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Thread: Introverted Ethics Fi not like emotions or feelings

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Soy you think you understand Fi? even on a 4D level? Yea I didn't think so either.
    Nope. I’m glad I’ve got 4D Te and Se and 3D Ti to thoroughly understand it, and also dimensionality theory, on an experiential level with though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Nope. I’m glad I’ve got 4D Te and Se and 3D Ti to thoroughly understand it, and also dimensionality theory, on an experiential level with though. <img src="images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="" smilieid="1" class="inlineimg">
    <br>
    Yea but you don't got experiential knowlegde so your ur always a little left out. It's the difference between reading about it and living it. You have reading about it knowledge. So you never know what it is. You just know what ppl say it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    <br>
    Yea but you don't got experiential knowlegde so your ur always a little left out. It's the difference between reading about it and living it. You have reading about it knowledge. So you never know what it is. You just know what ppl say it is.
    Erm, okay. I don’t think that you’re following.

    Everyone has the ability to experience all IEs and does experience them. 1D functions in fact are entirely based on experiential knowledge. You can check out the theory basics that I linked two posts before this one.

    In addition, the PoLR function is a conscious one. So there’s really no reason I shouldn’t know what it is, even if I may not necessarily be that good at it.

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    Well I'd suppose having "4D Te" means blindly accepting something as true, just because a Socionist says so.

    If being a "T type" means believing in Socionics, then it must be crap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Soy you think you understand Fi? even on a 4D level? Yea I didn't think so either.
    I have 1D Fi and I think I understand it; I’m just inept at using it.

    I was on an elevator yesterday with an ESI-Fi, and the impression I got from just standing next to her was one of deep, deep feelings. But maybe this was inferred rather than real, IDK.

    I relate my 1D Fi to 4D Fi by comparing my 4D Te to the Te of other people, where they almost always use it less well, almost like children in comparison.
    I have no doubt that my Fi appears to be pretty childish to 4D Fi users.

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    I have 1 D Se and the more I use it, the more I realize how great its power is. Instinctual Intelligence. saves a lot of time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Well I'd suppose having "4D Te" means blindly accepting something as true, just because a Socionist says so.

    If being a "T type" means believing in Socionics, then it must be crap.
    How can socionics be real if our eyes arent real - 4d Teist

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    We can only see things that we have expectations of:

    "If we ask what really comes first, it is not an observation or even a hypothesis, but an entire organism in which there are built-in expectations and built-in ways of reacting. These expectations and ways of reacting are themselves a kind of built-in way of knowing. And our sensations and observations really have meaning only relative to them. Jet planes, for example, do not, as a rule, even disturb the birds. A human being might look up when he hears a plane, but a cat would not. This is because the plane lies outside of a cat’s framework of expectations. It just doesn’t ring a bell. And in order to observe something, it has to ring a bell, which means that you observe only those things that your organism is prepared to observe by your inborn reactions and earlier experiences."

    - Karl Popper

    http://www.the-rathouse.com/Intro-Ph...-Problems.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Well I guess the most basic thing that people do everyday is "Delta Fi" and "Socionics related".

    Really how is this exclusive to Fi, and something that only "Fi types" can do and understand? The same goes for any other functions. The only time that they're exclusive is when they're so vague and nebulous that nobody can understand what the hell they're saying.

    I simply call BS. Either this is a forced categorization, or a parlor trick to make themselves feel special for having special abilities.
    You are not observing people’s relationships on a regular basis. Trust me.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmers View Post
    One of the problems is that some possible explanations are taken as absolute facts, as are some of the axioms. If you take away some of the axioms such as which functions are supposedly conscious and unconscious in some people, while the reverse in others, you wouldn't have a reliable theory, and in typology, sticking to your axioms is important to convince others of its validity.Well it's the basis of convincing anyone of anything really.
    Well I think the main problem is that Socionics doesn't actually offer any explanations, it instead shuts off from giving explanations by labeling things.

    So we may ask, "Why does this person do this?" and it answers with "Because of Fi" and we say "Ah... that's why". But that's not an explanation for that behavior, it's just about giving a label for that behavior.

    So we may think that we have satisfied our curiosity of finding out the answer to the question of "why?", but it actually hasn't. Perhaps labeling things is a kind of an explanation, but that label itself remains unexplained.

    What exactly is Fi, other than an observation? It's like saying "an apple drops to the ground of because of gravity", but there's no theory or an explanation for what that "gravity" is.

    So I think that's one of the main reasons why Socionics remain unsatisfactory, because it doesn't enlighten us by explaining the things that it purports to explain, which are human behaviors, why do people do things the way they do, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Well I think the main problem is that Socionics doesn't actually offer any explanations, it instead shuts off from giving explanations by labeling things.

    So we may ask, "Why does this person do this?" and it answers with "Because of Fi" and we say "Ah... that's why". But that's not an explanation for that behavior, it's just about giving a label for that behavior.

    So we may think that we have satisfied our curiosity of finding out the answer to the question of "why?", but it actually hasn't. Perhaps labeling things is a kind of an explanation, but that label itself remains unexplained.

    What exactly is Fi, other than an observation? It's like saying "an apple drops to the ground of because of gravity", but there's no theory or an explanation for what that "gravity" is.

    So I think that's one of the main reasons why Socionics remain unsatisfactory, because it doesn't enlighten us by explaining the things that it purports to explain, which are human behaviors, why do people do things the way they do, etc.
    that's why we ask and we explore.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    that's why we ask and we explore.
    Well that's true, but we'll need to come up with theories and explanations, instead of just kind of observing and describing things, which then the unexpressed theories and explanations just remain inside of our heads.

    So if we were going to "type" then we'll need to explain how typing works, and if we want to know how typing works then we'll need to know how types work, and if we want to know how types work then we'll need to know how our brains or our psychology work. If we can put them into words and give them clarity, then people can objectively pick them apart. If we don't then all we can do is agree or disagree but give no explanation or rationale as to why.

    Newton enlightened us by coming up with an explanation for what gravity is, which came in the form of the theory of universal gravitation. In the same way, someone needs to come up with a theory on what Fi or emotions are, or whatever.
    Last edited by Singu; 04-28-2019 at 02:22 AM.

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    Fi is exactly what it says, the internalized feelings and sensations of attraction/repulsion, like or dislike. Four dimensional Fi/or mb valued Fi too, for example knows exactly why deep in its heart of hearts why it loathes a particular thing and can write a 50,000 page essay on it. It can do this with multiple topics many times. Fi is loving and sweet as it is harsh, unforgiving and brutal. But objectively speaking, it definitely lacks the diplomacy that Fe has because Fe is about creating a certain emotional atmosphere for others rather than 'I personally like/dislike this and here is a 50,000 page essay explaining why.'

    My fi polr ILE buddy for example... accepts everybody equally even though he's a huge jerk at times that doesn't take people's own personal fields of like/dislike into account very well. It's because he isn't paying enough attention to this stuff, is why he can accept people better than an angry, self-righteous EII with a stick up their ass. So fi polr is also very ethical as it is non-ethical, just like Fi is loving/deep/moral/kind as it is harsh/brutal/unforgiving. Of course to a Fi valuer Fi polr its going to seem highly unethical.

    Fi polr can also make you not judge situations accurately and then you can overreact the same way a Fi-ego would. The eighth function is probably the strongest we have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    The eighth function is probably the strongest we have.
    D33p af

    I guess though it’s strong in the sense that a muscular uncontrolled retarded person on a rage would be strong and profound, etc.

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    lol that sort of thing is considered very strong, at least in 'Murica. The 4D ego function definitely has more finesse tho yeah. The pretentiousness of it is how we troll our supervisees with it.

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    Hurr-durr-reeeeeee-ca

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    D33p af

    I guess though it’s strong in the sense that a muscular uncontrolled retarded person on a rage would be strong and profound, etc.
    How insightful you are. Methinks you still need to practice socionics some more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    ....My fi polr ILE buddy for example... accepts everybody equally even though he's a huge jerk at times that doesn't take people's own personal fields of like/dislike into account very well. It's because he isn't paying enough attention to this stuff, is why he can accept people better than an angry, self-righteous EII with a stick up their ass. So fi polr is also very ethical as it is non-ethical, just like Fi is loving/deep/moral/kind as it is harsh/brutal/unforgiving. Of course to a Fi valuer Fi polr its going to seem highly unethical.
    Don't forget there is another side to the coin: many ILEs are good people, and their easy acceptance of people can also attract the wrong people, parasites that feed of their good intentions.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Assuming that the entire motivation for their behavior is "like/dislike", "attraction/repulsion", or lack thereof.

    Which I highly doubt is the case, since the the motivation can't be less complex than the observed behavior. It ignores the all sorts of complexities and logical chains of events that must lead to that certain kind of behavior, such as the creation of complex systems of morality or the managing of relationships.

    It's basically the equivalent of "psychological reductionism". It's like saying that if we only managed to pinpoint and identify the "initial condition" of an atom or something, then we can predict the entire world. That may be true in principle, but that's hardly the point, because it requires all sorts of different levels of explanations to understand why things are the way they are, right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roger557 View Post
    How insightful you are. Methinks you still need to practice socionics some more.
    Methinks you need to keep tardflailing in your swivel chair. Practice your 1D functions lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Assuming that the entire motivation for their behavior is "like/dislike", "attraction/repulsion", or lack thereof.

    Which I highly doubt is the case, since the the motivation can't be less complex than the observed behavior. It ignores the all sorts of complexities and logical chains of events that must lead to that certain kind of behavior, such as the creation of complex systems of morality or the managing of relationships.

    It's basically the equivalent of "psychological reductionism". It's like saying that if we only managed to pinpoint and identify the "initial condition" of an atom or something, then we can predict the entire world. That may be true in principle, but that's hardly the point, because it requires all sorts of different levels of explanations to understand why things are the way they are, right now.
    Which is ironic considering many adherents of Jungian psychology are antagonistic toward science because of its tendency toward material reductionism.

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    Socionics in practice is not about understanding, but creating a new, or alternative social order. It needs to be kept in check. Look how horribly people treat each other on this site. No one takes the time to understand one another. So many think they are the typist Supreme. Now extend this into a global context and it spells disaster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Methinks you need to keep tardflailing in your swivel chair. Practice your 1D functions lol.
    ?

    Which function exactly would that serve as practice to?

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    Quote Originally Posted by roger557 View Post
    ?

    Which function exactly would that serve as practice to?
    Methinks it’s all of them for you m8. Since they’re all 1D and located in your ass, you’ll get a full TIM workout.

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    Fi is feelings. another kind of them
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    It ignores the all sorts of complexities and logical chains of events that must lead to that certain kind of behavior, such as the creation of complex systems of morality or the managing of relationships.


    Of course it does, but when you define something you have to ignore the complexities otherwise you talk in demonic babble-tongue. And of course people are going to have motivations beyond like/dislike, the point of Fi itself as a definition is not motivations though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Methinks it’s all of them for you m8. Since they’re all 1D and located in your ass, you’ll get a full TIM workout.
    Very informative and useful response, as expected of you...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmers View Post
    Look how horribly people treat each other. No one takes the time to understand one another.
    Thats the internet in a nutshell

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    Of course it does, but when you define something you have to ignore the complexities otherwise you talk in demonic babble-tongue. And of course people are going to have motivations beyond like/dislike, the point of Fi itself as a definition is not motivations though.
    We're saying that Fi is likes/dislikes, attraction/repulsion etc, and therefore, this will lead to observed "Fi" behaviors in "Fi types".

    The definition of Fi is simple, yet the resultant observed behavior of people are complex. They both don't jibe.

    If we focus exclusively on likes/dislikes... then that must only lead to very simplistic behaviors. It can't possibly lead to complex ideas like interpersonal relationships or systems of morality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roger557 View Post
    Very informative and useful response, as expected of you...
    Who the fuck are you? Have I talked to you before?! I’m glad you have an impression of me, at all. I feel kind of special.

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    @roger557 Also, do you put that derpy stuffed puppet up your anus and play with your prostrate with it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Who the fuck are you? Have I talked to you before?! I’m glad you have an impression of me, at all. I feel kind of special.
    Maybe. Are you niffer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by roger557 View Post
    Maybe. Are you niffer?
    Whodat? I take it “maybe” is an answer to my post above this one.

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