What do you think or would like to learn about them?
What do you think or would like to learn about them?
Dumas, The Mediator
Alexandre Dumas Sr. - the French writer.
1. He is amicable, always appears optimistic and in a good spirits. He does not impose his will on others, hiding his real feelings. He is always equally warm, caring, smiling. He does not like to ask and moreover to demand favors, and strives to satisfy his needs through his own efforts.
2. He appreciates all the facets of life, finely experiences nature and the arts. He is capable of remembering and reproducing emotions once experienced. Ayvazovsky painted his seascapes in a room with dark red walls and windows looking out in the opposite direction of the sea. He loves pleasures and knows how to bestow them – an artist in loving.
3. Attentive and considerate. Tries not to infringe on others’ comfort. His very quick and consciously controlled emotional reactions aim to test or alter the emotions of the others. This results in many jokes – if they are out of turn he immediately takes them back. He is permanently in the process of emotional creativity, searching for the most effective ways to activate his partner. With exceptional ardor he manipulates the moods of his friends and relatives.
4. Peacemaker. He dislikes to quarrel, say “no”, break undesired acquaintances – this is why he avoids sticky people. He needs a partner, who under certain circumstances will also not quarrel, but just slam the door and leave. This is just how his dual, Don Quixote, will act. It’s noteworthy that Alexander Dumas (the great French novelist) picked Ida Ferrier out of the many of his mistresses, because she kept him at a longer leash than the others.
5. Who needs what? He remarks people’s needs, what motivates them, enjoys persuading everyone and winning them over to his side. But he needs his dual in order to know, whom he must convince and of what, because his dual possesses insights into potential capabilities of people, ideas, and undertakings.
6. He does not like to make people aware of his existence while there is no need of him. He strives neither to stand out as an advanced man nor to lag too far behind. He does not like to compete, shows initiative only on his own “territory”. He prefers that in his family initiative and responsibility belong to his partner, even if he is the one to carry everything out. An interesting fact: before Alexander Dumas The Father began writing "The Three Musketeers", "The Count of Monte-Cristo" and many other books, his secret co-author Max wrote their drafts.
7. "A tender calf is nursed by two cows." When he feels lousy, he is compelled to hide somewhere and recuperate. His mood is spoiled making him incapable of manipulating people, without this communication seems meaningless to him.
Your dual (psychologically complementary type): Don Quixote, The Searcher (intuitive-logical extrovert).
ISFPs have a characteristic stout or chubby, rounded figure. They often have short legs and a bouncy gait, giving the impression of a big springy ball. Their faces are usually smooth and round without any obvious projections. Sometimes ISFPs can have slightly upturned noses. Their eyes are often round. Their mouths sometimes have an uneven line. In moments of passionate conversation they often swallow air like a fish.
When ISFPs try to explain things, they can move their eyebrows considerably. This is the reason why they often have horizontal wrinkles on their forehead. ISFPs generally appear to be soft-hearted, but can become quite assertive if required. Their facial expression can change suddenly and unexpectedly from friendly one to a stern one, especially when they wish to distance themselves psychologically from someone. ISFPs are often inclined to give advise concerning will power and initiative.
ISFPs have a well developed aesthetic taste. Their clothes are usually neat, colourful and radiate a warm, comfortable feeling. They like to touch things in order to appreciate their physical qualities. When interacting with others ISFPs try to maintain a closeness. They are often outwardly sociable, charming and friendly. They know well how to endear themselves to others and how to make people trust them. They prefer to interact in a democratic fashion, avoiding the spotlight.
ISFPs do not usually try to push friendships. If they feel that a person does not want to establish contact with them they do not insist. They usually make just one attempt and if it is not successful they hardly ever try again. They maintain contact only with people that they find interesting. ISFPs find it fairly difficult to interact with people that they dislike, even if it goes against their interests. In these situations they lose their personal magnetism, and their speech may become unintelligible.
ISFPs enjoy gathering and sharing interacting facts and news. However, they always add a certain degree of colour to their narrative hoping to make it more interesting. This is the reason that ISFPs are rarely caught telling a story the same way twice. They can easily talk about a single subject for a considerable amount of time, especially about their recent experiences. They also like to read a variety of newspapers.
ISFPs do not like to unload their problems on others. When asked "How are you?" they usually reply that they are fine regardless of weather they are or not. ISFPs do not like to make promises. If someone asks them for their help they will often reply "I cannot promise but I will try..." or "If I can..." If they were not able to fulfil a promise they will continually apologise until they feel that they have been forgiven.
ISFPs have a strong desire to experience as much as they can and to enjoy themselves as much as possible. They love spending time and having fun with their friends, often joking and playing pranks. They do not like to be the centre of attention, but they also do not like to be too far away from where it is all happening. ISFPs behaviour can be so independent and original that they may confuse and bewilder other people. Because of this people can consider ISFPs to be light-minded.
ISFPs can usually only be productive when working for themselves. In all other cases it is rare for them to work hard. They try their best to avoid strenuous physical exercises wherever possible, unless it is in the course of a particular sporting activity that they enjoy.
Another behavioural pattern peculiar to ISFPs is their tendency to try and stay in the middle. To be neither the best or to be the worst. This is the reason that they do not like to openly criticise people and do not get involved in confrontations. ISFPs always try to keep well away from bosses and other authoritative figures. They do not like briefings and other boring business meetings. They try to negotiate on an informal level using only safe and reliable acquaintances. ISFPs try to maintain peaceful relations with everybody.
Could you put here the subtypes descriptions? I've read 'em, but i am not the best to write them down.
I'm gonna put them under each type - as soon as I translate them. And unfortunately I don't have much time for that.Originally Posted by male21
Emotional and sociable communicator can easily become a part of any company and seems to be an extrovert. He loves convenient loose clothes to which he is not exacting – he may wear quite shabby ones. He is artistic, can frequently be the ringleader. Finds nimself in amateur performances, may be a musician, an actor, an advertising agent.
He has a good aesthetic taste which can be seen through the way he dresses and decorates interior and through the applied arts he takes interests in. Selectors can quite frequently be landscape painters, they like painting and still life. Selector’s a connoisseur of well-being, comfort is very important for him. It(he) the sybarite, watches(keeps up) the appearance. Being a hedonist he likes giving pleasure to both himself and the others.
I am very agressive in my postings @least it seems that way after a day i wrote them
I'm thankfull, Milyshka, that you put socionics material up here. Your material is very usefull.
Oh God I wrote Malyshaks name as Milyshka. Milyi means darling in Russian
I have some questions about ISFPs since I have a problem determining their type:
1. How to efficiently determine an ISFP with Visual Identification or with other tools?
2. Does anyone know any famous ISFPs with pictures if possible?
Here is one link from Ganin's page: http://www.socionics.com/advan/famous.htm
3. Can Malyshka (when you have time :wink: ) or some other of our dear Russian folk translate female descriptions from http://www.socionics.org/type/type_women.html#@entp ? Please don't use Babelfish or other similar engines.
This place is reserved for the translationOriginally Posted by Don Quixote
Damn it ((: Forgot to log in again...
Then this place is reserved for translation. But imho those descriptions are a bit far away from reality... at least some of them...
Alice does not dress either fashionable, nor comfortable - she simply does not understand what’s that. She classifies clothes according to their end use: for having a walk, for going to the theatre, for work... She does’n prefer one particular color but tries to dress so that all the details of her clothes are of one tone (in this manner she hides her weak understanding of color harmony). She buys things obeying a sudden impulse and immediately begins to regret about it - because somewherethe same thing is probably for sale, but is better and cheaper.
Notwithstanding the common stereotype, Alice learns the basics of social behaviour much easier than male Quichote.. She tries to be equal and indulgently friendly with everyone, and all the unflattering epithets concerning associates she keeps to herself. She willingly tries to establish contacts frequently even taking the initiative. When making acquaintance she does not attach significance to people’s appearances or to eloquence. She’s interested in much more significant things and don’t even doubt - your person will be subject to a thorough analysis (from potency to financial status). In case of any suspicions Alice won’t intimate the relations till she makes certain that evetything’s all right. If she has agreed to date with you, it does not mean that she will come, but only that she has agreed. But starting at the first meeting she may allow you to go quite far, just out of curiosity...
(Is this the info you needed? If yes I'll translate it all)
They are a bit corny, but they are the only female descriptions that I have found, and somehow I find it more difficult to type women than men. If you have anything better put that instead this. English translation of different dual relationship would also be nice to have somewhere.Originally Posted by Malyshka
Isn't Alice an ENTP?
as far as possible I'll do all relationship by various authors in the respective section. First part (c) Gulenko is alreadi in Metaiwan's themeOriginally Posted by Don Quixote
I'm awfully sorry , but for some weird reason all the pages at www.socionics.org have the same web address. It is at socionics.org/socionics/ and it is called Dualization of the Types. It has descriptions of ENTP-ISFP, ENTJ-ISFJ, and other dual relationships.Originally Posted by Malyshka
Thanks, thanks, thanks, ...
These subtype descriptions by Valentina Meged - Psychologist (intuitive-ethical extrovert) ENFP and Anatoly Ovcharov - Craftsman (sensory-logical introvert) ISTP, can be confusing and opinions on them are divided but nonetheless they should be worth looking at, in my opinion they can be of some use in typing.
This description was from www.socionics.org
Sotsionicheskaya newspaper: № 01 (01), 22.11.2002
Note of editorial staff.
Attention! Until now in sotsionike there is a large problem because the authors of the different theories of subtypes so did not agree about the general terminology. There exists as the minimum of 3 theories of 32 subtypes (authors of present article, V.V.Gulenko and Ye.S.Filatovoy). In each of these theories the type is divided into two subtypes, as the authors consider, with the "intensive" first or second function (i.e. for example logico- intuitive introvert it can be "logical" or "intuitive" subtype). Problem in the fact that each divides type in in own way own way, and here terms are used the same. We request to consider this with reading of article.
We focus attention on the fact that also the pseudonyms of types all the more subtypes, used in this article, they are not in sotsionike conventional.
Sensory- ethical introvert: MEDIATOR, ISFP
Usually SEI they have the soft benevolent view, variable and expressive; first quick, carefully is rapid entire noticing, first now and then not blinking, attentive, then suddenly playful and sly. This view does not penetrate deeply, then the internal emotional state of man reflects well.
The mimicry of face is moderately living, the smile cordial, natural, which corresponds to situation and mood, sometimes somewhat coquettish. Face frequently rounded, eyes and mouth with the conversation can resemble letter "o". The large features of face are softened by the expression of softness and kindness.
The manners of the behavior OF SEI are modest and elegant, although at times unexpectedly acquire the nuance of the familiarity, which is expressed first in the affectionate touchs to the collocutor, then in the whipping gestures. There is a tendency toward the completeness. It dresses BY SEI with the taste, it loves accessories. Motions confident, unconstrained, flattened, the noses of feet with walking frequently dilute to the sides.
Sensory subtype seems calm and soft in the contact of people. Loves rest and comfort. Khozyaystvenen is practical. He tries to do everything with the refined taste. It is frequently occupied as the hobby by any artistic distributions. It is benevolent, tactful and nenavyazchiv, by its presence it pacifies others. He tries to sympathize, soak by council. It loves to speak about its sensations, it attentively questions collocutor about his matters. It is sluggish in the behavior and it is leisurely in the conversation, it slightly extends words, with difficulty it sometimes formulates thoughts. Even if it suffers tongue twister, it does not hurry with the end of conversation. It can for long and thoroughly speak about one and the same. Constantly confidence it smiles, it nods by head into the sign of support. It has lazy, smooth motions, refined, elegant gestures. It walks only waddle, or by "duck" gait. Nedemonstrativen, but its clothing and accessories sometimes attract attention of those surrounding.
Ethical subtype - living, emotional and free in the contact of people. Easily draws together distance in the contact, willingly the beret of collocutor for the hand, he speaks compliments. Its freedom bears the nuance of familiarity. Shyness can be changed by observations in the witty form. Irony and "podkalyvaniya" easily pass in the serious and valid tone. Frequently it jokes and it speaks even unpleasant things with smile in order not to offend man. Predupreditelen is thoughtful.
It is impatient and restless. Times it is quick tempered, but is easily appeased nezlopamyaten. It is usually optimistic, oars and fervid. It loves to obtain and to provide pleasures. It frequently makes to people compliments and render different services. It knows how to raise mood, to encourage. It seems by serene person, since it usually hides its experiences from the strangers. He speaks rapidly, confidently, now and then categorically, with imperative intonations. View in it rapid, entire noticing, at times "shooting", now and then significant. The motions are confident, are elegant, but a little irregular.
My sister is an ISFP. I think your description fits her. But she prefers wearing bright colours--pink, yellow, orange, light purple.Originally Posted by Pedro-The-Lion
And yes about the "comfortable" things.. She still keeps her old pillow. It has a name and a voice! LOL.
Do ISFPs make good business owners/partners?
Jesus Christ. St. Francis of Assisi. George Harrison.
others say Jesus was an ENTJ.
well he certainly bullshitted alot didn't he?
I think he was an INTP or INFP, but that's just my personal opinion.
I guess I should clarify: I'm not refering to the Biblical Jesus as much as the popular perception of Jesus as this kind of loving hippie dude who can peer into your soul, very much an ISFP thing. I've never had an ENTJ peer into my soul, personally.
I should point out anything jesus did or did not do could or could not be made up and most of the bullshit was added by authors later on. Having said that, I was making a joke. Or trying to.
oh btw that guest up there was me. don't know how that happened.
Am I the onlyone who gets this feeling that ISFPs are not so smart people after all? Though they are very beautifull and artistic, they are in their deeper level very life unexperienced and banal at knowing man.
Think Gwen Stefani. Someone said she is isfp, I don't know. I love her style! It's different than Madonna or Christina or Britney. Much less pretentious and stylized. She naturally hip!
I know I was little bit harsh it's just I told all sort of things to her and she kept quiet and now I finally realized that she doesn't give a damn about me and she doesn't give it so hard that she doesn't even say to me that I am nobody to her.
Kaido, you are so ENTp.
I so nead a normal name to register. Darn brain just doesn't want to invent one. Once we entps get the feeling we are loved we open up and there is no secrets between us and them. But the sad thing is that not always this feeling of being loved is real, instead, we with our great imagination fantazised everithing out. But still, it's fun to day dream.
Or think of categories like gems or sports or artists or slang phrases. Then pick one that sounds cool.
[quote="Malyshka"]This is the reason that ISFPs are rarely caught telling a story the same way twice.[quote]
HeHe. That is so true. I forget how I told the story the first time. It end up being different the second time.
Umm just woundering who are the ISFP Dual?
I'm an ISFP I could describe me as an ISFP with Extroverson like qualities if you want .
ISFps tend to be very extraverted, and are perhaps the most "extraverted" introveted type.
*hiss*Hahaha we just need some ESFjs now and we will have the complete quadra.
Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)
What a beautiful example of a benefactor-beneficiary relationship.
Steve and Cone. That was funny with that hiss. Very mature :wink: .
^Might this trait apply to an ISFp as well?http://www.socionics.com/prof/esfp.htm - V.I. Indicator for ESFps
Their eyes normally show great alertness and seem to be constantly in motion. They seem to slide over people and objects creating the impression that ESFps are trying to better sense their surroundings. The eyes themselves are almost never deeply set.