Supervision inter-type relationship between the singer and the driver
Last edited by khcs; 05-11-2019 at 11:13 AM.
She's honestly one of the hardest people to type. I think she has Fe, I'm not really seeing Fi tbh
Now I'm thinking LSE...
I think LII-Ti
Robespierre-guillotine-vengence songs. And looks. I am almost sure I used to know two girls of type and subtype and they were super crazy, I mean, a bit mental. "MY LOGIC". Not very ambitous, high morals yet quite a lot of boyfriends, guys keept at distance and often criticized (with me). Been paranoids about relationsips. Both liked cats.
Anyway, to me Taylor looks like someone who needs care but is not very prone to admit it and take from anywhere.
Laziness is not about N-S but rather quadra values, I think. Alpha.
Last edited by Ilamatecuhtli; 08-31-2019 at 12:19 PM.
Robespierre was an EIE though.
her music seems definitely Se valuing
don't really know much about her bc I find her music boring and predictable. I would say that SLE seems likely based on an intuitive guess. maybe I will read more about her in the next few days.
that's fine. I like to learn.
She is obsessed with her personal image/persona and she always manages to find a way to convince herself that she is in the right. Fe-Ti with low intuition. I also think she is an extrovert. SLE or ESE. She is hard to type because she clearly obsessed about micromanaging her public image. If nothing else we can definitely type her as neurotic
Aren’t many of her songs about taking vengeance or generally acting aggressively? I can’t see her being Si/Ne valuing. The emphasis on struggle and all that has always struck me as Beta — having not watched/listened to her much, I assumed EIE, but after reading this thread, I agree that she could be a thinking type. SLE seems likely enough, if she isn't EIE.
Others have mentioned that her persona seems manipulative. ESEs can be manipulative in a sense, but they aren’t schemers (or good at making elaborate plans in general), and, as a rule, aren’t vengeful people. When they’re “manipulative,” they act nice, well-intentioned, and unassuming in order to keep peace, ferret out information from people, or get something particular they want. They act manipulative for specific reasons; they aren’t habitually so. They (and maybe Alphas in general) dislike secrets; they prefer an atmosphere of honesty in which they can speak freely, and tell people to their face what they think.
Anyway, I won’t fight for my Beta typing, but I’m at least pretty sure she’s not ESE.
Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 09-04-2019 at 03:31 AM.
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There is no way that SLE is that comfortable singing and striking relations, lol.
EIE. Seems like her Fi at least wants to run amok which is one of possible ignoring behaviors.
Measuring you right now
Winning is for losers
About how good she deals with relations is not known to you good. But you may see with much higher evidence that she's not emotional in nonverbal.
Try with your "mighty T" to deal with the information more reasonably.
in general, to type by a behavior people as famouses is doubtful approach. VI is more useful for this, due to lack of other info and its doubtful truth
Stewie Griffin and the voice actor is ENFP - Huxley
from 1:40 on, it looks to me that she has a strong focus on Fe. I would also say that it's very clear that she's an extrovert. the "secret society" comment @2:11 from her makes me lean towards Ni valuing, so yeah, EIE could absolutely be possible.
Last edited by dead account; 09-03-2019 at 11:01 PM.
haha I just looked at her twitter. should have done that before. EIE for sure.
I arrived here because I read a column in the newspaper mentioning her, and I wondered: who the fuck is Taylor Swift? I had heard her name on occasion, but never actually saw her on TV or something. Since this thread has 8 pages, we can safely conclude I must be getting old ;-)
Anyway, I'd say EIE for her type, and I greatly dislike her after seeing some of the videos here. And I hate her music too, lots of pumped-up bass, autotuning shit, the kind of music blue collar betas seem to dig all day long on radio stations that repeat their programming every hour over here in Holland .
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
My best guess is SLE. She is capable of tapping into her Fe, maybe better than most SLEs, and will readily do so when the situation requires, like on interviews or fan meet & greets. I think it can still feel a bit forced compared to EIE/ESE though for which expressing Fe comes more naturally. She has done some interviews where she uses Ti more and she feels much more natural.
She has a pretty dry sense of humour, but one thing I will say is that she seems quite excitable, at least as a teenager. Her producer commented that she'd jump and dance around when she was happy with what they created together. I don't really think her "surprised face" was fake, at least not for the first few years. She's mellowed out some in her mid 20s but I'd say she's still pretty excitable for her age. Despite that, she is still pretty good at avoiding emotional outbursts when provoked, at least in public, she's never lost control when people were rude to her.
She is definitely competitive with a strong desire for recognition and attention that can feel a bit child-like. She recently published some diary entries from when she was 13-27 years old as part of a deluxe album package for fans, and she admitted to bragging to everyone she knew when she got a record deal, and previously admitted to bragging her school that Jay-Z liked her performance of the national anthem at an NBA game when she was 11. Now, as an adult, she knows that she should try to appear at least somewhat humble, so she'll just say something like
"I was told that you guys broke the attendance record at this venue, I started writing songs to help myself cope with things I was going through and I never expected that I would sell out stadium tours, it means to much to me that thousands of you wanted to share your evening with me because that means you guys relate to what I write and understand what I've been going through"
(but she'll still make sure to mention that it's a stadium tour and any records she broke)
When the crowd at a concert is cheering for her, her face is glowing like a child that was just given their favorite candy. Most performers would not show how much they're enjoying the cheering in such a visible way. She often tries to write songs (about one per album) about how she doesn't care what people think and also says that in interviews, but it mostly comes off as Taylor saying those things in an attempt to convince herself to stop caring because I think it's quite obvious that what people think of her affects her.
People mentioned revenge. I think the prevalence of revenge as a theme in her music is exaggerated, but it certainly does exist, and in addition to retaliation, you also see her always wanting to have the last word and there seems to be a need for her to believe that if someone hurt her, they come out of the situation worse off than her. Like if her and a guy break up, she needed to believe he misses her and regrets not treating her better.
Not that she stays mad at her exes forever, she can admit wrong-doing, like on "Back To December" and "Afterglow", and forgive, as shown by the dramatic change in the message in "Forever & Always" compared to "Last Kiss" which were both about the same ex-boyfriend.
Back to the part about being competitive. She got straight As in school, and worked hard to get her career started. She was quite uncompromising when it came to getting what she wanted too, for example, she walked away from record deals when she was 14 because they didn't give her enough control over how she wanted to do things, writing her own songs, etc. For her first album, she insisted that her label hire an unknown demo producer who did her demos because she liked how they worked together, instead of the more established producers her label president introduced her to.
She does seem to view the world through a lens of conflict which I think is an Se thing. Enemies, threats, etc. A bit of a self-admitted control freak, and she can seem paranoid, although it's not entirely without justification... Is it paranoia to carry wound dressing in your purse when a stalker gets arrested for trying to break into your home every month? Is it paranoia to send a member of her security detail with a locked briefcase containing an ipad with a copy of her song to Ed Sheeran (who she collaborated with) and make him listen with headphones in case the room is bugged to avoid having the song leak when she has had her music leaked previously?
She also has a bit of an obsession with clues, hidden messages and can seem a bit superstitious. Logically, I think she knows horoscopes aren't real, but she does seem to enjoy them. She was born on December 13, and is semi-obsessed with looking for evidence that 13 is not an unlucky number, and is in fact quite lucky, and now she's always trying to release music on the 13th of a month, or on dates that somehow add up to a 13. She also leaves tonnes of clues in her songs, social media posts and music videos for fans that hint at the meaning behind her art or at her future plans.
This person is highly manipulative and her behaviour is overprocessed so her words amount to nothing. Nobody should use them to inform their typing, no honesty. She says what she thinks will fit the female ESE singer stereotype she has in mind. She is no Shania Twain.
- She has ZERO Ne and Si.
- She favors Se humor.
- No Fi. This is one of the reasons why I am discarding LIE and LSE as options here.
- Strong Se over Ni.
- No ability to emote convincingly. She has the rehearsed smile she pulls off quite aceptably and that is it.
it's interesting that her fans call themselves "swifties". it reminds me a little bit of Lady Gaga (another EIE in my opinion). her fans call themselves "little monsters" and she actively interacts with them too.
Taylor shared some of her diary/journal entries from throughout the years in deluxe editions of her albums, which have since been re-posted on social media by her fans. It's probably only about 1% of her entries, but it's still interesting to see what she chose to share. Most of her entries are about being excited about the things she's been experiencing, but there's some moments of reflection as well.
August 14, 2013
Watch Hill, RI
This week, I spent most of my time watching TV, some of it swimming in the pool, a significant amount of time feeling incomplete, then wondering why because I have the life I've always wanted. Then hating myself for feeling any way ungrateful for this mostly perfect life.
But this mostly perfect life can feel a lot like being a tiger in a wildlife enclosure. It's pretty in there, but you can't get out.
It's peculiar to me that after all these years, I still get so anxious when I see a group of people staring, amassed outside my house, pointing, camera phones up... They could never imagine how much that feels like being hunted. And no matter how big my house is or how many albums I sell, I'm still going to be the rabbit. Because the hunters will always outnumber me. The spectators will stand by shaking their heads going "That poor girl."
But the point is, they're still watching. Everyone loves to watch a good hunt.
I worry for my generation and the ones after that because they will never truly experience a moment without attempting to capture it and own it. I am of the generation where you see a beautiful flower growing through the sidewalk, and you pick it. You take it with you to show everyone you know. Whereas I think our ancestors might come upon a beautiful flower and stop and think "wow that is really beautiful".
Nevermind that picking a flower kills it, the same way taking a picture of a moment can ruin it altogether. They need to possess things.
They need photographic proof that they were there. They need to then post that photo online so that their friends can see it. So that they can spend all day checking the comments underneath. That level of possession worries me.
I think EIE. Same vibe I got from EIEs irl.
she seems to be the Don Juan version of an EIE. watching her videos, I'm reminded of a description from golihov on Se as activating function for LIE and EIE
"For these people the most important thing in life is to be rich, powerful, beautiful, successful, skillful. Perceives this as a challenge and ties his self-esteem to such things, so worries a lot about them. If something does not come together, it becomes almost as if a catastrophe. Often likes to dress to catch an eye, brightly, defiantly, as a way to challenge others and prove their own beauty and success. Ruin, old age, lack of social success, ugliness in terms of social standards for such a person can even become a motive for suicide. In passive self-defense they may, on the contrary, cease to monitor the appearance and go unkempt. In general, they tend to believe that a profession one must leave on time, so as not to disgrace themselves. Afraid to look weak and like to present themselves as bold, strong. For this reason they may, for example, engage in martial arts, for "the show", to learn some tricks and dangerous maneuvers and show them off wherever possible, as well as sports. Such a man needs to be constantly taking to new heights and this, strangely enough, is also his weak point. Sometimes, if everything is going smoothly in his life, at some point he can drop everything and go to another town to "start over", thus increasing self-esteem. Very strongly socially conditioned. If someone needs something - then automatically it becomes necessary for him, and he will start trying to get it, too, using any method. What is intended for him and lies within his reach bores him, if he doesn't need to win it over, to conquer it. Hence there may be similar problems in personal relationships, that become a constant race for the unattainable. And as soon as it becomes reachable, then all interest is lost - this is the paradox.To be able to overcome everything and win is the main motive of their activity. The worst thing for them - to lose, this means disgrace. Because of this, do not like to get involved in those businesses where it is too difficult to win. On this function there cannot be any large risks, thus he typically comes up with difficult, even very complex tasks, but that are solvable and achievable. These tasks are most often associated with existing skills, rather than requiring the development of new ones. They need social success, a universal recognition of their victory. Can come up with an unusual way to improve his self-esteem: suddenly fall ill, then go in for heavy treatment, recover, and take this as his own achievement and victory."
This aesthetic style only lasted a year or two from what I can tell, she wrote a song around then about how the fear of the responsibilities of adulthood hit her when she moved out of her parents home, so maybe the interior design was to make it easier to indulge in taking a break from the responsibilities of adulthood when her work day was over?
I'm not sure how much information you can get from a music video where she's very much playing a character, but there is some information from other sources that matches golihov's description.
When she was 15, she wrote a song called "Tied Together With A Smile", which is about a girl who hides her self-esteem issues behind a smile and pretty outward appearance. She claimed the song was about a friend who confessed to her that she was bulimic. However, she did recently reveal that she often had a strict diet to stay skinny, and that she's started to accept that she doesn't have to hate every ounce of fat on her body, and that she feels better that way. To be clear, she still has a slim, athletic build, but there were many periods in the past where she was underweight or close to it, like when she was friends with a lot of runway models. So some people have started to wonder if this was her way of hinting at body image issues (perhaps even eating disorders), and whether she could relate to that "friend" from "Tied Together With A Smile" on a more personal level than she initially let on.
She has a song called "The Moment I Knew" about running away to the bathroom to cry during her birthday party because her boyfriend did not come as promised. So it does seem like she is deeply affected by public humiliation, but she doesn't show it in public. This is also true with the 2009 VMAs incident. Minutes after that happened, she was rushed to change into a different dress and perform "You Belong With Me". The first half of the performance was pre-recorded, but the second half where she runs out of the subway and into the street was not, and she maintained her composure for that performance, even though many inside sources claim that she burst into tears in the change-room (I think that was in between the You Belong With Me performance and the moment when Beyonce invited Taylor to join her on-stage, by which point she had regained her composure).
Katie Couric: "In 10 years [...] where do you see yourself professionally"
Taylor Swift: "I don't want to do this after people get tired of me. I want to know when that line is."
I think she mentioned something similar one or two other times when asked about the future of her professional career, that perhaps she would write for other artists once people got tired of seeing her face.
Although I don't think she flaunts her wealth too much, she usually doesn't wear expensive jewelry and clothes (except when fashion designers pick outfits for her for red carpet events), or drive particularly expensive cars, she does seem quite competitive and like she wants to be seen as successful and talented. I don't think she takes criticism very well, at least public criticism. She has said that she values working with people who will provide constructive criticism, but that's different, since it's done in private and can help her avoid the humiliation of public criticism by improving herself/her art. So I think she is capable of recognizing that she isn't perfect, and therefore of accepting criticism in private, but finds it painful when she is criticized in public in a way that can affect her social standing.
Or perhaps she decided to become a singer when she was still naive enough to think she had a decent chance of success (when she was 11 years old) and her classmates telling her she was stupid to think she could succeed at that gave her added motivation to succeed even when she started to realize how difficult it would be and started to experience some setbacks.
What is Don Juan IEI's sense of humour like? Taylor's sense of humour is quite dry, but can also be a bit self-depreciating.
Last edited by Memph; 09-19-2019 at 01:44 AM.
I thought this statement was extremly interesting. I remember typing Kurt Cobain as EIE and later reading about his suicide note that said: "it's better to burn out than to fade away"
Regarding other posts in this thread, and her sensibility to criticism, I think thats more a result of being a Three than Jungian type.
Anyway, it is hard to untangle the product from the person here and we risk putting people in boxes by quoting stereotypes as defining characteristics instead of the heuristics they are. I am at a loss with her, really. I can even see ENTp as Sol claims, if I squint at it.