Romancing styles: Victim-Aggressor interactions

**redbaron** · 07-08-2009, 01:30 PM

victim: drops some random comment about tears in an email
aggressor: asks directly what the tears were about
victim: says she can't explain but she'll be fine
aggressor: later that week clearly pokes around for the answer
victim: hints but doesn't come out with it. changes the subject.
aggressor: following week asks again what it is and takes a stab at it, talking about his own related experience
victim: thinks this is cute and tells him what it's generally about but with no details. changes the subject.
aggressor: 20 minutes later says he's sorry if it's none of his business but he cares, and continues talking about it.
victim: very quiet, unsure
aggressor: talks more about his own experience and offers a shot at advice
victim: finally opens up, knowing he must care about her to keep pestering!

**JWC3** · 07-08-2009, 02:43 PM

I wish every one was like that victim. Cause srsly after like the 4th or 5th week if you don't finally open up I just stop caring, most likely about the person altogether. If you don't trust me enough to eventually tell me this shit then go to hell I can find someone who does.

**redbaron** · 07-08-2009, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by JWC3

I wish every one was like that victim. Cause srsly after like the 4th or 5th week if you don't finally open up I just stop caring, most likely about the person altogether. If you don't trust me enough to eventually tell me this shit then go to hell I can find someone who does.

In that example, the victim totally trusted the aggressor--it wasn't about trust, it was somewhat about the ability to correctly articulate what was going on in her head and also, at first, not being sure he really wanted to hear it. but then obviously with all of the prodding, she knew he did care.

**JWC3** · 07-08-2009, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by redbaron

In that example, the victim totally trusted the aggressor--it wasn't about trust, it was somewhat about the ability to correctly articulate what was going on in her head and also, at first, not being sure he really wanted to hear it. but then obviously with all of the prodding, she knew he did care.

*grumbles* Fine! *kicks the dirt* I'll go be angsty and emotional some place else...

**redbaron** · 07-08-2009, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by JWC3

*grumbles* Fine! *kicks the dirt* I'll go be angsty and emotional some place else...

awwww, it's okay... you can stay in my thread.:wink:

**JWC3** · 07-08-2009, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by redbaron

awwww, it's okay... you can stay in my thread.:wink:

*his lower lips quivers* It's just that... it's just... *sniff sniff* Why can't everyone be a victim? *a tear rolls down his cheek*

**Wynch** · 07-08-2009, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by JWC3

*his lower lips quivers* It's just that... it's just... *sniff sniff* Why can't everyone be a victim? *a tear rolls down his cheek*

Joe, can we be pals? I think if I knew you IRL we would be hilarious friends.

Also, for the OP:

I recently had a similar conversation with a victim and instead of persisting I was kind of like "Well if you can't tell me I'll just distract you from the original problem and give you general support". I assume that if they can't tell me there's a reason for it, so I don't bother persisting.

**JWC3** · 07-08-2009, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by mn0good

Joe, can we be pals? I think if I knew you IRL we would be hilarious friends.

YES!

Do you wanna go practice karate in the forums' garage?!

**redbaron** · 07-08-2009, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by mn0good

Joe, can we be pals? I think if I knew you IRL we would be hilarious friends.

Also, for the OP:

I recently had a similar conversation with a victim and instead of persisting I was kind of like "Well if you can't tell me I'll just distract you from the original problem and give you general support". I assume that if they can't tell me there's a reason for it, so I don't bother persisting.

Well, distracting is okay

. Distracting can be endearing and helpful in the moment but ultimately not as satisfying to me. The other thing is, along with the persistence of this aggressor was the sense of him being willing to hear and face what it was I had to say and take me seriously. And not just being willing but actually wanting or needing to hear it. There are certain types/people who shy away from too much seriousness or honesty. Like they're almost not even able to listen. Or if they do, they offer up a generalized solution to the problem and then move on. I once opened up to an SEI and got the strangest look. I hadn't even said anything that negative, it was more a philosophical rumination on life and my past. But it was clear I had hit a brick wall there.

(it's okay. I love SEIs) I like the way in which aggressors (some anyway) are willing to dig into the problem and face it head-on with the attitude "let's solve this" but not in a cursory way at all. It's most incredible. (blatant Se-loving, I know.)

**Wynch** · 07-08-2009, 05:03 PM

I'm a skinny-assed chick who knows nothing about karate, but I'm good at pretending.

I'm thinking we could also start a garage band. Maybe we could call ourselves T.I. Joe.

**JWC3** · 07-08-2009, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by mn0good

I'm a skinny-assed chick who knows nothing about karate, but I'm good at pretending.

I'm thinking we could also start a garage band. Maybe we could call ourselves T.I. Joe.

What's the T.I. Stand for?

**Wynch** · 07-08-2009, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by JWC3

What's the T.I. Stand for?

I was going to just put that the band should be Ti Joe, but I wasn't sure you would get the G.I. Joe reference. I wanted to make it clear that our band was going to be totally badass.

**JWC3** · 07-08-2009, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by mn0good

I was going to just put that the band should be Ti Joe, but I wasn't sure you would get the G.I. Joe reference. I wanted to make it clear that our band was going to be totally badass.

There is no emoticon that can describe the laughter that I just experienced. That being said... DIBS ON COWBELL PLAYER!

**Wynch** · 07-08-2009, 05:19 PM

We should start a new fad:

Two-man band. Cowbell and vocals only. Cut out all the bullshit parts of the band.

If anyone has a problem with it, we'll throw a grenade at them.

**JWC3** · 07-08-2009, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by mn0good

We should start a new fad:

Two-man band. Cowbell and vocals only. Cut out all the bullshit parts of the band.

If anyone has a problem with it, we'll throw a grenade at them.

That's a great... no. A phenomenal idea, however I have one small tiny itsy bitsy question... Can we pull the pin first? PLEEAAAAAAAASE?

**Wynch** · 07-08-2009, 05:33 PM

It's not badass unless you pull the pin. We'll make sure our music is the last thing they hear.

**JWC3** · 07-08-2009, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by mn0good

It's not badass unless you pull the pin. We'll make sure our music is the last thing they hear.

YEAH! *funky dances* EPIC WIN!

EDIT: We should call our first song "The Benefits of Joining the Darkside" Which of course would be a chart topper in the US and Canada but sadly only reach mediocre popularity in the UK.

Creepy- · 07-08-2009, 06:39 PM

Redbaron, this is a great example of a victim and aggressor interacting irl; I like this in particular bc it shows Se being used in a way that is not RAH RAH, BAR FIGHT!!-ish. Se can definitely be used to draw others out and show caring

**redbaron** · 07-08-2009, 07:15 PM

thanks, song! and I love your avatar, btw.

**smilodon** · 07-09-2009, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by mn0good

I recently had a similar conversation with a victim and instead of persisting I was kind of like "Well if you can't tell me I'll just distract you from the original problem and give you general support". I assume that if they can't tell me there's a reason for it, so I don't bother persisting.

I once told an LII(infantile) ex that there would be somethings that I wouldn't tell her unless she applied pressure and chased it a little; her response was a classic:

Originally Posted by wikisocion

Infantiles see Victims as paranoid and confusing, sending mixed signals.

**idolatrie** · 07-10-2009, 01:15 AM

Originally Posted by redbaron

victim: drops some random comment about tears in an email
aggressor: asks directly what the tears were about
victim: says she can't explain but she'll be fine
aggressor: later that week clearly pokes around for the answer
victim: hints but doesn't come out with it. changes the subject.
aggressor: following week asks again what it is and takes a stab at it, talking about his own related experience
victim: thinks this is cute and tells him what it's generally about but with no details. changes the subject.
aggressor: 20 minutes later says he's sorry if it's none of his business but he cares, and continues talking about it.
victim: very quiet, unsure
aggressor: talks more about his own experience and offers a shot at advice
victim: finally opens up, knowing he must care about her to keep pestering!

This pretty much exactly happened with other aggressors for me (beta STs only though), except that instead of the process occuring over weeks, we went through it all in about one hour (and a few beers). And we both did it (both roles) to each other, lol.

**redbaron** · 07-10-2009, 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by idolatrie

This pretty much exactly happened with other aggressors for me (beta STs only though), except that instead of the process occuring over weeks, we went through it all in about one hour (and a few beers). And we both did it (both roles) to each other, lol.

funny!

**FDG** · 07-10-2009, 05:55 PM

Uhm. Sounds more like ExTx-IxFx tbh.

**redbaron** · 07-10-2009, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by FDG

Uhm. Sounds more like ExTx-IxFx tbh.

well, it was. I just wasn't sure to what extent it might apply to other victim-aggressors. I could see it applying to INTp-ESFp actually as I know two sets of those couples. I'll bet it could also apply to ENFj-ISTj.

**enigmadream** · 07-12-2009, 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by redbaron

victim: drops some random comment about tears in an email
aggressor: asks directly what the tears were about
victim: says she can't explain but she'll be fine
aggressor: later that week clearly pokes around for the answer
victim: hints but doesn't come out with it. changes the subject.
aggressor: following week asks again what it is and takes a stab at it, talking about his own related experience
victim: thinks this is cute and tells him what it's generally about but with no details. changes the subject.
aggressor: 20 minutes later says he's sorry if it's none of his business but he cares, and continues talking about it.
victim: very quiet, unsure
aggressor: talks more about his own experience and offers a shot at advice
victim: finally opens up, knowing he must care about her to keep pestering!

aggressors and

SLEs the most.

**Azeroffs** · 07-22-2009, 08:08 AM

I'd say it's more beta.
Gammas are more about victims being unsure of where they stand and aggressives being very clear about how they feel. Not much of the emotional abstractness of Ni + Fe and conquest of Se + Ti. In relationships and in general, gammas know what they like(Se + Fi) and want to make things happen quickly and efficiently(Ni + Te) so it's about being straight forward.

**Satan** · 07-22-2009, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by JWC3

*his lower lips quivers* It's just that... it's just... *sniff sniff* Why can't everyone be a victim? *a tear rolls down his cheek*

are you gay or something, what's with the emo dance

**Warlord** · 07-22-2009, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Azeroffs

Gammas are more about victims being unsure of where they stand and aggressives being very clear about how they feel. Not much of the emotional abstractness of Ni + Fe and conquest of Se + Ti. In relationships and in general, gammas know what they like(Se + Fi) and want to make things happen quickly and efficiently(Ni + Te) so it's about being straight forward.

Exactly.

The thing is that (unlike most guys apparently

) I actually think women have a will of their own

And I'm waiting for them to express it to me in a clear manner. And I don't think there's anything I can do to change their will, because mine can't be changed either.

**JWC3** · 07-22-2009, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by mercutio

are you gay or something, what's with the emo dance

You know some day I'm going to get a nickle for every time some one has inquired as to my sexuality and when that day comes, I'm not sharing any nickles with you.

**redbaron** · 07-22-2009, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by mercutio

are you gay or something, what's with the emo dance

he might be ESFp....

**JWC3** · 07-22-2009, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by redbaron

he might be ESFp....

**Bardia** · 07-22-2009, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by redbaron

he might be ESFp....

Or ENTp

**Satan** · 07-23-2009, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by JWC3

You know some day I'm going to get a nickle for every time some one has inquired as to my sexuality and when that day comes, I'm not sharing any nickles with you.

i don't need your spare change, you fucking miser

**JWC3** · 07-23-2009, 03:44 AM

Originally Posted by mercutio

i don't need your spare change, you fucking miser

*shrugs* Your loss sweet cheeks

**stanprollyright** · 07-23-2009, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by JWC3

You know some day I'm going to get a nickle for every time some one has inquired as to my sexuality and when that day comes, I'm not sharing any nickles with you.

Hey, can I have some of your nickels? Because I'm pretty sure you got some of them because of me :tongue:

**JWC3** · 07-23-2009, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by stanprollyright

Hey, can I have some of your nickels? Because I'm pretty sure you got some of them because of me :tongue:

*chuckles* Dude what's mine is yours.

**iAnnAu** · 07-24-2009, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by JWC3

*chuckles* Dude what's mine is yours.

(obligatory)

GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY .....

**stanprollyright** · 07-24-2009, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by iAnnAu

(obligatory)

GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY .....

YAY NICKEL!!!

**JWC3** · 07-25-2009, 03:57 AM

Originally Posted by iAnnAu

(obligatory)

GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY .....

*chuckles* FULL blown, complete and unadulterated: gay.

**wilma** · 07-26-2009, 02:12 AM

it is true what has been said here that it is the victim who is weak and wants for the strong agressor to take over, yes or not?? seems like not being balanced to me and i also am thinking if i may be victim but me, i do not thing i am weak

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