Betas, how do you find that Delta is your opposing quadra?

[strrrng]

Yeah, male ESTjs are blundering ******s.

[crazedrat]

this is like watching a soccer match from a booth above the stadium and drinking beer laughing with my friends listening to beethoven.

[strrrng]

It has to be soccer – those guys can bumble. Beethoven gives it aristocratic immunity.

[Park]

Yeah, male ESTjs are blundering ******s.

Don't you dare talk about Expat like that!

[strrrng]

Don't you dare talk about Expat like that!

He's a blundering soccer star.

[leftylib]

To answer the original question I think the real issue with Delta is actually more bout Gamma than it is about Beta. Anais Nin said:


"Neurosis was caused by our attempt to separate physical and metaphysical levels, to set them up in opposition to each other, thus engaging in an internecine war.
If it is true that we do live on several levels simultaneously- drama and action, past and present, personnel and collective. we are given ways to unify them: one by religion, the other by art. Separating such levels is only necessary when they conflict, and separation is a result of conflict...Seeing how these levels can work together in harmony is the task of our contemporary writers." from The Novel Of The Future

Lefty
ENFJ
4w5

[Ezra]

Boring as fuck. No ambition.

[Marie84]

Boring as fuck. No ambition.

Damn straight

[Park]

Damn straight

<3

[wacey]

The other thing I wanted to mention was something very critical that happens in our minds in that moment when we are asked or we are being challenged. It is in that moment that I think is the analog to what JuJu said "When you're around them you'll probably want to say as little as possible and hope to leave as quickly as possible." It's in that moment that we don't want to screw up or say the wrong thing or whatever. It's a penetrating, tense influx of thoughts, possibilities and decision trees in which we feel as though we need to answer correctly and we need to do it in a satisfactory time frame (very quickly), and there's this preventative mode where we are trying to avoid the negative possibilities and because those negative possibilities are always nearby, we are trying to remove ourselves from that moment as quickly as possible to avoid even reaching something we don't want to be in. Now, I purposefully left out those situations in which the body language of the person shows a disdain or basic disgust or mockery about what they are being asked to do. Let's explore that. I think that this sort of response is not limited to Deltas, and not entirely type related, would you agree? I think, however, that this particular response that would typically come from the Delta quadra is one in which the responder's focus is on their measure of the group's activity rather than on how to respond to the question that has been posed. It's an important distinction. If the responder's focus is only on the merits of the activity then they are not thinking about how they are going to come across, they are not going to mince words and they are not going to hide their true sentiment or bias about their feeling about the activity. Their priority is on their standard of ethics. And I'm talking about cases in which the activity does not want to be done by the responder. And to that, I can see where you're coming from if I were in the group's position and I saw someone come by with a "You're asking me if I want to do this? You're crazy right? Not in a million years would I be caught dead doing what you're doing." kind of look, then I would feel extremely judged and extremely sensitive to what I was doing. It's an exposing feeling. It's disarming. I can understand that sentiment. I think if the responder chooses to answer the question and focuses on how to answer the question in a respectable way, regardless if they agree with what the group is doing, they can answer the question in a way that attempts to be respectful of the question and of the people asking it. I see these two situations as two different aspects of , on one hand you have a person who is focusing on their standard of ethics, their judgment of their set of standards which will not be compromised. On the other hand you have an aspect of that is more empathetic. It is attempting to figure out based on the response how the answer will be received. In one the response and the attitude toward the activity is fixed and has already been determined before they respond. In the other, the response has not been determined, but the responder's attitude might have an initial reaction. It's easy to dump this all on and just blame that as the problem, but you have to consider that there are other aspects that use the same information element that can actually be used to turn a situation like that into something that can be acceptable.

Wow. Great, lucid writting. A real privilage reading this. Thank-You.

[HandiAce]

I can get along with any type really. Betas included. The one trait I have noticed in supposed beta types that I think creates a loss of translation in values between me and them is the open expression of emotions. Often, these emotions can be quite offensive to me, but that is probably because I take what people say and do seriously.

[Absurd]

One can get along with any one, as in, your opposing quadra, other quadras, people, etc. Question is, for how long?

[somavision]

One can get along with any one, as in, your opposing quadra, other quadras, people, etc. Question is, for how long?

I read your books... Our time is up .. Screw You.

[Absurd]

I read your books... Our time is up .. Screw You.

Ah yes, yes, of course. Our time has come, forum is going downhill and all will die, reptilians come to take us...

Books, ehh

[Saberstorm]

When you're around them you'll probably want to say as little as possible and hope to leave as quickly as possible.

This is pretty accurate.

[Eliza Thomason]

This is interesting feedback against Deltas, and its fair to give it because according to Socionics we are all extremely annoying to some other types. I like how Socionics is very leveling that way. But I must protest passive-aggression because I am completely not that, and neither are the two ENFPs I know well.

However my INFJ friend is that way very cleverly; its very amusing when she tells me what she does, though I would never do what she does. But she is this way with her aggressively hostile Conflictor husband, and he deserves it. She gives back what she gets, but in her own way. [and I don't believe "an eye for an eye", but I returned kindness for hostile manipulations and it got me nothing but disrespect from my ex, and INFJ is holding her own in a bad situation].

I did do thigs her way one parfticular time I remember. My ex, in his hostility (INFJ's husband is my ex's brother; it runs in the family) refused to respond to my requests to give me any clue what time on Sunday he was bringing our son back by, so i could never plan anything, and I shared my helpless frustration (since asking plainly and politely asking is the only thing I knew since I am not passive aggressive) with my INFJ friend. I took her advice to lock the house and just not be home, and when he called my cell phone demanding where I was, I said, "Oh! I am clear across town shopping. Its going to take me awhile to leave the mall and get to my car and drive there." And I took my time. And he had to wait there outside the house with our young son before he left town for his 6 hour drive home. It was the best advice because it only took twice and I have never had to ask again. And since he never knew me to be passive aggressive, he never even suspected I did this on purpose.

[Absurd]

How long are they married?

[Eliza Thomason]

Its been a long liason, they have an 9 and 11 year old; he put off the promised marraige for years, while her parents died one after the other in the Carribean and she could not attend funeral without green card. I think he made it legal 2 years ago, (she got her card) with a pre-nup she had to sign saying she gets nothing (and pre-nups make it annul-able in the Catholic Church). Since he does not want to bother getting married in the Church she has good reason to continue to live as brother and sister... which she prefers since his is so unkind and disrespectful to her.

I hope she finds a LSE someday when their planned divorce happens (kids get older). She is intelligent, thrifty (she spends almost not a dime of his money, just does without), warmly personable, and very pretty so she should have no problem dating...

[zomgqwantz]

But that's only because betas are wrong about everything, as a delta I find gamma the best quadra

except all the coke and whores ruin their lives

[Beautiful sky]

Its been a long liason, they have an 9 and 11 year old; he put off the promised marraige for years, while her parents died one after the other in the Carribean and she could not attend funeral without green card. I think he made it legal 2 years ago, (she got her card) with a pre-nup she had to sign saying she gets nothing (and pre-nups make it annul-able in the Catholic Church). Since he does not want to bother getting married in the Church she has good reason to continue to live as brother and sister... which she prefers since his is so unkind and disrespectful to her.

I hope she finds a LSE someday when their planned divorce happens (kids get older). She is intelligent, thrifty (she spends almost not a dime of his money, just does without), warmly personable, and very pretty so she should have no problem dating...

I won't mind helping her find an LSE

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

that's dangerous stuff.he may turn out to be ESE.strong INFj woman will be hurt.

[wacey]

that's dangerous stuff.he may turn out to be ESE.strong INFj woman will be hurt.

Relationships of illusion. So close yet so far. Sorry I quoted you.

[ArchonAlarion]

Quick Lesson:

Shut the fuck up, ******.

=)

tpirate <3

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

@Wacey

see?the mention works ,as well.

[Azure Flame]

Deltas are my opposing quadra because they don't like familiarity, playing make believe (I'll get made fun of because I'm getting a little TOO into laser tag, etc) and their obsession with professionalism I find irrational, inexplicable, and completely limiting on anything fun or ambitious I want to do with them nearby.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

Deltas are my opposing quadra because they don't like familiarity,

There is earned familiarity, and there is, "Who are you and why are you up in my space? Do I know you/like you that well?".

playing make believe (I'll get made fun of because I'm getting a little TOO into laser tag, etc)

That may depend on the Delta and the situation. I am very much into playing make-believe, depending on the environment.

[717495]

Delta is the best quadra, and there is actually a low probability of me saying that so it's probably true.

Anyway keep these comments coming, c'mon you betas know the royal we piss you off.

[Beautiful sky]

Deltas are my opposing quadra because they don't like familiarity, playing make believe (I'll get made fun of because I'm getting a little TOO into laser tag, etc) and their obsession with professionalism I find irrational, inexplicable, and completely limiting on anything fun or ambitious I want to do with them nearby.

yeah yeah

Question: what do you mean that deltas don't like "familiarity"?

[Beautiful sky]

I don't feel like I constantly have to be highly engaged when I'm around Delta; when I'm with Delta quad, I can go to sleep when I want and do other things rather than what they Beta is doing. Beta don't like to absorb themselves in small and winding talks of relationships, people, motives and personalities like I like to and like my "Psychologist" mirror does, also; they just don't care about exploration in that way; they want to get to the point and move on.

[Azure Flame]

yeah yeah

Question: what do you mean that deltas don't like "familiarity"?

Well, that might have been more ESTj related more than anything. ISTp's and ESTj's tend to avoid talking about things they like, or showing any sort of affiliation with things that are emotional. ISTp's don't like expressing themselves from what I gather.

[Beautiful sky]

Well, that might have been more ESTj related more than anything. ISTp's and ESTj's tend to avoid talking about things they like, or showing any sort of affiliation with things that are emotional. ISTp's don't like expressing themselves from what I gather.

LSE are very sensitive; they are very emotional internally it just doesn't show on the outside; these emotions are subtle and understated; they are not bold and expressive like that of SLE. They are there, one just has to pay close attention to the ups and downs of emphasis on certain topics and certain mentions of things/people that incite these emotions. If one really makes it warm and comfortable for an LSE to open up emotionally, they are quite the happy/jokeful/and teary eyed. They do avoid showing their sensitive side to people they don't trust because well, that hurts them. They vest so much of their energy/emphasis in these touchy subjects that it's something meant for the very trusting and close. They don't want people to violate their sensitivity about certain things and criticize them about those things. They give hugs to people they love to express their bond...etc.

But build an emotionally close friendship with an LSE, then the person is likely to love you forever, unless you do some injustice towards them, even if you ask for forgiveness, they are likely to take you back. They make a golden model of a rock in a relationship.

[mikemex]

.We're not secretly judging you all the damn time...

Speak for yourself, I like to judge betas all the time.

[Morcheeba]

Trust me it's tough. My husband's parents are delta and just tonight they went to a bike rally and we are housesitting for them. They are staying in a camper, ( I would never do this). His mother asked me if we had a son could she call him Harley, very annoying!