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Thread: Deltas and the concept of "best friends"

  1. #41
    ESTj Tom's Avatar
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    Well: yes, a general answer is better, no, and the difference in Model isn't the reason for the discrepancy.

    Yes, UDP and Ssmall are the only ones who claim to be delta who aren't in my opinion, in this thread. Delta isn't a very popular quadra, unlike gamma and beta.

    A general answer is better, because nitpicking little nuances in what someone has posted is a generally unhelpful process across a medium where you really can't tell very well. This moves into the next question, because what you can tell from someone's typing is focus, which relates to type. But there are a few huge problems with this. First is that the same topics and schools of thought can apply as interesting to most types. Second is that some people get a smattering of what their type should aim at in conversation and try to copy this. This comes off as unnatural and absurd to the eye of the observer, but is hard to tell through what is written. Third, and most important, is that to prove a logic point to someone they have to think with logic, and have the same background inferences as to what elements are represented in what. Most people on this forum have no actual idea of what those are, in my opinion.

    So no, they do not and cannot use functions they don't have. This is true of Model X, and where Augusta is very neutral on the topic, a deluded bunch believe that you can "use" the elements at will, simply by describing something in a manner which sounds like what someone who sees in that way sort of sounds like. It's akin to a person who's been entirely colorblind all their life try to describe the world in color after hearing other people who can see in that way talk about it. Horrid and unbearable to watch; even more insipid to believe.

    The reason for the discrepancy is that Niffweed doesn't understand the functions, but is very nerdy and people assume he is correct. He isn't.
    Wond'ring aloud, How we feel today. Last night sipped the sunset, My hand in her hair. We are our own saviours, As we start both our hearts, Beating life Into each other. ~Ian Anderson

  2. #42
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Danielle! So good to see you again!
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    Slippery when wet Simon Ssmall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom View Post
    Yes, UDP and Ssmall are the only ones who claim to be delta who aren't in my opinion, in this thread. Delta isn't a very popular quadra, unlike gamma and beta.
    To begin with, two people aren't exactly "so many alphas".

    Could, could be not. The reason I am not considering it though is because I never heard it mentioned anywhere until Dolphins thread where she compared pictures and that I never took seriously.

    I don't remember anyone telling me the reasons why I am ENTp or Alpha (as I said, except dolphins picture compares). I personally feel alien to other ENTp's even if I think they are funny where I see a lot of similarity with me and other ENFp's, maybe you view it differently, I certainly have no problem with that. The only person I find interesting/more similar is prolly Vero and even with her I see quite a few differences in character. I don't think I try to appear ENFp either, I post as I see it and is it is and I do raise questions to check if it resonates with other Deltas. Thing is I had quite a few people typing me independently at the beginning and they came to the same conclusion, I had thoughts I could be INFp/ISFp/ENFj, you name it. Why I am writing this is because I am genuinly interested in your reasons for it (if it is not based on VI) so I would appreciate it if you would write it here (by opening a new thread) or in PM, whichever way is more convenient for you.
    Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.

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  4. #44
    ESTj Tom's Avatar
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    Sure I'll open a new thread when I've got the time, which will certainly be by Tuesday, if not before. Fi ENFp isn't so bad of a typing either, tbh, but we can sort it all out there.

    As for UDP, if you're interested, we can do that for you as well. Maybe?
    Wond'ring aloud, How we feel today. Last night sipped the sunset, My hand in her hair. We are our own saviours, As we start both our hearts, Beating life Into each other. ~Ian Anderson

  5. #45
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    Default going on the record about Tom

    Quote Originally Posted by Ssmall View Post
    Why I am writing this is because I am genuinly interested in your reasons for it (if it is not based on VI) so I would appreciate it if you would write it here (by opening a new thread) or in PM, whichever way is more convenient for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom View Post
    Sure I'll open a new thread when I've got the time, which will certainly be by Tuesday, if not before. Fi ENFp isn't so bad of a typing either, tbh, but we can sort it all out there.

    As for UDP, if you're interested, we can do that for you as well. Maybe?
    Hm. I am not genuinely interested in your reasons, as Ssmall is. That is why I've not sought you out in wonder of why you say what you say.

    If you want to discuss socionics some time, as with other people, I'm generally open to that.


    I am not particularly interested in going into a conversation where you intend to educate me about socionics or how I don't understand some things, so if that is what you have in mind, I decline.

    Your understanding of both socionics and me as you have presented them thus far do not inspire me think you have anything particularly valuable or of new insight to me.

    I find your typing of me and subsequent declarations of it to be somewhat naive. You have had little direct contact with me, and when you did, you felt we were both LSEs. Later, you spoke to other people (and apparently became indoctrinated with 'Model X' and other people's takes on socionics), and something changed where you decided it necessary to strongly voice your opinion about my type. I see this as naive, and I don't see you as very serious, because you've put more faith into what other people have said, and then got behind it so much without actually testing things yourself. (In other words, I see you as not particularly focused on actuality, but more concerned with what the "right" ideology is, and then trying to enforce it). But more so, really, is that you don't realize how much the voice of others comes through in what you say. You strike me somewhat as a loud embodiment and supporter of someone else's dogma, and you seem particularly unaware of it. (Also, you seem somewhat content with such being your role).

    The point here is I don't think you're going about things very well, and I don't see how a discussion with you would be fruitful. You don't seem interested in a serious dialogue with me, and your current offer sounds like you'd be willing to, in your eyes, do me a favor by sharing your wisdom.

    In my opinion, if you were serious about discussing socionics with me, you would have done so previously, on your own initiative; as opposed to you making an offer now, a moment where someone is asking you to explain things to him, and then you ask me if I'd like to tag along and be witness to the demonstration of your understanding. If, however, you are serious about discussing socionics, and related, my/our types, then you're welcome to contact me - this is the same general stance I have with everyone. I've already contacted the people I'd like to discuss socionics with. That said, as mentioned, I have not felt the need to or saw value in seeking out your opinion on matters of socionics - and at present I maintain that feeling.

    I do not see a reason to seek you out as your thoughts apparently are nothing new, (and perhaps unbeknownst to you, I've dealt with those thoughts multiple times before, via other people). So, until you demonstrate to me that you have differing thoughts, or unique thoughts, and a particular interest in discussion about socionics, I am not curious about your rationale.

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    Creepy-Diana

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    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Danielle! So good to see you again!

    Hi Minde!!

    Aww Ryu's post was very touching. Sorry about all this.
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    ESTj Tom's Avatar
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    Well I don't recall when I ever thought you were LSE, except when I just took your word for it before I knew you at all or had read many of your posts.

    As to trying to convince you of your type, that doesn't involve lecturing you about what you don't know unless a point comes across in which some background is needed.

    You really don't seem to know much about socionics, but you've said you don't want to hear my opinion, so no more of it will be directed to you.
    Wond'ring aloud, How we feel today. Last night sipped the sunset, My hand in her hair. We are our own saviours, As we start both our hearts, Beating life Into each other. ~Ian Anderson

  9. #49
    i'll tear down the sky Mattie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom View Post
    You really don't seem to know much about socionics, but you've said you don't want to hear my opinion, so no more of it will be directed to you.
    How do you judge this? I'm honestly not trying to pick a fight, but the way you say some things really hits a wrong button with me. I'm honestly open to hearing what you have to say about what we're talking about, because it's not apparent to me what you see.

    Really, what I see you saying is that you have an understanding of things that you feel is correct, and your only real justification for anything is that you trust your logical process. I'm looking for more concrete examples.

    If, for some reason, we seem to be completely missing each other's points for nothing other than semantics or jolted forum conversation, do feel free (and this is open to everyone!) to message me on one of the messengers, I have them all on my profile

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    Default So about that original topic of discussion...

    I find that whether or not people are my best friend is less about my reaction to them and more about their reaction to me. I generally have time for anyone, if I can help someone with something, I will. But the people who treat me the best get more of my time, more effort.

    That said, proximity has a huge lot to do with it. If someone asks for my help and I'm there, I can't say no.

  11. #51
    Slippery when wet Simon Ssmall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom View Post
    Sure I'll open a new thread when I've got the time, which will certainly be by Tuesday, if not before.
    Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.

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  12. #52
    ESTj Tom's Avatar
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    Oh lol its wednesday isn't it.... Umm... you may have to give me a few more days lol
    Wond'ring aloud, How we feel today. Last night sipped the sunset, My hand in her hair. We are our own saviours, As we start both our hearts, Beating life Into each other. ~Ian Anderson

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    EffyCold thePirate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ssmall View Post
    To begin with, two people aren't exactly "so many alphas".

    Could, could be not. The reason I am not considering it though is because I never heard it mentioned anywhere until Dolphins thread where she compared pictures and that I never took seriously.

    I don't remember anyone telling me the reasons why I am ENTp or Alpha (as I said, except dolphins picture compares). I personally feel alien to other ENTp's even if I think they are funny where I see a lot of similarity with me and other ENFp's, maybe you view it differently, I certainly have no problem with that. The only person I find interesting/more similar is prolly Vero and even with her I see quite a few differences in character. I don't think I try to appear ENFp either, I post as I see it and is it is and I do raise questions to check if it resonates with other Deltas. Thing is I had quite a few people typing me independently at the beginning and they came to the same conclusion, I had thoughts I could be INFp/ISFp/ENFj, you name it. Why I am writing this is because I am genuinly interested in your reasons for it (if it is not based on VI) so I would appreciate it if you would write it here (by opening a new thread) or in PM, whichever way is more convenient for you.
    Yeah, I get people saying I'm other types too, but never a solid reasoning for it.

    Maybe one half assed attempt.
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

  14. #54
    Slippery when wet Simon Ssmall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom View Post
    Oh lol its wednesday isn't it.... Umm... you may have to give me a few more days lol
    Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.

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    You should try PMing him, it's a bit more direct than waiting in this forum for a response.

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    Slippery when wet Simon Ssmall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    You should try PMing him, it's a bit more direct than waiting in this forum for a response.
    I think I am annoying enough already . So I'll leave it at that.
    Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.

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    This is an interesting thread because I have definitely noticed this before. I think the concept of having a best friend is very attractive to deltas. Most (if not all) of the deltas I have known will say they have a "best friend" or will categorize people as either acquaintances, good friends, very good friends, etc. I dated an ESTj who had several different categories for all the people in his life. Usually deltas will openly express these categories to their close friends so that their friends know how important they are. I definitely believe in the concept of having a best friend, although its not very easy to find such a person.

    ~an INFj

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    I do believe in best friends, and I have several people I would put in this spot. I have a lot of people in my circle who I'm friendly with, quite a few friends but very few close friends. Some people will never get to the top of the heap, because of lack of connection. It's partially my fault too because I'm awkward with that. Perhaps one or two people would be at "best friend" level and there are a few others who are right being them. I don't usually verbalize my friend order to others, I keep it in my head.

    I've had some people try to get from the level of stranger/acquaintance to best friend and that's not how it works with me. When people try too hard to soon, my instinct is to push them away, because best friendships often take time. Positivity is great but there is such a thing as being too friendly and lacking any sort of boundaries. Part of being my friend is accepting that I prefer relationships, even on the platonic level, to move at a slower pace.

    There are rare occasions when someone has a common interest, and we become quick friends by the level of closeness takes a lot of time.
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  19. #59
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    Mb its related to instinctual stackings too. About OP this can be also related to SLI/EII relationship (like in Strat description).

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    Yes, there is a sort of hierarchy in my relationship to people depending on the individual. Is this not what Fi is all about?

    Though personally, I am uncomfortable assigning one particular friend the 'best friend'. I tend to value all my close circle of friends in different ways; the circle which I speak of is a rather small one.

    Also, I don't think this is limited to just Delta or Gamma, but these two quadras are the most comfortable discussing this kind of thing and want it to be explicit. Where as Alpha and Beta rather have it expressed implicitly (via Fe, perhaps?).

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