My type?

[Lee]

Hi, I followed Pedro the Lion here and was wondering if you could help.

Okay, here is some stuff I wrote that might help shed light on my type, one of which was written when I was feeling quite down.

My logical reasoning is not something I think about very often, I am aware when I or others are being illogical yet I often find it difficult to pinpoint exactly why. Sometimes i'll hear a theory and intuitively know it is illogical, I then spend the next hour trying to figure out consciously what I already know unconsciously... I think my two strongest functions are Ti and Ni, I am unaware how this is supposed to work in socionics or MBTI or whatever but those two functions seem to describe my thinking quite well.

I often have difficulty in expressing my logical reasoning in words, I am forever struggling with language and how to get my ideas into a coherant logical package... I usually do not succeed very well.

I might be insane , or at least seriously unhinged. Sometimes the world just seems so screwed and my perception of it goes wonky... this especially occurs when I am tired, which is most of the time since I cannot sleep and have a job that requires I be up and alert in the morning... I usually manage the "up" part, the alert part is a slightly different matter. Anyway I behave in a slightly stoned manner when sleep deprived so people assume I must have some drug habit, truth be told I do not have any habits other than caffiene, bouts of existential depression and biting my nails.

Sometimes I think I am NF and NT, it all seems screwed in my head, one minute I am being cold, logical and blunt, disregarding feelings, morals etc. and just explaining what I believe ot be the cold harsh truth. The next moment I become all emotional, dreaming up all these romantic notions, listening to chesy love music and I have some really strange compulsions to be nice to people and "do right"... even though I am very nihilistic deep down and morally relative.

Before long I slip into a strange depression like earlier today, my feelings begin fighting for thier voice to be heard, my ego shouts out it's brilliance but the impartial cold thinking argues back and wins, explaining my feelings, acknowledging them before dissecting them and difffusing them of thier power... it's leaves me motionless and devoid of all motivation... then it passes and won't return for a week or two... the fact that I know this just bothers me more.

I do not feel like I am in control of my own thoughts, it's like my consciouness is just tagging along for the ride.

[science as magic]

Heh, hi Lee nice to see you. Describe yourself in a lot of detail please.

[Lee]

I edited my original post to include more detail... any ideas?

[science as magic]

I am aware when I or others are being illogical yet I often find it difficult to pinpoint exactly why.

Ne.

I then spend the next hour trying to figure out consciously what I already know unconsciously...

J

I think my two strongest functions are Ti and Ni, I am unaware how this is supposed to work in socionics or MBTI or whatever but those two functions seem to describe my thinking quite well.

NT mindset alpha or gamma.

I often have difficulty in expressing my logical reasoning in words, I am forever struggling with language and how to get my ideas into a coherant logical package... I usually do not succeed very well.

Perceiving but INTJs do this also especially search for the "right" word.

As for the rest you wrote that to me on antother site and I told you my thoughts. Also, I think you may be depressed which should be considered as a factor in the whole ENTP-INTJ fight that is sure to come up.

Hope that helps.

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[Cone]

*applause* We ought to have a poetry section on this board... :wink:

Funny what you said, though, Transigent. He does seem alot like what an ENTp would be like.

I do not feel like I am in control of my own thoughts, it's like my consciouness is just tagging along for the ride.

I feel that way alot, too. Sucks for concentration.

I often have difficulty in expressing my logical reasoning in words, I am forever struggling with language and how to get my ideas into a coherant logical package... I usually do not succeed very well.

That's why it's so great to be an Introverted Intuitive, according to Jung. It seems like I just have to point to the right things and people instantly understand.

Yup, you sound like you have the same function ordering as an ENTp or INTp, only it's in the ENTp's direction, so you are probably an ENTp.

But what do I know?


Your INTp friend,

Cone

[Lee]

Yet I also behave very introverted... I have often felt like an ENTP... but introverted

I often have difficulty in expressing my logical reasoning in words, I am forever struggling with language and how to get my ideas into a coherant logical package... I usually do not succeed very well.

I think this problem stems from a lack of order, I think very holistically, writing is very systematic, you have to explain step by step, logically building a picture around a framework.

I tend to try and condense everything into as few words as possible, it often lacks order and can be difficult to interpret.

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[science as magic]

For various reasons I think Lee is INTJ but he knows that so I didn't want to repeat it. I put it in here for now as a consideration to the members on this board.

Also, as per the extraversion I was really extraverted as a child... so what? Means nothing.

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[science as magic]

I was extraverted up until about 7 I'd say. But I mean really extraverted. I was a real comedian and I used my Ne to get my mostly Si dominant family to laugh. I was always out and about so on and so forth. Extraversion wears me out though. I get more active when I'm around people but generally less energized unless I can make them laugh and be jovial. My reputation for Ti has preceeded me though and often keeps me from acting that way around others.

I get that feeling too, not from the descriptions per-se, but from the actual structure/method/tone of his posts.

Among other things.

Also I like F coversation the best. It tears me up sometimes but I like it. T and N I can do on my own so I don't really care. S... well I don't really have anything to talk about with S because I don't pay attention to that stuff. I do like talking with ISFPs about what they observe with their S though... I find it fascinating how they notice minute changes in temperature, or saltiness, or volume, or light intensity, or texture. Fascinating... helps me enjoy Si so much and appreciate all the different aspects of it.

[Lee]

When I was very little I used to be very extroverted but by the time I was about 14 I just stopped interacting with people. Why specifically this was am not sure, it may have been that my extroversion was drummed out of me. I was very rebellious to authority until about 11, then I switched to a more passive introverted rebelliousness until about 16... that was when I left school.

I was never rebellious for the same reasons as other kids, I never had many friends and did not care about impressing others, I simply found life to be ever more stupid and confining, I resisted authority for my own purposes, most of the time I simply wanted to be left alone to draw, read, think or possibly engage in debate... as long as I was not being bored to death by the tedium of teachers, other pupils or the crap tasks being set.

It's strange looking back on it now.

[Lee]

Among other things.

It is worth noting that I play a part online to a degree, I am much less dogmatic and sure of myself in real life.

I am never able to make a decision or commit myself to a theory or idea fully, I often say that the best thing about not believing anything is that I can never be wrong

[Cone]

Strangely enough, I've often found that the ENTps I know act quite introverted alot of the time, and they all seem to have some kind of dead, drugged-up voice. I guess that just comes from being absent-minded.

[science as magic]

I would have said I didn't believe in anything at one point but I realized that was a lie when I discovered just how much things impact me no matter how much I try to deny their effects. Damned weak Se was the mechanism in my case. Didn't want anything/anyone to control me or influence me in any way.

[Cone]

Interesting, Pedro-the-Lion. I at one point couldn't let myself believe that God doesn't exist or humans don't have free will. But then somehow, I've found that none of that really matters to me, so here I am, Godless and materialistic. I'm not really sure what function contributes to that.

Oh, and Pedro-the-Lion, it seems like you explain everything you do by saying, "Se did it!" :wink:

[Lee]

oh, just to add, I have no head for details, not at all, in fact I find myself almost incapable of recalling details correctly.

I do not know if this contributes to a perticular problem with language, and that is word meaning, I find the meaning of symbols and words slippery and poorly defined, I frequently find myself checking up on words.

[Cone]

Ok, I'm going to take a less-beaten path and stray away from the ego by asking questions about some of the weaker functions.

1. Do you have any skills that you know you're good at, and do you generally like praise from people who compliment you on how good you are at them?

2. What's your take on hygiene and sanitation?

3. How well do you handle the direct display of the emotions of others?

4. Do you have any obsessive compulsions?

5. Did you ever take the Socionics Type Assistant at http://www.socionicstypeassistant.com ? If not, please do so.

Not sure if these questions will turn up anything useful, but they may.


Your INTp friend,

Cone

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[Lee]

1. Do you have any skills that you know you're good at, and do you generally like praise from people who compliment you on how good you are at them?

I am good at table tennis, I am barely sure how or why, I have never played it that much *shrugs*

I am good with equations, I am not sure how, I was rubbish at maths in school but then hey presto! I was working one day and I started coming up with all these complex equations in SQL.

I can spot inconsistancys in imagery very easily, I can spot the tiniest errors in special effects when I am paying attention... I used to think everybody could do this, then I discovered they couldn't.

I am always a few pages ahead of whatever book I am reading... I very rarely read fiction... and I do ot read enough.

2. What's your take on hygiene and sanitation?

I am lazy... I do enough.

3. How well do you handle the direct display of the emotions of others?

Varies depeding on mood and the individual, I can be very extroverted around those I am comfortable with, i often get told to shut up... every now and then when I am excited over some thought (I literally get excited, adrenaline rushes and freakish alertness) I am impossible to stop and talk at a 100mph. I can play the extrovert and treat emotion like something to be studied usually, I can spot liars and fakers very well... I often predict others behaviour... on occasion I can think about others in an almost psycopathic manner.

I could fool a gullable SF that I am psychic if I try, and I have done before.

4. Do you have any obsessive compulsions?

no

5. Did you ever take the Socionics Type Assistant at http://www.socionicstypeassistant.com ? If not, please do so.

I scored as INTP

[Lee]

Based on your dropping out of school at 16 (I am presuming you are from the USA, but if you are not, just disregard the rest of this subject) I would conclude that you probably have a reasonably high level of "intellegence". (I hate that word, and I would use a less elitist term, but this is the closest term I can think of.)

I live in the U.K. I am allowed to leave at 16, but most go onto college where I was expected to go.. I performed crap in exams I did not care about for a life I was fed up of... that was about 3 years ago.

Other than that you sound a lot like me... poor you

[CuriousSoul]

Lee, you could very well be an INTP. It seems that ENTPs are often very keen to recruit others to their type, but not every difficulty in your life is caused by your type. You could still look at the Oldham's types at this site. The correlation to socionics types is not quite one-to-one, but it is surprisingly high. ENTPs "hidden agenda" is to be loved, INTPs to love. How much positive emotions do you need from others? Do you want to like people, but find it difficult to express your emotions? Both types may be emotionally unstable. Quadra descriptions favor the Alpha too much to be suitable for typing.

[Cone]

I scored as INTP

Somehow, that's what I expected to see when I scrolled down to the end of your post...and somehow, that may make sense. But what I can't get over is how much other INTps just don't act like I do (then again, I can't really see myself objectively.)

Cone wrote:

1. Do you have any skills that you know you're good at, and do you generally like praise from people who compliment you on how good you are at them?


I am good at table tennis, I am barely sure how or why, I have never played it that much *shrugs*

I am good with equations, I am not sure how, I was rubbish at maths in school but then hey presto! I was working one day and I started coming up with all these complex equations in SQL.

I can spot inconsistancys in imagery very easily, I can spot the tiniest errors in special effects when I am paying attention... I used to think everybody could do this, then I discovered they couldn't.

I am always a few pages ahead of whatever book I am reading... I very rarely read fiction... and I do ot read enough.

Nice, nice...you sound a little like me, especially the "I can spot inconsistancys in imagery very easily, I can spot the tiniest errors in special effects when I am paying attention... I used to think everybody could do this, then I discovered they couldn't. " I used to think people had excellent memories, like me, until I found out the truth (try arguing with INFjs and their absolutely horrible memories!)

But you still didn't answer the rest of the question, and let me rephrase that: Do you generally enjoy praise from people about a skill you know you're good at?

I say this, because as an INTp myself, I can't stand praise for the things I'm good at. Either 1) they don't really know what "good" is, or 2) happy people scare me.

Quote:
2. What's your take on hygiene and sanitation?


I am lazy... I do enough.

Same here. Sometimes my hygiene is so bad, it worse than an INTj's.

Quote:
3. How well do you handle the direct display of the emotions of others?


Varies depeding on mood and the individual, I can be very extroverted around those I am comfortable with, i often get told to shut up... every now and then when I am excited over some thought (I literally get excited, adrenaline rushes and freakish alertness) I am impossible to stop and talk at a 100mph. I can play the extrovert and treat emotion like something to be studied usually,

Same here.

I can spot liars and fakers very well... I often predict others behaviour...

I'm not going to trust you on this. It seems that perhaps you may have been "suggested" to say this according to what the INTp's description says. But maybe you're right.

I myself am just realizing that I can predict short term events and people's behavior. Years ago, I couldn't say the same.

on occasion I can think about others in an almost psycopathic manner.

I think I know what you mean, but please elaborate.

I'm going to hold off on the typing for awhile, as I'm still having doubts on everything. So I can't say what you are right now. You sound like an INTp and then you don't.


Your INTp friend,

Cone

[Lee]

Nice, nice...you sound a little like me, especially the "I can spot inconsistancys in imagery very easily, I can spot the tiniest errors in special effects when I am paying attention... I used to think everybody could do this, then I discovered they couldn't. " I used to think people had excellent memories, like me, until I found out the truth (try arguing with INFjs and their absolutely horrible memories!)

I have a crap memory for detail, I notice detail but scarcely remember it, I have a much better memory ofr concepts where everything just flows into everthing else.

But you still didn't answer the rest of the question, and let me rephrase that: Do you generally enjoy praise from people about a skill you know you're good at?

I never could reach my own standards, almost all compliments I recieve are from people who deep down I do not respect, I do not feel as though anything I say or do is a personal thing, I can be very detached... people should not praise me for anything, I would rather they praise the idea I have proposed, it is not my idea either, I simply discovered it.

I have learned to deal with praise usually by joking about it, playing up to it in a silly manner to diffuse it of it's meaning.

I'm not going to trust you on this. It seems that perhaps you may have been "suggested" to say this according to what the INTp's description says. But maybe you're right.

I myself am just realizing that I can predict short term events and people's behavior. Years ago, I couldn't say the same.

I speak from experience here, I used to ignore my gut reaction until I realised it was correct very frequently e.g. I predicted that my sisters new boyfriend would cheat on her after meeting him once... one year later I was proved right. In fact I was predicting my work collegues behaviour just the other day... I even got the words they used correct.

I think I know what you mean, but please elaborate.

Ti is ruthless, I can think almost psychopathically if I wish to, I would nver be capable of acting on it however.... unless you realy pissed me off. I have a really evil streak in me should somebody provoke it, people get scared.

You sound like an INTp and then you don't.

That is why I am here.

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[Lee]

Lee, you could very well be an INTP. It seems that ENTPs are often very keen to recruit others to their type, but not every difficulty in your life is caused by your type. You could still look at the Oldham's types at this site. The correlation to socionics types is not quite one-to-one, but it is surprisingly high. ENTPs "hidden agenda" is to be loved, INTPs to love. How much positive emotions do you need from others? Do you want to like people, but find it difficult to express your emotions? Both types may be emotionally unstable. Quadra descriptions favor the Alpha too much to be suitable for typing.

Just because ENTPs like to recruit does not mean that I am not just an odd ENTP though.

As for the hidden agenda, part of me wants both of those things, neither more so than the other, I would pick both.

[Cone]

I know this is a really strange idea, but for some reason, you remind me so much of my ISFp friend. So my really strange typing ventures to say IxFp. I'm probably wrong, but hey, you never know...

This is why: "even though I am very nihilistic deep down and morally relative. " This is kind of the way he thinks. He often goes into bouts of "I'm so disillusioned with the human race" and "I hate people." He's a very jolly fellow when around people he knows, but take him out of his natural habitat and he's instantly depressed (like going to the FBLA competition, this is where it got so bad we started worrying about him.)

Also, think about it this way: I'm quite rude and ignorant of others according to many people, but deep down I'm really quite fond of everyone, and I'm a humanist. I have the same feeling-thinking struggle you often have, but for me it seems that neither of them really wins; I'm just grateful to have strong emotions at times.

Think about the hidden agenda, "to understand," and how it may apply to yourself. Ring a bell?

Well, whatever.


Your INTp friend,

Cone

[science as magic]

Interesting, Pedro-the-Lion. I at one point couldn't let myself believe that God doesn't exist or humans don't have free will. But then somehow, I've found that none of that really matters to me, so here I am, Godless and materialistic. I'm not really sure what function contributes to that.

Oh, and Pedro-the-Lion, it seems like you explain everything you do by saying, "Se did it!" :wink:

I was not refering to God but He applies and did make me do it!!!! Try living with an ISFJ for most of your life...

And Lee is most definitely NT and Ti seems to be connected to nihilism. Also I wrote him a reply detailing why I thought he was INTJ which I will post with his permission. I know what it's like to be a heavily depressed INTJ. It really makes you act as what a P stereotypically acts like.

Also, I used to swear I could read people well. I think it's related to as a role function which you try to manifest to others. I can read people well but when I met INFJs I ceeded mastery to them.

[Lee]

I have probably come across more emotional than intended so far. I certainly do not relate well to the ISFP.

It may be worth mentioning that I would qualify as HSP, I do not have much respect or time for HSP, it's avery questionable diagnosis... but none the less I relate to it (minus the excessive emotional mushiness), I tend to become easily overwhelmed and exhausted by excessive stimulus. This always seems to cut short my extroverted activity even when I am enjoying it.

I am usually very calm and definately value logical argument over emotional concerns. I do however have somewhat of a facsination with emotions, I am forever trying to understand them.

And I think I am good at reading people, even though I know many will be better.

(I have lived with an ISFJ my most of my life, bloody annoying creatures they too, totally different planets).

[Lee]

oh and one more thing... I really fit the ADD innatentive description, had I been born a few years later and in the U.S. I would probably have been pumped full of whatever drug by my well meaning ESFJ mother.

[science as magic]

Hmm that is another way to diagnose this intertype relations but I'm not sure if you mean MBTI or socionics types.

Anyway you don't get along with ISFJs, ESFJs, and ISFPs if I am understanding this correctly?

Could you describe what made you come to the conclusion that they were those types?

[Lee]

Hmm that is another way to diagnose this intertype relations but I'm not sure if you mean MBTI or socionics types.

Anyway you don't get along with ISFJs, ESFJs, and ISFPs if I am understanding this correctly?

Could you describe what made you come to the conclusion that they were those types?

I am talking more along MBTI lines as that is what I am most familiar with, I get along fine with ISFP's, ESFJ's irritate me but most of the time I am fine with them.

My opinion of ISFJ's is massively skewed by a ISFJ sibling who is symbolic of all that annoys me about the world.

Of course I am making massive generalisations here, there are always exceptions etc. etc.

[science as magic]

Hmmm had an ISFJ parent (under both systems) so I can relate.

[Lee]

So I have read several discussions on this forum that have mentioned the idea that some ENTP's have thier extroversion "beat" out of them... what do people think about the validity of this idea?

I have often wondered if I am ENTP deep down, mainly because I was never comfortable with the idea that Ti was my strongest function, I have always been so led by my intuition.

[science as magic]

Jung said it was possible. Personally I think many of these people feel exrtraverted but are in fact introverted. Typologists wrote about this a lot in the 50s-70s and said that it tended to happen when someone was developing some new aspect of their personality. Thus the ESFJ for example would go to parties all the time and stuff but claim that they were an introvert etc etc.

[diamond]

I am entp but not all that extroverted. It's hard to tell with entp because entp's aren't all that socially smooth; after awhile if you are entp you realize this and start to shut up a little bit so you don't look stupid, so you might come across as more introverted.

is definitely not my first function. It's definitely . But I'm not touchy feeling or a schmoozer the way enfp's are, so I deduce I am entp.

I test as intj though.

I also can't get along at all with isfj's. I usually know instantly when I've met one. I get a certain vibe.

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[Lee]

You know what, this is easily resolved.

I am an INTJ with dominant iNtuition, simple. It doesn't bother me that this technically doesn't fit with the theory because it explains it perfectly, obviously the theory is not flexible or good enough.

[Cone]

Lee, even though I don't think you're an INTj by any stretch of the mind, you believe what you want, because I don't think anyone is going to figure you out.

Put the words "lights", and "city" in a sentence.

The introvert will tend to give thier opinions and feelings is a sentence created in this manner. Such as: "I don't like the lights in the city."

Hence, subjectivity.

The extrovert will be more objective. Such as: "The lights in the city come on at 7-o-clock."

I asked my INTj cousin this, and do you know what he said? "The lights turn on in the city." That's actually how I would expect most people to answer.

I think I said something along the lines of, "The bright, white lights illuminated the cold, dark city so beautifully that night, that one could only wonder if this was the true driving force of the world, to see the beauty and glory that this earth, this universe, this life truly stands upon." :wink:


Your INTp friend,

Cone

[Lee]

Lee, even though I don't think you're an INTj by any stretch of the mind, you believe what you want, because I don't think anyone is going to figure you out.

By any stretch of the mind? I have been confused as to whether I was INTJ or ENTP (I am definatly Alpha), it hardly seems a stretch for me to be INTJ, especially considering I relate most closely to the INTJ profile. But why can't I still relate to the INTJ profile but still have Ne as my strongest function? I am still skeptical about the fuctions anyway, my gut reaction tells me they simplify the whole process too much.

Anyway, is it not possible that my Ne and Ti are both equally dominant?