The "Normal" Type

[Raver]

In my opinion, those are the two types least likely to be interested in socionics. ESFp even less than ESTjs.

The average ESFp would not be inclined to (1) spend much time discussing ideas on an internet forum, (2) feel the need to, or have interest in, understanding what makes other types tick, or how interpersonal relationships work - they tend to think that they've already figured it all out, and that types very different from themselves are simply not "normal".

I think that the idea that an INTj - for instance - might be as legitimate a type as themselves would be very difficult for them to grasp. Especially as there probably are far more ESFps around than INTjs, and society is far more ESFp- than INTj-oriented.

I think the same applies to ESTjs, but to a lesser extent.

That is incredibly true and accurate about how ESFP's think and act. My best friend is ESFP and he constantly tells me to start doing acting like an ESFP and have strong so girls can be more attracted to me and I won't be seen as weird. It's actually pretty annoying, since he tends to repeat it over and over.....The fact that were so similar gives him the idea that my Ne needs to be changed into Se or I have to simply develop the Se to be strong, which is basically impossible, since it is so weak.

Expat maybe, you can go more into this subject how certain types like ESFP and ESTJ have the inherent idea that anybody that doesn't act like them needs to change into being them. That would mean INTj and INFp are the ones that are the most unique and least likely to want everyone to act like them.

[Joy]

XSXj

[tempus]

ESFps aren't exactly normal. They can actually be really quirky but they express their oddness with a certain pride and flair so no one really questions their normality.

[Expat]

That quote of mine that Y&C posted is from a thread where someone wondered why we had no regular or semi-regular ESFp (before Delta arrived) or ESTj posters, and I was musing as to why people of those types would be the least likely to spend much time here.

how certain types like ESFP and ESTJ have the inherent idea that anybody that doesn't act like them needs to change into being them. That would mean INTj and INFp are the ones that are the most unique and least likely to want everyone to act like them.

I don't think they have any such "inherent idea". From their point of view, especially ESFps', it may be an obvious conclusion.

In my opinion, someone with very strong , weak , weak and who is also of a type that seems to be very common, and for whom the social rituals and aesthetic values of western society seemed to have been "made", would have little need, and much less inclination, to accept that someone as totally different from themselves such as an INTj is anything but odd and defective.

Perhaps some people (implied, DeltaRho :wink: ) will think I'm getting into ESFp-bashing, but I'm trying to explain something I observe in all ESFps I have any contact with. All social advice and comment from them starts with the assumption that anyone not only could but should behave like an ESFp, if only they'd "give it a try", "stop being afraid " - if there is anything "inherent" about it, it's an inability to conceive that someone might legitimately have other preferences. The whole attitude is, "if you would just try it, you'd love it!".

Again, this is probably natural for people with strong , weak and , and who also feel as part of the "mainstream".

I have observed such traits in ESTjs, but to a much lesser extent. I think that in their case it's mainly the "mainstream" factor that's important.

[Olga]

I am not sure that expalantions fit to the observed phenomenon. I am also strong in and weak in and do not produce theories but I am here and do not feel as a representer of a mainstream. Is here many thinking like me? I would be happy to know them!

[Expat]

Just to clarify, I did not say, nor mean, that those functions were the reason why ESFps would feel as part of the mainstream.

What I meant is that they feel part of the mainstream in western society, and that because of that, AND their functional ordering, they are little inclined to regard types very different from themselves as "normal".

I think, and I have observed, that INFjs and ISFjs do not regard themselves as fully part of the mainstram.

[Megan]

I think, ESFP s more than any type value here and now moment and if they have to do some serious thinking they do it because they have too not because it is fun. Base function + irrationality is sheer pure animal power, tornado, the wind which blows over the ocean for the sakre of fun and excitement. They are not shallow, can be serious and very sensitive but there reasons to be here is different from other types. I suppose we just let them blow, they are good "party animals" and can be talented lawyetrs, teachers and etc (social field).

[Creepy-]

I wouldn't call ESFps "normal" by any stretch of the imagination...

They just happen to be odd in a way that doesn't seem to bother most people.

I agree with what Olga said about them.

[FDG]

Expat refers to their low tolerance of NT-ness. Which is something I have noticed too. Another thing that bothers me, is that they measure you by how good you are at the things they value; like, once I appeared in TV after winning a biking race and all the ESFps started to be my friends. Horrible and fakey.

[Smilingeyes]

Two ESFps lurk on the forum infrequently and are in complete awe of socionics as explained by the ENTjs around. My ex is also an ESFp. She's something like a psycho-historian and a sociologist and we've had pretty wonderful conversations about socionics.

[FDG]

Two ESFps lurk on the forum infrequently and are in complete awe of socionics as explained by the ENTjs around. My ex is also an ESFp. She's something like a psycho-historian and a sociologist and we've had pretty wonderful conversations about socionics.

I guess me and Expat have had bad experiences then.

[Ave]

In my experiences with ESFps they aerent actually more "normal" than others, on an objective level, but they try really hard to get social prestige and status, which includes avoiding anything which would make them weird in the eyes of others, unless of course they hang out with a group where its cool to be "different". ESFps dont really seem to admit they enjoy anything which would lower their popularity. Like my ESFp friend, who I got into playing magic: the gathering would be really obsessed about hiding this fact from girls at any price, whereas I wasnt too embarrassed about it, although I understand most girls arent interested in games, so whats the sense of talking about it? I mean he was a cool guy and Im not trying to insult him but its true he had this tendency to really misunderstand whenever someone takes in interest in something which wouldnt boost their popularity. This was in his "public" behavior. In his private behavior he was more open to anything weird than anyone I've ever met.

ESFjs are similar if you ask me, (worried about prestige and social approval but probably just as weird as anyone deep down), however I really dont have as much experience with them, so what does everyone else think about ESFjs? Like ESFps in the sense they always want to appear normal to others to boost their poplarity? Or different?

[Expat]

I wouldn't call ESFps "normal" by any stretch of the imagination...

Of course, but my experience with them is that they tend to see themselves as the reference point for being "normal".

I guess me and Expat have had bad experiences then.

That is always the problem when discussing personal experiences with types. I have no doubt that there are lots of ESFps who are perfectly accepting of XNTxs as being "normal", even if different from them. However, in my experience so far, they tend to dismiss XNTxs and even some XNFxs as being "odd", "cold", or depending on type, "weak" etc.

I have been told by an ESFp female friend whom I had known for 11 years, in an outburst, that I was "a good person" but that I wasn't "normal" because I didn't behave like "everyone else" regarding partying, dancing, caring about clothing and other important XSxp issues. That was an extreme case, but the impression I have from other ESFps is that they think something along those lines.

But that is only my experience, and I don't mean that every single ESFp is like that.

[Expat]

ESFjs are similar if you ask me, (worried about prestige and social approval but probably just as weird as anyone deep down), however I really dont have as much experience with them, so what does everyone else think about ESFjs? Like ESFps in the sense they always want to appear normal to others to boost their poplarity? Or different?

I'm not sure if I agree with your interpretation of ESFps, I think they tend naturally to follow what they perceive as mainstream, but not hiding any "weird" side to them.

I have observed some of that in ESFjs and it can be explained by their hidden agenda, "to be perfect".

[Megan]

My daughter is ESFp and I love this type but agian it all depends how intellegent the person is. Her father was pretty annoying when he tried to tease my pations. For him it was fun for me it was madness. My daughter fits perfectly in discription of socionics Model A and She finds me not quite normal but similar. We give each other space to live and don't bother each other. She loves company, to laugh and to wach music channels (it is her meditation), easy going, optimistic, but you better watch her mood (not a morning person) and untidy room. I guess Elvis was ESFP and so Roby Williams?, they can create zunami of people's emotions. INTJ don't fit with them briliantly because they have got no tool against power. When INTJ exploide, ESFP open a jaw of a lion and it goes nowhere, INTJ has to retreat. ESFP on the other hand estimate people by their power, may be in the same way, like other types assess other people on the basis of their strong functions which is only natural.

[Ave]

ESFjs are similar if you ask me, (worried about prestige and social approval but probably just as weird as anyone deep down), however I really dont have as much experience with them, so what does everyone else think about ESFjs? Like ESFps in the sense they always want to appear normal to others to boost their poplarity? Or different?

I'm not sure if I agree with your interpretation of ESFps, I think they tend naturally to follow what they perceive as mainstream, but not hiding any "weird" side to them.

I have observed some of that in ESFjs and it can be explained by their hidden agenda, "to be perfect".

I was relating my experience with them, perhaps your experiences are just different. ESFps I've known are not so stereotypically "mainstream"(whatever that means, ayways, Im not too sure) but they are very concerned with the norms of status of whatever group they hang out with. These norms vary with the groups: My ESFp friend in high school was not a stereotypical "prep" or "jock", like you might imagine from an ESxP, he was a skater. It was cool among skaters to insult "rich kids", "preps" etc and he did that alot without really knowing any of these people.

[mimisor]

I think nowadays "normal" is to be an extrovert, the rest of us have something defective in the brain that need to be fixed

It follows the rule "majority leads the minority", though, so I aasume if the world was introverted-oriented, the extroverts would be considered "abnormal"

note: I question if it still existed a society in that case, though.

[Creepy-]

Diversity is good for the survival of the species...

[mimisor]

Diversity is good for the survival of the species...

You mean diversity of the personalities, or the diversity biologically speaking?

[Creepy-]

Diversity is good for the survival of the species...

You mean diversity of the personalities, or the diversity biologically speaking?

Probably both. A society of introverts probably wouldn't get anything tangible done and a society of extraverts probably wouldn't get anything intangible done.

In any case, there are correlations between extraversion/introversion and genetics (twin studies and whatnot). I have pretty graphs in a book somewhere.

[Raver]

I personally believe that a normal type in society is someone who is ESXX, an INXX type would be seen as unique and different. The reason behind this is because:

75% of the population is extraverted
25% of the population is introverted

75% of the population is sensory dominated
25% of the population is intuitively dominated

Perceiving, judging, thinking and feeling is basically 50/50 among the population so those traits don't really have a factor.

So, what is considered normal, mixed and different would be as follows:

Normal Types: ESTJ, ESFJ, ESTP, ESFP

Mixed Types: ENTP, ENFP, ISTP, ISFP, ISTJ, ISFJ

Unique Types: INFP, INTP, INTJ, INFJ

[Creepy-]

You put INFP twice

[Raver]

You put INFP twice

lol fixed, but the real reason is because INFP's are extra special. :wink:

[Creepy-]

You put INFP twice

lol fixed, but the real reason is because INFP's are extra special. :wink:

You're a smart man :wink:

[mimisor]

Normal Types: ESTJ, ESFJ, ESTP, ESFP

Mixed Types: ENTP, ENFP, ISTP, ISFP, ISTJ, ISFJ

Unique Types: INFP, INTP, INTJ, INFJ

If I remeber correctly, on socionics.org it said ESTjs, ESFjs, ISTjs and ISFjs are the backbone of society, are the types that keep the society together, because of their qualities like hard-working (S) and goal-oriented (Judging)

So my theory is xSxj is considered "normal", also I think we could agree we need more xSxjs to keep the society together


And also all Extroverts are, in my opinion, favoured, even if they are non- Sj, because extroversion helps them to compensate.