combination of One and Nine. Has the calm and serenity of a Nine, but the temperament (which is actually quite opposed to Nine) and the morality - without the preachiness (probably found more likely in an ESI) - of a One.

    Any questions, feel free to ask.

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    I've been waiting for you Satan's Avatar
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    so what this is really saying is that the models aren't accurate.

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    No model can be completely accurate. Practicality has a say in everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    LSE - another 'bits of lots of types' type; a really weird combo of One, Two, Three, Eight and Nine. The Nine elements are inherent in all Deltas; probably because Si valuing is so typically a Nine thing, or perhaps vice versa. They have the striving for perfection element, the routine, the innate goodness etc. of the One, the drive of the Three (or perhaps Three and Eight combined, and the independence of the Eight. The Two comes from their being a caregiver.

    SLI - a combination of Five and Nine. They have the energy of the Nine, and, again the aspects of a Nine that all Deltas have, but the emotional detachment and the Te creative of a Five.

    IEE - a combination of Six and Seven, with perhaps a small dash of Nine. Like a Seven in every basic respect, but without the emotional detachment. On the contrary, the IEE acts more like a Six warming to others, although this probably stems more from a Nine's motivation of emotional harmony rather than the anxiety of the Six.

    EII - a combination of One and Nine. Has the calm and serenity of a Nine, but the temperament (which is actually quite opposed to Nine) and the morality - without the preachiness (probably found more likely in an ESI) - of a One.
    I've only looked at delta ones, but, I see what you mean and i generally agree with all of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pezra View Post
    SEE - Three, Seven and Eight. Probably more suave than the SLE, and so less Eight-like, they have a social understanding and skills of a Three/Seven playboy individual which are very rare in the Eight. At the same time, they have more of the drive of an Eight, and certainly more confidence (since Eights are more confident internally than Threes or Sevens).
    I think that SEE can be 2 too. I'm 2w3. Twos are open and sociable. 3 wings gives me targets and determination to get them(3 wings is really strong in fact, and when I'm angry connection with 8 causes that I'm impulsive and sometimes too straightforward).

    Have a look there: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/FO...TOPIC_ID=22712

    In fact I don't like mixing enneagram and socionics... because enneagram is about our motivations and socionics is about data processing from world. For me is a BIG DIFFERENCE.
    Last edited by Olinda; 10-06-2009 at 06:12 AM.
    I'm SEE. 2w3.

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    Azeroffs's Avatar
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    Yeah it's kinda ridiculous to say that some socionics types can't be some e-types. E-types are how we cope with anger/shame/anxiety and all types feel those things, though admittedly in varying degrees.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    I think LII profiles are more 5 and 1, and less 9. They seem to be modeled after Kant and Robespierre, both ones (I think), and Descartes, a five. 9 can be inferred from polr, but that's about it.
    The saddest ESFj

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    Agreed with mimosa and fear.

    Also I cannot see 7 for SEI and 4 is a common enne type for them. I know you, Ezra, have disagreed with this in the past.

    Thats the one i had the biggest problem with, but all the others are off too, sorry.
    The end is nigh

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    Ezra's Avatar
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    Yeah, it's nice to see some reasoning from each of you to back up your disagreements.

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    Pretend like it's the weekend Banana Pancakes's Avatar
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    I don't think think it's possible to correlate these 100%, even if you blend them.
    ILE-Ti
    6w7 sx/sp (low level of confidence)

  11. #11
    Creepy-male

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    Quote Originally Posted by Banana Pancakes View Post
    I don't think think it's possible to correlate these 100%, even if you blend them.
    Well strictly speaking its possible...

    if you believe its possible for a person to have an enneagram type

    and you believe its possible for a person to have a socionics type

    then you've already more or less proved its possible since the identity of a person will remain constant

    if they were not correlated you would only be able to describe a person as a enneagram type OR a socionics type

    you would not be able to describe a person as BOTH or less you'de be indirectly linking the two models

    being brutually logical, you'de have to choose between one of these two assertions =>
    1) The enneagram and socionics share a correlation
    or
    2) A person can't have an enneagram type if they have a socionics type and vice versa

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I personally believe the 1st assertion that they are correlated.... I think of it like socionics is one basis and enneagram is another basis. What is being developed here is the transformation from one basis to another.

    However I think that "transformation" is a difficult one to understand because the fundamental assumptions of both models are different.

    For example.... Enneagram has a triad with Head, Heart, and Instinct. It would make sense that Head types would have Dominant Thinking Jungian Functions in Socionics. Furthermore it would make sense that Heart types would have Dominant Feeling Jungian Functions in Socionics. What would be confusing is marking the Instinctual Types as having a particular Jungian Function.

    This is why its hard to "transformation" Enneagram into Socionics and vice versa. Simply because the fundamental assumptions are so different. In order to have a competent "transformation" between the basis' you'de have to know how the two basis' relate to each other.

    You'de have to know the role of Jungian Functions in each of the enneagram types.

    It sounds simple, but its daunting. Take a type like an 8.... is it's dominant function thinking or feeling??? At first one might be tempted to say its feeling because 8's don't resist their feelings of anger but instead act it out and embrace them (hopefully productively). However 8's also are known to become stiff, impenetrable, and tough when resolute towards something, resisting their feelings and staying focused on the goal... more in line with a thinking jungian function or a thinker dictomy.

    This paradox brings about problems, but it can be easily solved by considering 8's use feeling functions with their anger and certain other feelings, but they also use thinking functions in separate circumstances.

    This is hard to translate in Socionics because Model A is all about some functions being dominant and other weaker.... Enneagram is not about that, but more about the specifics of how functions come out in circumstances.

    If you really wanted to have a foolproof correlation you'de have to peel back Socionics and the Enneagram to a deeper layer of understanding that is cumbersome to deal with at best....

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In short, I think they correlate, but in a very complicated way... so I think its simpler to just let them live in their own lands. You're better off knowing when to think in Enneagram and when to think in Socionics, rather than trying to translate between the two, in my opinoin.

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Yeah, it's nice to see some reasoning from each of you to back up your disagreements.
    aww ur welcome!

    I'd try to explain, but you'd disagree with my premises anyways and also I'm sooooo lazy.

    so really im just here to take up bandwidth.

    does bandwidth work like that?

    wikipedia is ambigous.
    The end is nigh

  13. #13
    Creepy-male

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    aww ur welcome!

    I'd try to explain, but you'd disagree with my premises anyways and also I'm sooooo lazy.

    so really im just here to take up bandwidth.

    does bandwidth work like that?

    wikipedia is ambigous.
    awwwww hooooowwwww swwweeeeettttttttttttttttttt!

    lol (j/k)

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