IEI-ESE Supervision relations (ESFj & INFp)

[Hermit Soul]

I want to give a personal account of Supervisor/Supervisee relationship that was a deep friendship. I'd love to hear if any of you have had a long relationship based on this intertype. Feel free to also ask questions

One of the greatest benefits of learning socionics it that it allows you to analyze and give clarity to your past relationships. Most of us have had long relationships that are no more.

Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards. - Kierkegaard

I (IEI) met him(ESE) when we were both 12 and our relationship ended at 26. We attended school together from the 7th grade all the way up to our senior year in college. We hung out consistently over the period. Always had classes together - hung out most weekends whether together or with a group. I have many beautiful memories of our relationship - we had many "first" experiences together that you do as you grow up. Our relationship was filled with laughter, honesty, and loyalty.

He had a true devotion to me - cared for me - had loyalty that I never questioned.

I initially started the relationship because he was popular and I had just moved to this new school. I viewed Joe as capable, smart and overall a good guy. One thing I never quite understood was why he was so popular. Overall I felt he was unremarkable but I liked who he was.

At times he would use threat of physical force to make me do something that he wanted throughout the relationship. This started very early in our relationship. About a year after we started hanging out - he physically attacked me - I don't remember why - but I probably said something that ticked him off. I didn't understand why he did but a few days later he apologized to me along with his parents(who I also formed a close relationship with throughout our friendship) and we moved on. At the height of our relationship - even though he had many other friends - he and his Family made it clear how valuable and special they felt our relationship was to him and them. I hung with his parents more then mine over that period at times.

As time went on and we hit the midpoint of our relationship, he then began to always point out whenever I did anything stupid, made a mistake, or would constantly express how I didn't know anything about anything. I got the sense he needed to feel like he was smarter and in a position of power. Not wanting to loose a friend - I submitted to him on this...when he tried control my behavior, I would give in. He would always call me stupid when he could. I didn't care as I always knew I was more intelligent and let him have it and assumed the "dumb" role.

I began to submit because it was clear he wanted to be the "smarter/powerful" one in the relationship. I accepted this and actually increased my stupidity around him because it would make him laugh. What he liked about me was my unpredictability, how I always could make him laugh, and the sense of loyalty to him. I held the "Power" in the relationship for the first half - and he displayed none of this behavior.

I was attracted to his warm friendly demeanor, popularity(he increased my my social hierarchy), and his ability to know when I was in a bad mood and how to make it better.

He made it known that he was more physically capable and that any time he could beat the hell out of me. At times when he wasn't happy with what I was doing or going to do he would initiate with threat of physical force. He also at times would do it when I said something he didn't agree with. Getting close to my face, threatening posture, dead seriousness in his eyes. Although I wasn't afraid of him, when he would threaten violence, I would back off from whatever it was as I knew fighting him would end the relationship.

On the last day of our relationship, I was particularly upset at his verbal abuse that day, and while we we were out with mutual friends I decided to lay in to him. I did it front of a few other people because just before I said it I knew it would be the end. I had wanted to say these things for years. It doesn't matter what I said - but it was truth, honesty about all his flaws, I hit him right where I knew he would MOST HURT. He didn't react and asked me to take a drive to talk. We got in the car and got out in a field.

Before I knew it, he had knocked me out and beat the hell out of me.

I didn't press charges - I knew it was time to move on.

Both of you seemed to be triggering each other. You were triggered by his verbal abuse, while he was triggered by your criticisms of him.
He sounds more like your conflictor than your supervisee. Logical types are more inclined to call someone "stupid" as compared to ethical types.
Ethical types don't really notice how intelligent or stupid someone is, they only noticed how kind or unkind someone is.

[Pydex]

This relationship is classified as dangerous and I was trying to show an example of why. Also, there's plenty of evidence then the supervisee gets abusive physically.

[Pydex]

Definite ESE. His thinking wasnt strong - always stuggled in school. ESE's can be the most emotionally manipulative.

[Rebelondeck]

Definite ESE. His thinking wasnt strong - always stuggled in school. ESE's can be the most emotionally manipulative.

Weak thinking and struggling in school is mostly related to lack of intelligence and emotional instability, both of which are independent of type. All types can be emotionally manipulative but this has more to to with upbringing, personal influences and mental health......

a.k.a. I/O

[ouronis]

Here's an example
https://youtu.be/aQKgpm1SJmQ

[Northstar]

Here's an example
https://youtu.be/aQKgpm1SJmQ

I feel like a few billion brain cells just committed suicide while I was watching this video.

[Adam Strange]

Here's an example
https://youtu.be/aQKgpm1SJmQ

This is funny. I’ve had conversations like this with my IEI cousin, but fortunately, she’s pretty smart and is able to tell the difference between planets, stars, and satellites. If that guy was an ESE, though, I can see why there’s some ESE mockery.

The thing is, I’ve known four ESE’s in real life, and none of them were this insistently dumb.

[persimmonism]

Overall I don't mind their company but I feel forced to restrict my true thoughts because I know they won't get it, so the relationship doesn't progress past a certain point.
Some of them I practically feel discomfort rolling of of them when I'm in the vicinity. Others it's not that way and we get along fine and it's fun. I find it funny when they make these grand, dramatic threats about people they don't like that they would never follow up on.

It gets very Fe-y sometimes-- mid-conversation I suddenly disassociate and feel like I'm stuck inside this laughing body, mouth frozen in an open smile, eyes into crinkles, breathing laughter. and I think to myself wtf am I even doing and saying

[Hope]

Here's an example
https://youtu.be/aQKgpm1SJmQ

terrible. I've seen this happening in my family for several years.

[The Reality Denialist]

I have seen IEI taking the cake when it comes to ignorance of general sort of extrapolative knowledge things.

But supervision. We all have to acknowledge the fact that he is from the Mars. You know general knowledge from somewhere where your moon does not shine.

[Adam Strange]

I have seen IEI taking the cake when it comes to ignorance of general sort of extrapolative knowledge things.

But supervision. We all have to acknowledge the fact that he is from the Mars. You know general knowledge from somewhere where your moon does not shine.

Mars has two moons.

But point taken.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I easily enraged an ESE this morning @Adam Strange. *sigh* I can provoke them so easily and cause them to get so emotional. I suppose LIE can do this to me too in a way.

I wasn't intending to be sadistic, but they always find me sadistic. I actually care about them more than they care about me but I always get 'you don't care about me!' from them with tears down their face. =/ Supervision between two F types is different than a T supervising me though I think. In a way that's even harder/weirder because of T's smug superiority over F even before supervision comes into play. I like when nice LIEs go out of their way a little bit to kind to me because it makes me feel at ease that they're not trying to 'attack.'

[Djinn]

I easily enraged an ESE this morning @Adam Strange. *sigh* I can provoke them so easily and cause them to get so emotional. I suppose LIE can do this to me too in a way.

I wasn't intending to be sadistic, but they always find me sadistic. I actually care about them more than they care about me but I always get 'you don't care about me!' from them with tears down their face. =/ Supervision between two F types is different than a T supervising me though I think. In a way that's even harder/weirder because of T's smug superiority over F even before supervision comes into play. I like when nice LIEs go out of their way a little bit to kind to me because it makes me feel at ease that they're not trying to 'attack.'

I live with 2 ESE and 1 LSE, so I definitely know what that is like. I have learned to be a hermit and politely decline their pleas to get involved in their activities. It feels like they are ready to unite into some ESxj Megazord thing at the drop of a hat and revolt against me if I dare speak my mind about anything in any way they don't understand. However, I have learned how to interact with these types quite well throughout the course of my life. I think...

And my closest friend is an LIE and he is pretty nice to me, but I can tell I annoy him sometimes. He even invited me to play a part in his business endeavors, but uuuuh that is rapidly proving to be a bad idea. Usually when he asks me to do some sort of know-how task he quickly changes his mind and does it himself, haha. Then I just stand there watching him like a deer in the headlights because whatever he does seems like magic to me. Seriously, I am so inept that I once recoiled at his recommendation to use the Pomodoro Technique to study.


Actually.....


maybe I'm just a moron?
That seems possible....

[Adam Strange]

I live with 2 ESE and 1 LSE, so I definitely know what that is like. I have learned to be a hermit and politely decline their pleas to get involved in their activities. It feels like they are ready to unite into some ESxj Megazord thing at the drop of a hat and revolt against me if I dare speak my mind about anything in any way they don't understand. However, I have learned how to interact with these types quite well throughout the course of my life. I think...

And my closest friend is an LIE and he is pretty nice to me, but I can tell I annoy him sometimes. He even invited me to play a part in his business endeavors, but uuuuh that is rapidly proving to be a bad idea. Usually when he asks me to do some sort of know-how task he quickly changes his mind and does it himself, haha. Then I just stand there watching him like a deer in the headlights because whatever he does seems like magic to me. Seriously, I am so inept that I once recoiled at his recommendation to use the Pomodoro Technique to study.


Actually.....


maybe I'm just a moron?
That seems possible....

Your LIE friend's mistake is in not letting you do things your own way. One of the hardest things I had to learn was that most people don't do things the way I do, but if I let them do things their way, they still get things done, and usually in a way which turns out to be better than anything I could have thought of.

One thing Supervisors (in a Socionics sense) need to keep in mind is that their Supervisees, while seeming to be hopeless at the function the Supervisor does best, still seem to survive each day without killing themselves and everyone around them, and they sometimes even prosper.

Now, how could that possibly happen?

This can be hard to understand if you have extreme tunnel-vision.

[Djinn]

Your LIE friend's mistake is in not letting you do things your own way. One of the hardest things I had to learn was that most people don't do things the way I do, but if I let them do things their way, they still get things done, and usually in a way which turns out to be better than anything I could have thought of.

One thing Supervisors (in a Socionics sense) need to keep in mind is that their Supervisees, while seeming to be hopeless at the function the Supervisor does best, still seem to survive each day without killing themselves and everyone around them, and they sometimes even prosper.
Now, how could that possibly happen? It can be hard to understand if you have extreme tunnel-vision.

Exactly. I think it is imperative to accept people's polr not as a weakness, but as a facet of their strengths. Even though the ESxj people I know have dreadful Ni, I realize the world needs them to be that way, and thus they are impeccable as is.

I am struck with awe as I watch my LIE friend persevere through the adversity of his deteriorating well-being to achieve success. He reminds me of the mythical character, Atlas, who holds up the heft of the whole world even as he whittles down to the bone.

And IME, Te polr has allowed me to extract value and understanding from things that other people would so readily dismiss.

The polr doesn't need to be a bad thing and people should realize that.

[Yesein]

I was in a relationship with and lived with an ESE supervisee for 1 and a half years.

Occasionally I would feel the urge to express my honest opinion on the people he chose to surround himself with. I would critique them by saying, they don't do anything, they just live their lives slugging around and getting excited for the next piss up or party, nothing ever meaningful happens in their life, they have nothing insightful to say, you reap what you sow, you need to surround yourself with people who make you grow as a person, and that you look up to in a way, people who are slightly more intelligent or more driven than you are, that push and challenge you to be better.

Now I think of it, that was pretty harsh and unnecessary, but when I was saying it I legitimately thought I was giving him good advice and my honesty should be respected. His IEE friend heard me saying it and later on told his friends what I thought about them. IEE's enjoy publicly humiliating me by repeating awful things I've said, the bastards. My answer: "Well who cares what I think? I'm not even apart of your circle."

We bonded over me channeling his Ti suggestive by explaining a bunch of things to him. I taught him about the ins and outs of nutrition and typology theory and he seemed completely fascinated. "He needs me," I thought. "He appreciates and cares for what I say." (I felt really confident in my Mobilizing after this, but no one responds as well as ESE's do, not even my duals.)
I was also fresh out of isolation when I met the ESE so at the time I gave off more of a nerdy NT vibe.

One thing he found hard to cope with were my dark moods and existential/dramatic reactions. He compared me to Howl from Howl's Moving Castle when he is having a tantrum. LOL. "Life is not worth living if I can't be beautiful."



I triggered his Ni PoLR whenever I imitated different characters. I just randomly start talking in a modified voice and expression when I am bored. He would become extremely agitated and disturbed during these performances and would beg me to stop, sometimes resorting to sporadic Se demo violent outbursts (don't worry, all in good fun)...

You know how Strat describes IEI as getting accustomed to people of all types except SLE doing things for them? "When members of other sociotypes become IEI's partners - the IEI begins to relax them and then freeloads at their expense: "You feel so good with me - why not do some work for me?".
Sometimes I was too lazy to move from the living room so I'd ring the ESE on the phone and say "please come pick me up" and he'd come and carry me to my room. I became very lazy with him around and he did a lot for me. I really enjoyed his Caregiver trait. He helped taking my socks and shoes off when I was tired from a big day. He even did my laundry for me. And kept the house pretty clean. I did the grocery runs and cooked him breakfast, though.

He did frequently consult his friends whenever problems came up in our relationship instead of me, which the description of Supervision mentions. And I agree with the description that whenever he would express a complaint or start an argument over something I'd done, I would think he was overreacting. Every argument we got in I became very frustrated because I didn't think the reason for arguing was worth the psychological discomfort. I also barely argue with people. I am used to relationships where there are no disputes, so I was confused as to why there were so many minor disputes in this one.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

@Yesein

I notice ESEs light up like happy puppies when I give them Ti too, although it's not normally in my nature but if I force myself to be more Ti they respond do it so much better and become kind of like willing lap dogs. I also kind of order them around to do things for me while I sit on my throne. LIEs have treated me the same way before lol supervision can be awful but also great. (If you are the supervisor of course!)

Somebody here made a good point tho I think that u can learn/grow a lot if you listen to your supervisee more. Even though in ways this feels like 'moving backwards' I think it can be helpful. I think this is mostly in the area of vulnerable function vs role function. Your supervisee has 2D role in the area you are weakest against and so you should listen to them in this area.

[Lolita]

I don’t know how IEI will supervise ESE but I want my semi-dual to kick my annoying quasi’s ass. ESE might as well be my contrary. Annoying yippie skippy cheerleaders.