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Thread: Berserk (Anime)

  1. #41
    RBRS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Are you saying that an artist uses a character’s appearance to tell us something about their character?

    Wouldn’t that mean that appearance and character are related in a non-random way?
    In a fictional work yes, but narrative devices might be different from real life appeareances, furthermore if someone is not "playing" a specific aesthetic it's unreasonable to see appeareance matters as determinant for personality (or impersonation).

    If some artist is setting predefined boundaries for types of people and within those boundaries he observes certain physical traits, and then when trying to build up his characters he uses these type categories, and if we have a similar frame for reference to see these categories, then it would be "somewhat justified" to use VI on fiction. Then you run into the impossibility to verify if the type categories are correct definitions of "types" or the physical trait correlations are accidental or imprecise for example. It's not a weird occurrence that the experience with people is different depending on the person.

    If you take a look at VI you'll also notice different socionist work with very different traits for type, sometimes even contradictory, and these are all within the same typology
    The problems and the lack of validity of VI are more pronounced than they seem. Socionics itself is vague and different interpretations of it contradict each other daily.

    Although I recognize there's a bit of validity on VI and similar people sometimes share physical traits and mannerisms, I think it's unreliable for definitive typings.
    If I'm not answering you, I'm either procrastinating a response, or I've judged the conversation as fruitless/already settled prior to the debate for me.

  2. #42
    The Crucified Space Sheriff godslave's Avatar
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    I'm not a fan of VI, but I have to admit that some physical traits can reveal some of our temperaments traits. Some Artists do it better than other though :

     

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by godslave View Post
    You can VI some characters of that Anime if you want !

    This video is awesome beyond words. Based on this video, I will try to type all the characters:


    Guts - SLE-Ti
    Judeau - EII-Ne
    Pippin - ESE-Fe
    Corkus - SLI-Te
    Rickert - SEI-Si
    Princess Charlotte - SEI-Fe
    Farnesse de Vandimion - LII-Ti 1w2
    Serpico - ILI-Te
    Mozgus - SLE-Se
    Luca - SLI-Te
    Schierke - IEE-Fi
    Isidro - EIE-Fe
    Isma - SEI-Si
    Roderick of Schtauffen - LSE-Si
    Sonia - IEI-Fe
    Locus - ESI
    Irvine - ILE-Ti
    Grunbeld - SLI-Si
    Slan - EIE-Ni
    Nosferatu Zodd - ILE-Ne
    Moonlight Boy - EII
    Caska - SEE
    Griffith - IEE-Ne (!!!!)
    Last edited by lavos; 09-13-2022 at 07:09 PM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBRS View Post
    In a fictional work yes, but narrative devices might be different from real life appeareances, furthermore if someone is not "playing" a specific aesthetic it's unreasonable to see appeareance matters as determinant for personality (or impersonation).

    If some artist is setting predefined boundaries for types of people and within those boundaries he observes certain physical traits, and then when trying to build up his characters he uses these type categories, and if we have a similar frame for reference to see these categories, then it would be "somewhat justified" to use VI on fiction. Then you run into the impossibility to verify if the type categories are correct definitions of "types" or the physical trait correlations are accidental or imprecise for example. It's not a weird occurrence that the experience with people is different depending on the person.

    If you take a look at VI you'll also notice different socionist work with very different traits for type, sometimes even contradictory, and these are all within the same typology
    The problems and the lack of validity of VI are more pronounced than they seem. Socionics itself is vague and different interpretations of it contradict each other daily.

    Although I recognize there's a bit of validity on VI and similar people sometimes share physical traits and mannerisms, I think it's unreliable for definitive typings.
    When a writer crafts a character, they subconciously imprint a valid (even according to socionics) structure on the character. If they're well written, that is; like the characters of Berserk. Socionics/enneagram types are immanent archetypes. This reflects on their VI, which also results as valid.

  5. #45
    RBRS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lavos View Post
    When a writer crafts a character, they subconciously imprint a valid (even according to socionics) structure on the character. If they're well written, that is; like the characters of Berserk. Socionics/enneagram types are immanent archetypes. This reflects on their VI, which also results as valid.
    That is if you take TIM as archetypal. I don't take TIM as archetypal, but as a boundary of metrics of attention/construction of certain "modes of information" essentially a "biological" kaleidoscope through which your eyes are "painting" a specific situation, all organized through dichotomical metrics in the Model A.

    The physical traits or even behavioral/personality characteristics, in my book, are an indirect, casual, colloquial observation of how this information processing then affects other aspects of the psyche.

    Enneagram seems to me like there's some personality tendency (non-socionics, rather neurological, hormonal, educational reasons) that predetermine a person to react to certain traumatic or significant experiences building up behaviors and coping mechanisms. These are varied but because of convergency of "repetitive" genetic and cultural tendencies some specific complexes tend to repeat more than others and these are then categorized as enneatypes.

    Inmanent essences are rather the form and noumenal cause for the natural object's composition as well as for the moving force for the laws through which these interact, which we just observe repeat and define as scientific laws. Archetypes are entities from the unconscious psyche, either individual or collective.
    If I'm not answering you, I'm either procrastinating a response, or I've judged the conversation as fruitless/already settled prior to the debate for me.

  6. #46
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    Anybody wants to try to type them in enneagram using the video?

     


    My attempt:

    Guts - 9w1 sp/so
    Judeau - 6w7 so/sx
    Pippin - 6w7 sp/sx
    Corkus - 6w7 sp/so
    Rickert - 4w3 so/sx
    Princess Charlotte - 2w1 so/sx
    Farnesse de Vandimion - 1w2 so/sp
    Serpico - 5w4 so/sp
    Mozgus - 8w9 so/sp
    Luca - 6w7 sx/so
    Schierke - 4w5 so/sx
    Isidro - 7w8 sx/sp
    Isma - 9w1 so/sx
    Roderick of Schtauffen - 7w8 so/sx
    Sonia - 9w8 so/sp
    Locus - 1w9 sp/sx
    Irvine - 5w4 sp/sx
    Grunbeld - 8w7 sp/sx
    Slan - 3w4 sx/so
    Nosferatu Zodd - 9w8 sp/sx
    Moonlight Boy - 2w3 sp/so
    Caska - 6w5 sp/so
    Griffith - 3w4 so/sx
    Last edited by lavos; 09-01-2022 at 01:51 AM.

  7. #47
    Chthonic Daydream's Avatar
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    Griffith did nothing wrong.
    EIE | Creative | 4w3 sx/so

    "хотите —
    буду безукоризненно нежный,
    не мужчина, а — облако в штанах!"

  8. #48
    Chthonic Daydream's Avatar
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    I think something is wrong with me, I just had a post coital tristesse moment and all I could think of was Guts.
    EIE | Creative | 4w3 sx/so

    "хотите —
    буду безукоризненно нежный,
    не мужчина, а — облако в штанах!"

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