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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderland View Post
    I can see how Ni could be experienced as a "mood" in itself while having nothing to do with moods. I can't "show" it though.
    It's ok I know what you mean. I was just not sure how Reinin meant it at first. The Ni summary does align with Jung's description as well.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    If that would be the case, than most people would be adept at Fi, but many of them aren't. I do not agree with you, I believe I was born with the capacity of a innate moral compass, which obviously had to be developed, but it would have developed even when it would have met counter forces (and it did). I have one brother who also has the same moral compass and developed it against all odds. Another brother of mine doesn't have such a compass, but is receptive to such information from his dual wife and leads a stable life. Then I had another brother, who lacked a moral compass, and developed into a drugs criminal and a womanizer, screwing every woman who was willing to spread her legs for him (and an astounding number of women did). He died last year from a cerebral haemorrhage, all alone, drenched in his own blood before he was found three days after he probably died.
    Would you say she was using role function in some form there according to this? That is if you agree with the summary at all.

    - Subjective logic. It is my own logic, my understanding, explanation, description,
    concept, and theory of things. It is my hierarchy of notions of the things that are closer
    or farther, higher or lower. It is what I was taught, my view of this world, my world
    outlook. It includes my education, i.e. the system of my ideas and my schooling.
    Sorry about your brother.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderland View Post
    I can see how Ni could be experienced as a "mood" in itself while having nothing to do with moods. I can't "show" it though.
    Makes no sense

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Yeah I wondered about the mood thing. It is as if Reinin was pairing Ni/Fe there. The link goes into IMs.

    Nvm, seems he means mood as in a temporary state of mind which makes more sense. Things translated from Russian are tricky sometimes.
    No it sounded more like Fi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    No it sounded more like Fi.
    Not really.

    A mood is less specific than an emotion or feeling, less intense and less likely to be triggered by a particular action or event. Moods can be described as being either positive or negative. Here are some common moods that can be used in everyday conversation or in descriptive writing.

    Positive Mood Examples:


    • Amused
    • Blissful
    • Calm
    • Cheerful
    • Content
    • Dreamy
    • Ecstatic
    • Energetic
    • Excited
    • Flirty
    • Giddy
    • Good
    • Happy
    • Joyful
    • Loving
    • Mellow
    • Optimistic
    • Peaceful
    • Silly
    • Sympathetic


    Negative Mood Examples:

    • Angry
    • Annoyed
    • Apathetic
    • Bad
    • Cranky
    • Depressed
    • Envious
    • Frustrated
    • Gloomy
    • Grumpy
    • Guilty
    • Indifferent
    • Irritated
    • Melancholy
    • Pessimistic
    • Rejected
    • Restless
    • Sad
    • Stressed
    • Weird


    https://examples.yourdictionary.com/mood-examples.html
    You ignore that it is also describes a state of mind or atmosphere.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    I have a standard set of ethics

    1. Be kind and compassionate (I’m human too so I get upset).
    2. Don’t lie, have integrity
    3. Concentrate on your own work. Never mind what anybody else does
    4. Realize that some kinds of teasing is hurtful and offensive to others.
    5. Love
    6. Rescue puppies when you can

    Lol

    Ethics is such a funny thing
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Agree or disagree?
    NFs are doomed to be mystepd forever... for real. I mean, in that article Ni/Ne Fi/Fe are really inverted compared to other socion theories. I agree, the Ni and Fi especially so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Makes no sense
    Who said it had to make sense?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Not really.



    You ignore that it is also describes a state of mind or atmosphere.
    A state of mind IS mood

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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderland View Post
    Who said it had to make sense?
    Someone whos T type

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Yeah I wondered about the mood thing. It is as if Reinin was pairing Ni/Fe there. The link goes into IMs.

    Nvm, seems he means mood as in a temporary state of mind which makes more sense. Things translated from Russian are tricky sometimes.
    Quote Originally Posted by wonderland View Post
    I can see how Ni could be experienced as a "mood" in itself while having nothing to do with moods. I can't "show" it though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Makes no sense
    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    No it sounded more like Fi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Not really.

    You ignore that it is also describes a state of mind or atmosphere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    A state of mind IS mood
    Mood is a temporary state of mind or feeling.

    What sounds like Fi Mr. T?


    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Mood is a temporary state of mind or feeling.

    What sounds like Fi Mr. T?

    Temporary state of mood?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    NFs are doomed to be mystepd forever... for real. I mean, in that article Ni/Ne Fi/Fe are really inverted compared to other socion theories. I agree, the Ni and Fi especially so.
    I had fallen asleep, as I woke I read your post. I thought it said, "NFs are doomed to be my redheaded stepchild forever.."

    I tried to read Reinin book again. He merges functions together in a different way. It is confusing. Looks like some are reversed Filatova book descriptions.
    Last edited by Aylen; 04-25-2019 at 03:25 AM.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Someone whos T type
    I used to care about what made sense: facts, proofs, explainations... I don't anymore. I find life much more interesting when I don't brush off things because they don't make sense and I just agree to live the present experience. Being alone in my facts and proofs proved to suck and keep my mind closed to many wonders of life. I want more from life than stuff that make logical sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Would you say she was using role function in some form there according to this? That is if you agree with the summary at all.
    I can't speak for Maritsa, but it is not uncommon for people to have a diminished degree of contact with their emotions and thus try to express themselves in a socially accepted way. I know I did for decades ;-)
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderland View Post
    I used to care about what made sense: facts, proofs, explainations... I don't anymore. I find life much more interesting when I don't brush off things because they don't make sense and I just agree to live the present experience. Being alone in my facts and proofs proved to suck and keep my mind closed to many wonders of life. I want more from life than stuff that make logical sense.
    the beauty of life is that everything has a logical explanation

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    Usually it seems like Fe is about connective ethics
    and Fi is internal ethics. When it comes to word ethics outside of socionics usage it encompasses all the IE's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
    I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    Usually it seems like Fe is about connective ethics
    and Fi is internal ethics. When it comes to word ethics outside of socionics usage it encompasses all the IE's.
    Introverted feelings coupled with Ne can use an arsenal of feelings as a manipulation tactic to make people do things. Like, I'll ignore you, you don't care for me; complaints, acting helpless, etc these are all meant to put pressure on other people's weak ethics or OR to call on a dual in a hinting way to provide the needed assistance.

    Like the weekend I was so over loaded with baby screeching, I looked tired and upset and needed rest and recuperation (Si); my husband looks at my face and says "Let ME take over honey; you GO and take a shower than a nap." OMG I love LSE. They can read all of my "calls" for request of sensory support. All I did was look beat up.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-25-2019 at 05:04 AM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Everybody has things like ethics and emotions.

    You don't have some kind of special ethics or feelings just because you supposedly have "Fi", whatever "Fi" is supposed to be.

    It just seems to be another way of saying "I'm special because I have something special, which is too special for you to understand", which is just a big circlejerk.

    In the same way, everybody has the ability to reason and understand a fact. You're not a special snowflake.

    Incidentally, I think feelings can produce ethics, but I don't think that ethics are necessarily based on feelings. I think that ultimately, ethics are rational and they can be explained rationally. Neither are feelings necessarily irrational, it's just a summarization of particular events. It seems irrational, or perhaps it is irrational if seen from a bigger picture. But that's only because feelings have to quickly and instantaneously decide on something and produce a result.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Everybody has things like ethics and emotions.

    You don't have some kind of special ethics or feelings just because you supposedly have "Fi", whatever "Fi" is supposed to be.

    It just seems to be another way of saying "I'm special because I have something special, which is too special for you to understand", which is just a big circlejerk.

    In the same way, everybody has the ability to reason and understand a fact. You're not a special snowflake.

    Incidentally, I think feelings can produce ethics, but I don't think that ethics are necessarily based on feelings. I think that ultimately, ethics are rational and they can be explained rationally. Neither are feelings necessarily irrational, it's just a summarization of particular events.
    okay, but looking at it in an overall picture; EII lack will power to do shit so they need a strong doer to do shit for them. That's N supported by S; simple.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    I'm not sure how most people perceive Fi but I was just thinking about it and to me it totally doesn't seem like emotions or feeling at all, which I sometimes find in descriptions and have also inferred from how people talk. To me Fi doesn't seem like feeling at all. But rather it is an analysis of certain characteristics of people, well this is how it predominantly comes across anyway... there are also other ways. So yeh, I think Fi has pretty much nothing to do with feeling. To me it is totally a thinking function. For example Fi "says" to me "based on what I have previously seen in this person he/she will likely have this, this, and that on his/her wall. Will behave like this in this situation and that in that situation. He/she will like this but not that.... etc. It totally seems to have nothing to do with emotions.

    Does anyone else identify with this?

    Is this pretty much the description of Fi?
    Not really feeling that one. has everything to do with personal feeling. Could you admit that someone has a point yet still wanna see em' get screwed over/dead because "that's how it ought to be" for instance? Y'know, like knowing someone killed an earnestly loving parent in cold blood because reasons (let's say they're good for argument's sake). That... was still family dude. Not even a tear at least? Didn't even try to defy fate even if it was a million to one odds? I mean hell, even if the odds are that bad, the prospect of that ultimate happy ending is worth it just on basic principle!

    Pretty sure that's also an trait. We will act on basic principles because someone has to damnit!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    the beauty of life is that everything has a logical explanation
    If only everyone on this single *planet* at least knew/understood/agreed upon/etc. what constitutes the "logical" if ya catch my drift...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    okay, but looking at it in an overall picture; EII lack will power to do shit so they need a strong doer to do shit for them. That's N supported by S; simple.
    Well who says that you can't do "strong shit", you're just limiting yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Everybody has things like ethics and emotions.

    You don't have some kind of special ethics or feelings just because you supposedly have "Fi", whatever "Fi" is supposed to be.

    It just seems to be another way of saying "I'm special because I have something special, which is too special for you to understand", which is just a big circlejerk.

    In the same way, everybody has the ability to reason and understand a fact. You're not a special snowflake.

    Incidentally, I think feelings can produce ethics, but I don't think that ethics are necessarily based on feelings. I think that ultimately, ethics are rational and they can be explained rationally. Neither are feelings necessarily irrational, it's just a summarization of particular events. It seems irrational, or perhaps it is irrational if seen from a bigger picture. But that's only because feelings have to quickly and instantaneously decide on something and produce a result.
    I still think that typology is cognitive extremes and most people can't be typed because our brains don't actually work in the prescriptive way defined by socionics. They do lay an interesting theory of the boundaries of cognition. I was thinking the other day about how socionics deals with the Fe polr. Now wouldn't it make just as much sense for a Te dominant to be descriptively as Fe polr as a Te creative? It could be argued that Fi dominants are as much descriptively Fe polr due to the nature of Fi.

    One of the problems is that some possible explanations are taken as absolute facts, as are some of the axioms. If you take away some of the axioms such as which functions are supposedly conscious and unconscious in some people, while the reverse in others, you wouldn't have a reliable theory, and in typology, sticking to your axioms is important to convince others of its validity.Well it's the basis of convincing anyone of anything really.

    Going back to Jung, there is no logical reason why someone who values Ti as a leading function has to prefer a particular set of functions in the way defined by socionics. It is interesting, sure, but there is no law that demands a Ti user must next prefer Ne or Se as a creative functions. What will happen if they don't? Will the user die instantaneously? Will the universe cease to exist?

    I don't deny that there exists people that fit each of the types perfectly. It is just most people do not. You can make more people fit by adjusting qualify parameters, but because this is arbitrary, people will endlessly debate and argue about it, much like arguing whether the room feels too warm or too cold. For a supposedly logical theory, it doesn't logically follow that just because some of the population fits the theory, that all people do.

    I agree with you, we all have ethical, emotional, logical, and intuitive abilities and we would serve Truth better if we were to keep an open mind of our cognitive commonalities and differences. We really don't have to have a system or a rigid typological system to understand something as fluid and dynamic as consciousness, as consciousness is the basis for such beliefs to begin with. It is difficult, if not damn well impossible to objectively define and categorize consciousness and its various aspects. There is nothing to fear and we don't need to create dogmatic systems to comfort. We should embrace the uncertainties of life. It moves us toward understanding.

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    Fi has nothing to do with ethics, emotions or feelings because all types have these; it does relate to their rationalization. The IEs should be restricted to observations of cognitive processes, thus, treated separately from emotions. F-rationalization is associative in nature and the only difference between Fi and Fe is processing configuration. Fi isn't interested, for example, in specific input objects or responsible for specific output concepts. Information processing works on everything and what differentiates types is perspective and priority - affecting the way things are perceived and how the information (with emotions included) is rationalized.......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I had fallen asleep, as I woke I read your post. I thought it said, "NFs are doomed to be my redheaded stepchild forever.."
    ahahahahahahahah whyyyy <3

    (yes they are)

    I tried to read Reinin book again. He merges functions together in a different way. It is confusing. Looks like some are reversed Filatova book descriptions.
    yes, and also for other functions.. like Te/Ti too are described invertedly in other theories... but it's interesting, if Reinin was using these description to build his dichotomies, it makes sense I'm an SLE in there lol

    actually I took the Reinin dichotomy test again, ended up with LII or ESE, to which I suspected I was being played by some socionics master troll (It was BS maybe).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Well who says that you can't do "strong shit", you're just limiting yourself.
    get real dude; i'm fragile; that means I am TINY
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Fi is an involved function so yes Fi types will tendentially show more emotions and feelings compared to their same-temperament static counterparts.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    I'm not sure how most people perceive Fi but I was just thinking about it and to me it totally doesn't seem like emotions or feeling at all, which I sometimes find in descriptions and have also inferred from how people talk. To me Fi doesn't seem like feeling at all. But rather it is an analysis of certain characteristics of people, well this is how it predominantly comes across anyway... there are also other ways. So yeh, I think Fi has pretty much nothing to do with feeling. To me it is totally a thinking function. For example Fi "says" to me "based on what I have previously seen in this person he/she will likely have this, this, and that on his/her wall. Will behave like this in this situation and that in that situation. He/she will like this but not that.... etc. It totally seems to have nothing to do with emotions.

    Does anyone else identify with this?

    Is this pretty much the description of Fi?
    ur confusing Fi with Ti now

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Here are some ethics of relationship quotes that I made for you all:

    "A husband helps his wife with the household"
    "A husband gives his wife a set time when he will return"
    "A child listens to his father/mother"
    "A family respects their elder"

    Here's another I made my husband do on the weekend that I posted in the box

    [Today 06:37 PM] Beautiful sky : They follow my ethics when I say "honey it's Easter you should call your mom" because in ethics of relationships for EII (where we are aristocratic and ceremonious) you call your parents on Easter (right thing to do).
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Well I guess the most basic thing that people do everyday is "Delta Fi" and "Socionics related".

    Really how is this exclusive to Fi, and something that only "Fi types" can do and understand? The same goes for any other functions. The only time that they're exclusive is when they're so vague and nebulous that nobody can understand what the hell they're saying.

    I simply call BS. Either this is a forced categorization, or a parlor trick to make themselves feel special for having special abilities.

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    Fi people tend to experience deeper and quieter emotions. What's the big deal.

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    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
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    To me it’s knowing about people’s values and about how they tick on a human level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    To me it’s knowing about people’s values and about how they tick on a human level.
    2 you it's 1D. if you really are SLE.

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    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    2 you it's 1D. if you really are SLE.
    *4 you

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    Hah, yu are right, 4 you it is 1D Fi. So you have no idea what we are talking about when we talk about Fi. No experiential knowledge at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Here are some ethics of relationship quotes that I made for you all:

    "A husband helps his wife with the household"
    "A husband gives his wife a set time when he will return"
    "A child listens to his father/mother"
    "A family respects their elder"

    Here's another I made my husband do on the weekend that I posted in the box

    [Today 06:37 PM] Beautiful sky : They follow my ethics when I say "honey it's Easter you should call your mom" because in ethics of relationships for EII (where we are aristocratic and ceremonious) you call your parents on Easter (right thing to do).
    You are the most Si EII I a have ever seen? Do you even have Ne as a function? This is an honest question.

    I've seen you interview with an "LSE" cousin and tbh you seem more fun in person.

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    People can get emotional over many things. Not just in context of being a human.

    Like Andrew Wiles who cried when found a proof to Fermat's Last Theorem and it does not certainly move humans in general. Maybe some get it from dusting things.

    This completes the proof.
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
    I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.

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    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Hah, yu are right, 4 you it is 1D Fi. So you have no idea what we are talking about when we talk about Fi. No experiential knowledge at least.
    The very definition of a 1D function is that it’s limited by experience, actually. https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...y-of-Functions

    1D functions are the most experientially-based ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    The very definition of a 1D function is that it’s limited by experience, actually. https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...y-of-Functions
    Soy you think you understand Fi? even on a 4D level? Yea I didn't think so either.

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