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Thread: How to find/identify/recognize ESIs-ISFjs: style, characteristics, observations

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    Default How to find/identify/recognize ESIs-ISFjs: style, characteristics, observations

    Hello Gammarians. Of all the types, ESI is the hardest for me to really understand and pin down. Upon my first introduction to Socionics, I thought the type sounded a little scary (all the talk about enemies and whatnot). I am well acquainted with SEEs (love them), so how is the mirror type similar, and how different? How could I go about spotting them? What are they really like? Any good type descriptions of them?

    I note the ESIs on the forum like Diana, but it's hard for me to transfer forum behavior to real life, especially when dealing with introverts. Thank you.
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    I actually find ESI and LSI to be very similar when compared gender to gender (male ESI vs. male LSI etc.).

    Only ESI's have souls.


    And I agree with Warlord about how they are loving. Imagine how loving a SEE is when they are paying attention to you, except extract the part where they're attention gets diverted by something shiny.

    I imagine ESI's get distracted by....rule-breakers? lol...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khamelion View Post
    I actually find ESI and LSI to be very similar when compared gender to gender (male ESI vs. male LSI etc.).
    I am actually having a problem with this difference on typing a friend of mine. I'm thinking LSI since she is somewhat cold, however if she were a male and acted exactly as she does I might think ESI. So I'm not sure. She's probably LSI.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danielle View Post
    How could I go about spotting them? What are they really like? Any good type descriptions of them?
    They are polite.

    They have a secret wish for control.

    Often they seem to have a frightened or surprised look in their face, it can be noticed in both subtypes.

    Some of them are very judgemental. (really annoying!)

    They are submissive and like to complain how other people abuse that trait.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    They are submissive and like to complain how other people abuse that trait.
    No.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    No.
    I think he means that they complain about people taking advantage of their goodwill. Submissive isn't the right word.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    I think he means that they complain about people taking advantage of their goodwill. Submissive isn't the right word.
    yep, goodwill is indeed what I meant. thanx.

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    This is me complaining about people taking advantage of my goodwill.



    I had a guy I know I never really trusted him from the word go.

    He was planning on selling his guitar I offered to give it a setup and clean it up to give it a better chance of selling
    but more importantly because I enjoy fixing guitars.

    Anyway he wasn't working at the time but he had a pension coming though.
    He invited me to go and see a movie and have something to eat.

    So I show up with my tools and guitar cleaning kit and get to work.
    The guitar was a mess it was covered in grime and dust a few of the strings were broken and
    the rest of them were worn out the needed to be replaced.

    It turned out he didn't have any money from strings so I offered to loan him the money.
    I then proceeded to clean the guitar and set it up to play a bit better, he was very impressed.

    Me and the other guy who was decide to get take away we end up getting a few Chinese dishes to share
    I was pretty hungry at that point to I ended up getting $20 Aud of food for myself trust me it wasn't that much food for the money.

    When we get back he is having tuna on toast I feel sorry for him so I offer him some of my Chinese food.
    Then he puts food in the fridge and say I can eat this later. so my food food which I bought for myself ends up getting split three ways.

    After eating he take a Dvd which he rented and puts in on and we watch that.
    At the end of the night I am out of pocket $40 Aud and I had a pretty ordinary time.

    When I get home and think about what happen I begin the fume I realize that
    I had be used and the whole thing was a massive CON!.

    The next time I see him which is 2 weeks later I ask for my money he tries to make an excuse.
    "Oh I don't want to break a $50 so I take out my wallet and give him $25 and I take his $50.
    I figure "ok I lose money but at least he realizes that I won't be taken advantage of".

    After that I cut him off completely I am still very polite when I see him but I don't want anything to do with him.

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    ESIs get themselves into unhealthy and strategically unsound relationships because of their weak intuition. It has nothing to do with "submissiveness".

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    I don't think "submissive" is an accurate word. If it looks like that to someone, that's probably more about the person seeing it than the ESI.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    I don't think "submissive" is an accurate word. If it looks like that to someone, that's probably more about the person seeing it than the ESI.
    I think so too. I think Beta types may interpret static Fi bonds as submissive, since the person with the static Fi tends to "stick" with the person they've formed the bond with. To Betas, this might appear as a lack of individualism.

    I know an ESI woman whose relatives were repeatedly borrowing money from her. Out of a sense of obligation and loyalty, she happily lent the money. But when one of them crossed the line by implying that they were somehow entitled to her generosity, she snapped at them very harshly and would not lend them any more money.

    The bond is not about the other person's will, but a static ideal of what is ethical in a relationship. When the other person breaches this ideal, the ESI can react very aggressively. If the ideal is followed, the ESI can seem passive, or "submissive".

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    Maybe the issue here is that we're defining "submissive" in different ways.

    When I hear the word "submissive", I think of a person who does things that they do not want to do or do not feel they should do out of obedience to another person or to rules. If a person is "submissive" to another person, it is usually because that person is in some sort of hierarchical position over the other. Whether their authority is due to a rule system or due to a personal bond, the "submissive" person sees the person in authority as being "in charge" of them in some way shape or form.

    Both Se + Fi ego types are very self-possessed and strong-willed. They are very keenly aware of their likes, dislikes, desires, and moral values, and they are confident about how much force they should apply in order to get what they want (or do what they feel is right) and comfortable doing so. Gamma NT's like this because they are often unsure about their own likes, dislikes, and desires. They don't have a clear concept of what is right or wrong in a given situation or how much force they should apply. They're attracted to Se + Fi. They want to be with someone who's self-possessed and strong-willed. They would not respect a partner who just meekly does as they're told.

    Their IJ temperament and Ti role may also give them the appearance of being "dutiful", but it's just them being responsible and good at follow through. For someone who's not IJ, this probably looks like it requires a lot more effort than it actually does for the ESI. (There may also be an aspect their weak Ni and Ne causing them to do or continue to do something that may not make sense, but that's what they have their duals for.)

    Will ESI's do things for people they care about? Absolutely! They can be perfectly content loyally doing things that other people see as "above the call of duty". However, it is not out of obedience. It is because they want to do what they're doing (not necessarily because they enjoy it, but because they have decided for themselves that it's something they should do). If they didn't, they wouldn't. They are not ones to just subserviently bow to the will of another. They definitely would not be tolerant of someone who tries to order them around.
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    Now I start wondering.

    Which types are more submissive than an ESI?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Now I start wondering.

    Which types are more submissive than an ESI?
    I would say "most". Like all those that don't have Se in the ego block. The ESIs I know have a pretty commanding presence. Think of Paul Newman. They certainly are not "more submissive" than I am. I sometimes am at a loss as to what people are seeing. Here and the Catherine Zeta-Jones thread. What are people looking at?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    I would say "most". Like all those that don't have Se in the ego block. The ESIs I know have a pretty commanding presence. Think of Paul Newman. They certainly are not "more submissive" than I am. I sometimes am at a loss as to what people are seeing. Here and the Catherine Zeta-Jones thread. What are people looking at?
    LSI are not submissive. Between ESI and LSI there's a whole base function that changes, which is quite a lot.

    Lovely arguments from Gilly and Discojoe, as usual.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    LSI are not submissive. Between ESI and LSI there's a whole base function that changes, which is quite a lot.

    Lovely arguments from Gilly and Discojoe, as usual.
    I would say that Beta STs appear the most dominant, but I'd put Gama SFs as next.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    LSI are not submissive. Between ESI and LSI there's a whole base function that changes, which is quite a lot.

    Lovely arguments from Gilly and Discojoe, as usual.
    It's hard to argue with you about Socionics because your premises aren't compatible with ours, so it's like we're not speaking the same language.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    I would say that Beta STs appear the most dominant, but I'd put Gama SFs as next.
    I agree. One of my childhood friends was SLE, and even though I always felt like I had some kind of advantage over him, I was never "dominant" over him in an Se sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    It's hard to argue with you about Socionics because your premises aren't compatible with ours, so it's like we're not speaking the same language.
    Yup.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    I would say "most". Like all those that don't have Se in the ego block.
    Exactly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Maybe the issue here is that we're defining "submissive" in different ways.

    When I hear the word "submissive", I think of a person who does things that they do not want to do or do not feel they should do out of obedience to another person or to rules. If a person is "submissive" to another person, it is usually because that person is in some sort of hierarchical position over the other. Whether their authority is due to a rule system or due to a personal bond, the "submissive" person sees the person in authority as being "in charge" of them in some way shape or form.

    Both Se + Fi ego types are very self-possessed and strong-willed. They are very keenly aware of their likes, dislikes, desires, and moral values, and they are confident about how much force they should apply in order to get what they want (or do what they feel is right) and comfortable doing so. Gamma NT's like this because they are often unsure about their own likes, dislikes, and desires. They don't have a clear concept of what is right or wrong in a given situation or how much force they should apply. They're attracted to Se + Fi. They want to be with someone who's self-possessed and strong-willed. They would not respect a partner who just meekly does as they're told.

    Their IJ temperament and Ti role may also give them the appearance of being "dutiful", but it's just them being responsible and good at follow through. For someone who's not IJ, this probably looks like it requires a lot more effort than it actually does for the ESI. (There may also be an aspect their weak Ni and Ne causing them to do or continue to do something that may not make sense, but that's what they have their duals for.)

    Will ESI's do things for people they care about? Absolutely! They can be perfectly content loyally doing things that other people see as "above the call of duty". However, it is not out of obedience. It is because they want to do what they're doing (not necessarily because they enjoy it, but because they have decided for themselves that it's something they should do). If they didn't, they wouldn't. They are not ones to just subserviently bow to the will of another. They definitely would not be tolerant of someone who tries to order them around.
    SEE

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    You're describing an abstract Something.

    Actually describe, without socionics jargon, ESIs you know in real life. My bad for not making my question clearer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    You're describing an abstract Something.

    Actually describe, without socionics jargon, ESIs you know in real life. My bad for not making my question clearer.
    It appears that you're looking to pick apart whatever I say and argue that it's not ESI, so I'm not interested in spending much time or effort on writing this description here and now. And I'm not going to debate it with you.

    Here's a brief description:

    They're responsible, reliable, prompt, and self-controlled. They tend to worry about the future more than most other types, and it's the practical aspects of the situation that they tend to be most insecure about. They're slow to accept someone into their "inner circle", but once that person is considered one of their friends/loved ones, they're fiercely loyal to that person. They are very clear about their values and desires. They are unsympathetic (at best) to those who they feel are "bad people". They are more aware of physical danger than most people are (or at least it seems so to me).
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    Default What constitutes a bad person?

    My first post here.....I have an ESI male friend and his spouse has cheated on him and by all accounts is not a good person. When will the ESI draw the line in the sand for bad behavior? I thought they were not big on pardoning treachery.... She is an SEI who sits back and lets him do everything while she chills.

    Does the ESI loyalty ever play out?? Details....
    It's so easy to love me! I'm an IEE!!

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    video of a very stereotypical ESI, both the actress and the role that she plays in this movie

    The Girl trailer with Abbie Cornish



    Jerry LaVigne (ESI-Fi), a very obvious example of negativist -Fi+Se "enforcement" taking place within this video - when his friends don't act the way he feels they should act, he feels "out of control" and reinforces how they should behave according to his own set of "personal rules" (Fi + Se)
    Last edited by silke; 05-02-2014 at 02:29 PM.

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    typical symptoms of ESI include: breast implants and duckface, matched with a backbone and firm sense of self.
    Perfect<------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Loops and Tings



    Ambivert / Aggressor / Trailblazer / Nomad / Alpha Caretaker / Free Spirit / Kevlar Speed Demon / Ninja

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    typical symptoms of ESI include: breast implants and duckface, matched with a backbone and firm sense of self.


    she represents every ESI I have ever met, obviously.

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    When you see a guy who looks like him
    crusader.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    When you see a guy who looks like him
    crusader.jpg
    This. And you just know.
    “No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov

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    Perfect<------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Loops and Tings



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    peter steele :<

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