are there easy ways to tell if someone is sx-last?
Instinct stackings: sx-last
are there easy ways to tell if someone is sx-last?
IEI-Fe 4w3
yeah. interesting. you're sx-last! I know another 9w1 (SEI) who is sx-last and I'm thinking that this SLE I know who is 7w8 is also probably sx-last but I can't tell for sure. I think he does need space, regardless of how things are going. I know he got married later in life (well, if you consider 33 later) and seems to know everyone in our social circle but it's not exactly clear if he has many really close friends. But then I think that not many men do.Originally Posted by Isha
IEI-Fe 4w3
all girls have close friends
yeah pretty much.all girls have close friends
IEI-Fe 4w3
but I was just thinking about the "needing space" thing and realized that I need space too! Plenty of it. hmmm. And I really don't think I'm sx-last.
IEI-Fe 4w3
Actually, I can attest to this to a certain extent. Except for me I tend to be socially-oriented. A veritable social butterfly if you will. But I get claustrophobic of intimate space. I struggle to develop close relationships because if people get too close too quickly I start pushing away in a need to protect my intimate space.
BP is also so/sp and he's expressed similar sentiments. We call it Scorched Earth policy. Social Social Social - INTIMATE!!! - Nuke everything.
ILE
7w8 so/sp
Very busy with work. Only kind of around.
that is for sure true about me.
Hmmm. well, the SEI 9 I know holds everyone at arm's length, just as you describe. But the SLE 7 does not. Yet I feel like he's very in tune with his social standing and concerned about that. Maybe he's so/sx... he does seem to revel in intensity and intense experiences.
IEI-Fe 4w3
ok, after re-reading the descriptions at oceansmoonshine site, I think the SLE I'm thinking of is sp/so. It fits him pretty well. Plus, upon further thought, I feel like he's pretty distrustful of people at first. It takes awhile for anyone to kind of break through that barrier and in most cases, he doesn't care if they do or not. It's the sort of thing where, if it's not easy, he's not going to bother with it.
IEI-Fe 4w3
IEI-Fe 4w3
Yes, I call it my fortress. I have an internal fortress of personal trust, intimacy and closeness. There are many walls surrounding it, and it takes time and patience to work your way through all the layers. I will come out of my fortress and party, but to come to my house it takes a lot of work. If you get inside some of the deeper walls and betray my trust in any way (one time a guy was very close to me and he lied to me about something arbitrary. It was stupid and there was no reason to lie about it, so I felt that betrayal very closely and implemented Scorched Earth on his ass, lol) I will react pretty violently (in general, not physical). Additionally, if I feel like someone is FORCING their way into the fortress, Scorched Earth happens.
ILE
7w8 so/sp
Very busy with work. Only kind of around.
I'm pretty sure I'm sx last. Intimate relationships never have played a pivotal role in my life. I tend to think the whole marriage thing is overrated. Sex too for that matter but I know the sx instinct is not just about sex. I'm torn between the sp/so and the so/sp stackings for myself.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
*chuckles* I also have a building analogy. I'm more like a casino though. Every one is welcome to come in, play some games have a great time. It's a lot of fun. But only the people who cheat and cause problems get to go to the back room. You don't wanna know what happens in the back room.
Last edited by JWC3; 07-10-2009 at 03:40 PM.
Easy Day
Oh, Joe likes it in the back!
BnD!! SAM! SAMMY!!! We have a new dual for you!
ILE
7w8 so/sp
Very busy with work. Only kind of around.
IEI-Fe 4w3
rotfl!
IEI-Fe 4w3
However if you do indeed want to know what happens in the backroom. It's not like normal casinos where they beat the crap outta ya. Instead the cheaters and problem causers get recruited into this sorta elite team of hoodlums who help me rain mayhem upon civilization. This team is closer than family and I keep nothing from them and them nothing from me. More importantly once you get into the backroom unless you are forced out by security you are a lifetime member, like it or not.
Yeah... Herzy's Avatar has such a hot back... it turns me on.
Easy Day
awesome.
IEI-Fe 4w3
Yeah, you may be wondering "Why on earth would I not want to know that?" The main reason being that back room is also where I have all my... just really kinky nasty sex.... just weird stuff... only when the team isn't around, mind you... it gets freaky... yeah... I guess on those occasions the back room actually is sorta more similar to it's RL counterpart... *shrugs*awesome.
Also word to the wise, if your going use handcuffs for... well... anything *wink wink* Your gunna want to go ahead and go the full nine yards and buy police grade. The fuzzy pink kind are not near as durable as popular media makes them out to be. I mean yeah there are pros to the fuzzy pink ones, like more comfort and they don't leave marks on your wrists but honestly, if your using handcuffs is it really about comfort? Besides that if the marks become an issue just wear a long sleeved shirt. It's not that hard. Trust me once you have a moment ruined by shitty handcuffs you won't mind long sleeves so much.
Last edited by JWC3; 07-10-2009 at 04:13 PM.
Easy Day
IEI-Fe 4w3
Yea I can actually relate to this a lot. I don't open up easy (really in any sort of way but especially in relationships). If you betray me then your out of the fortress forever lol. And I hate when people try to get to know me too fast or upon meeting them they focus their attention on me too much. It makes me feel very uncomfortable and want to avoid them. Basically my way of forming relationships always starts with being friends first and working slowly.
“No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov
http://kevan.org/johari?name=Bardia0
http://kevan.org/nohari?name=Bardia0
the friend zone??
IEI-Fe 4w3
Or you date a guy who's going into the RCMP. So much more proficient with said handcuffs, lol. Very hot.
ILE
7w8 so/sp
Very busy with work. Only kind of around.
they don't liek to ev sechs
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I guess but I don't even really consider myself to have a friend zone. I consider you my friend whether there is potential for more or not. That or I just dislike you and you get in the I would rather avoid you zone. But really how I feel about someone can change. I can not be attracted to a friend and then develop an attraction to them. So the whole idea of a friend zone doesn't make sense to me.the friend zone??
“No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov
http://kevan.org/johari?name=Bardia0
http://kevan.org/nohari?name=Bardia0
yeah I feel the same, really.
IEI-Fe 4w3
People who have sx last tend to piss me off.
fuck sp.
The end is nigh
I agree, if its just friendships we're talking about and not intimate relationships. I'm the type of person who will "friend" almost everyone on Facebook and the like that asks me to. As long as you are not a spammer or a jerk, you're in. I have Facebook 'friends' that I've only met once or twice in person and some with whom I've chatted only a few times online with and I'm perfectly okay with that.
I have a colleague with whom I've had some interesting conversations with at work. He's not a close friend but I know him reasonably well. I stumble upon his name on Facebook and I ask him if he wants to friend me. A couple days later, I see him at work and he turns down the request, saying he only reserves the friend status for people he knows well. Apparently, I haven't crossed his "friend line." I was a bit surprised, because I was sure he'd say yes. I've asked people I've known less well to friend me and about 90% of them have said yes.
I wonder if this "friend line" thing is merry/serious dichotomy related, with merry types (valuers) less prone to having the friend line than serious types (
valuers).
I'm not sure of the coworker's sociotype, but I think he's
When it comes to intimate relationships, then there is definitely a friend line. Recently when I was working in the LIIbrary, I had a patron with whom I was having a seemingly casual conversation with and then all of sudden he wants to know if I'm married or single. Then he asks me out. We've been talking for less than 5 minutes total. I tell him, "No, because I barely know you." To me, it just doesn't feel right to talk for that short of a period of time and decide you want to date this person. I would only feel comfortable accepting a date, if the conversation progressed much more gradually and we knew each other for a significantly longer time and knew more details about each other.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
Hmm, I definitely have the Facebook friendLine.I wonder if this "friend line" thing is merry/serious dichotomy related, with merry types (
Enneagram maybe? I guess I'm primarily worried about appearing to be "too much" of a showoff, that and I don't want to have to mitigate my weirdspam.
As far as facebook goes, I will add most people that I have met even once so as to not be rude. Every once in a while though I go through and delete people that I never made any sort of friendship with and don't see myself needing to be friends with. Somehow some of them manage to figure it out and then add me back a week later or something. Damn you friend recommender!I agree, if its just friendships we're talking about and not intimate relationships. I'm the type of person who will "friend" almost everyone on Facebook and the like that asks me to. As long as you are not a spammer or a jerk, you're in. I have Facebook 'friends' that I've only met once or twice in person and some with whom I've chatted only a few times online with and I'm perfectly okay with that.
I have a colleague with whom I've had some interesting conversations with at work. He's not a close friend but I know him reasonably well. I stumble upon his name on Facebook and I ask him if he wants to friend me. A couple days later, I see him at work and he turns down the request, saying he only reserves the friend status for people he knows well. Apparently, I haven't crossed his "friend line." I was a bit surprised, because I was sure he'd say yes. I've asked people I've known less well to friend me and about 90% of them have said yes.
I wonder if this "friend line" thing is merry/serious dichotomy related, with merry types (
Well yea I would reject them too. I wouldn't even consider them a friend but put them into the I would rather avoid zone lol. But can't someone change from being an actual friend to a romantic interest?
“No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov
http://kevan.org/johari?name=Bardia0
http://kevan.org/nohari?name=Bardia0
I guess this is true to a degree. Although, I know I need a lot of space in general.
With sx-lasts, it feels more like I can't activate them inside to the degree I want. There isn't so much a detachment or personal barrier, because openness and such isn't dependent on instinct. But it feels like their energy (on a more internal level) is spread out and evenly distributed, which isn't conducive to the more concentrated manner in which I desire to feel it (from them).
sx-secondaries feel more open to this kind of energy relation, but overall too unfocused in the way they go about it for a feeling of complete activation.
Instinct compatibility is best with identicals IMO
Yeah. Conversely, sx/sp is conflicted between a drive towards intimacy and a secondary need to maintain resources/environment/personal stasis. So... the intimacy drive often seeps into their environmental/bodily awareness, rendering whatever connection/charge/intensity that is sought after/gained a fairly self-contained one (as opposed to the groundless and expansive sx/so pursuit).sp/sx, as I understand it, is conflicted between the need for space and the need for intimacy.
4w3-5w6-8w7
Hm. This is exactly what I feel from the SEI I know. And yet because I'm sp-first also, there is a strong sense in which I relate to him but it's like I want to occasionally feel some intensity or some stronger charge that he diffuses. Whenever (in the past) I would try to inject any of that, he would either ignore it or stand his ground and allow it to wash over him.
With the SLE-7 I'm thinking of, it's different. First of all, his general energy level is SO much higher than either mine or the SEI, it's laughable. But I get what you're saying about that energy being spread out more evenly. yes I think that's so. He spends a lot of it on his social connections that aren't very deep but they're wide (which I absolutely don't care about). And all the sp-stuff is a focus as well. His view seems to be that close relationships are great if they come along but they're not necessary to living and achieving and making plans in one's life. He does enjoy intense experiences but he seems more okay than I am with enjoying them alone. Friends seem fun and cool if the friendships develop naturally but I rarely see him expending much energy pursuing them (well, he's done a pretty good job with our friendship actually so I give him points for that, lol). He does seem open and responsive to our connection. But at the same time, he doesn't make much of it. It may even be rare for him to have that sort of closeness with someone but I don't think he needs it. He sees it more as a unique and cool valuable! Like "look what I found! wow, that is cool! I'll put it on my shelf!" and then walks away for a hamburger and donut. Or something.
I'm not sure I know any other sp/sx people other than possibly the rest of my immediate family (now that I think about it, they are probably all sp/sx).Instinct compatibility is best with identicals IMO
* by "immediate family", I mean my family of origin--my mom, dad and brother. My husband is sp/so and I dunno what my kids are. Probably two of them are sp/sx and one is sp/so.
Last edited by redbaron; 07-11-2009 at 06:38 PM. Reason: adding
IEI-Fe 4w3
I don't worry so much about getting spam on Facebook. With Twitter its more of an issue because you can have some random person follow you without your knowing it. Once in a while I have to go through my followers list and block a couple I suspect of being spammers.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
This sounds plausibly related to sx, but I also know there's a distinct way betas attempt to incite others, which sometimes falls flat on alphas (i.e. there's an Fe dynamic, but they don't 'get' the Se pulsations).Hm. This is exactly what I feel from the SEI I know. And yet because I'm sp-first also, there is a strong sense in which I relate to him but it's like I want to occasionally feel some intensity or some stronger charge that he diffuses. Whenever (in the past) I would try to inject any of that, he would either ignore it or stand his ground and allow it to wash over him.
But the general theme still stands. With sx primary individuals, I feel more unrestrained in a way, because I know that they will respond with the same internal concentration to something that I am 'pushing' for.
That makes sense.With the SLE-7 I'm thinking of, it's different. First of all, his general energy level is SO much higher than either mine or the SEI, it's laughable. But I get what you're saying about that energy being spread out more evenly. yes I think that's so. He spends a lot of it on his social connections that aren't very deep but they're wide (which I absolutely don't care about). And all the sp-stuff is a focus as well. His view seems to be that close relationships are great if they come along but they're not necessary to living and achieving and making plans in one's life. He does enjoy intense experiences but he seems more okay than I am with enjoying them alone. Friends seem fun and cool if the friendships develop naturally but I rarely see him expending much energy pursuing them (well, he's done a pretty good job with our friendship actually so I give him points for that, lol). He does seem open and responsive to our connection. But at the same time, he doesn't make much of it. It may even be rare for him to have that sort of closeness with someone but I don't think he needs it. He sees it more as a unique and cool valuable! Like "look what I found! wow, that is cool! I'll put it on my shelf!" and then walks away for a hamburger and donut. Or something.
Just to note, the idea of intimacy, as it pertains to sx, manifests in all realms, not just relationships. Like... some sx/sp's may not seem the most intimacy-driven (and other factors can affect relationship orientation), yet still find it in other ways.
Interesting. Everyone in my immediate family is so-primary, except for my step-mom (sp/so) and youngest sister (sx something).I'm not sure I know any other sp/sx people other than possibly the rest of my immediate family (now that I think about it, they are probably all sp/sx).
* by "immediate family", I mean my family of origin--my mom, dad and brother. My husband is sp/so and I dunno what my kids are. Probably two of them are sp/sx and one is sp/so.
4w3-5w6-8w7
I had the same thought later--that it might not be due to sx but rather just a beta-alpha thing.
So do you think that needing to feel thrills in life and have intense experiences is a manifestation of the sx-instinct? Can you give examples of ways it manifests in other realms?Just to note, the idea of intimacy, as it pertains to sx, manifests in all realms, not just relationships. Like... some sx/sp's may not seem the most intimacy-driven (and other factors can affect relationship orientation), yet still find it in other ways.
IEI-Fe 4w3
I do think there's an aspect of sx that lends itself more to "intense" experiences than other instincts would, but it's not a general trend I like to note often, due to its connotations.
Like... when someone thinks they're sx because of how grr intense they are and need all this intimacy and novelty... they probably aren't. Although, such drives will usually make sense in the context of a real sx person without them needing to demonstrate much.
So... a drive for 'intimacy' in general basically means that the individual is searching for something outside of themselves to fully connect with. Activities are done with this in mind, so it could be as simple as becoming intensively entrenched in a book for hours, to an intimate encounter with another individual. I mean, most people with a spine seek intensity and new experiences; it's more about the energy and fixation behind it with sx'ers (feeling of transience, establishment of singular connection to escape this).
4w3-5w6-8w7
I PMed the admin of an enneagram forum (http://typewatch.net/) a video of myself once without telling him it was me. He replied with the type he thought I was and also described some things that he thought were instinct related:
“The eyes remind me of this person in the list...7w6 sx/sp Kate Moss...so sx/sp wouldn't surprise me. The eyes communicate a lot of emotion...so the sx is up there. Another thing I notice is the person is protruding forward. The stronger the sx...the more the person "jumps out" of the reserved posture you see in sx-lasts...face close to the camera...or using the arm as a swivel...etc. sx/sps are the most direct in this sense...sx/sos are more diffuse and crazed...less of a solemn looking straight at just you vibe. Maybe sp/sx with strong sx second...sp/sxs are more chill though.”
I don't know how valid it is, but he contrasts sx-first to sx-last a bit, so maybe it can help you?
edit:
This is good too.
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
I think his description highlights the respectively contrasting energy levels described in this thread. And it's interesting, because they're not levels in the sense that most people think of (i.e. a gradient, with high/low being based on relative activity/passivity), but rather, more self-contained things that manifest regardless of how lively, tired, etc. a person is.
sx-primaries will always have a 'pushing toward' energy about them IMO -- it's part of the polarizing attraction/repulsion manner of going about things. Like, I'll always feel this pulsating awareness of my 'state' as it relates to my environment and the various things in it. By focusing energy on any given thing, a reaction will occur, which I will register in order to 're-shift' the state -- for better or worse. Everything occurs like that, and it feels like a constant throbbing of stimuli that can be pursued, pushed, discarded, whatever.
sx-lasts are the opposite: they have this spread-out shell of energy around them, it seems. So... whatever stimuli that is registered, is done so in a more broadly filtered way, because the affection of internal state is the last priority.
That's kind of where the aforementioned discord in interaction can come from.
4w3-5w6-8w7
This is probably true. And I have also heard people say that sx-primaries seem invasive of personal space, in that sense.
This makes a lot of sense. And yeah, there isn't necessarily a lacking desire for intensity; it's just sought after as it relates to the more prominent needs of self-maintenance, etc.I think this is good. I can speak less for so/sp, but I think sp/so is really looking for something inside themselves -- their own peace, stability, security, independence, place in life, etc.. It doesn't mean that we don't want to have others in our lives, to share our inner worlds or seek out intense experiences (heh), but we're really kind of self-oriented and don't really respond to attempts to "intensify" things as much as we respond to our personal circumstances (etc.). That sounds a bit selfish, perhaps. "Our" personal circumstances can include those of our loved ones, too, even if we don't seem to be as "into" you as you might like us to be.
So... I wouldn't expect an sx-last to just 'engage' in something, right there, for the immediate charge it generated, because it wouldn't be relevant in that manner to them (escaping transience). I kind of admire them in that way -- that they don't need as much on such a consistent basis, and can maintain their overall self-regulation better.
4w3-5w6-8w7
Oh thanks everyone! Wow, this is all really helpful.
I think, based on all of this, that my SLE friend is sx-last. Probably sp/so.
IEI-Fe 4w3
Sx last gives you people like me and Expat.
Wond'ring aloud, How we feel today. Last night sipped the sunset, My hand in her hair. We are our own saviours, As we start both our hearts, Beating life Into each other. ~Ian Anderson
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