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Thread: Enneagram Type: 4w3 vs 4w5 wing differences

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    you think he's Fe-sub? might explain some anomalies, but I had chalked that up to him being a C-subtype and generally batty. I've also never typed an Fe-sub 4w5.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Well when I spoke with him on the phone, he was much more emotionally pronounced than you, just a much more obvious outward, seething, kind of engaging quality. He lacks the emotional containment and the refined feeling that you and Starfall both clearly possess. It could be C-sub and sp-last, but I'm not entirely certain. The Fe was just much more obvious and intense; his is like blood spurting out of a severed limb, whereas yours is more the insidious drip from a slit wrist.

    He also selftypes Fe sub, I believe.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    I like that blood metaphor for Fe...mine is probably more akin to the seeping gush of an impalement, and Typhon would be a bit like the burbling hemorrhage of a recent decapitation.

    Fun...

    I do think your 3 wing and sp>so has a lot to do with the containment factor, but I would probably need a definite sx-first 4w5 IEI-Ni to compare to in order to really settle it.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    The more I think about it and draw comparisons to definite Fe subs, the more I think it is probably just rat being sx/so. He is pretty obvious Ni/Se axis...
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    yeah idk, he's pretty obsessively Ti for a C-sub, and has the 4-5-8 thing going on (the Fe-sub typing seemed based on yet another whimsical paradigm shift). but yeah, there really are no 4w5 sx's here for comparison; though krae is Ni-sub and sx/sp, and actually you can see the difference through the similar reactivity; krae keeps the edges pretty tight, crazed just throws shit everywhere.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    What e-type does krae claim? 6w5 still? I thought he had moved to 4w5...

    <3 krae either way, he should come back...
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    well last I remember he was indulging 4w5 but I still think he's 6w5 with a 4w5 heart fix
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Yeah he's a bit...open and casual for a 4. Although if he's sx/sp, which seems to make sense, I would lean 6w7...he's feels outer-directed for a 6w5 introvert. Maybe if he was sx/so...idk.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    It's hard for me to decide between 4w3 and 4w5 for myself. I always test as 4w5, but something about 4w3 makes much more sense. Maybe I'm a clear split between the two.
    What makes you unsure? Talk to me, maybe I can help. My brother is EII 4w5 and I dated an IEI 4w5 for two years. OTOH, I have a friend who is IEE 4w3 and a coworker who is EII 4w3. IMO the differences between the two are noticeable.
    someday the grapes will be wine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    Maybe you'll have a better idea after chatting with me a little more. It'd be nice to hear your input btw. I'm not so great with enneagram...
    That's fair. I've lurked long enough to have read some of your posts, but I haven't chatted with you very much.

    I will add something I thought about in the car, though. One of the ways I differentiate between the two types is by paying attention to how they try to protect their identities. 4w5s, in my experience, try to safeguard theirs by only revealing choice information to a few people, generally facts that are relevant to how they see themselves. 4w3s, on the other hand, protect their identities by showing themselves off in the best light. They SHOW relevant information rather than withhold contrary information, usually expressing themselves more openly than privately, though they can still be self-conscious and shy. Hope that makes sense.
    someday the grapes will be wine
    and someday you will be mine


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    Default 4w3 and 4w5s

    Any observed differences between 4w3s and 4w5s? Detailed, if possible I'm so confused.

    C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479

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    The 3-wing adds a busier element to the 4's emotionalism and agenda of uniqueness. They are more likely than the 4w5 to go out there to get the approval for their fantasies. Very dramatic, very much attracted by all things elitist that promise recognition for their manner of being different. Artist archetype.

    The 5-wing creates a double-reclusive person. 4 and 5 withdraw to distinguish themselves and observe society from an outside standpoint. 4w5 is the ultimate "individualist" with a knack of in-depth knowledge. Less dramatic but more on the depressed/ uber dreamy side esp when unhealthy. THE person to live in their head.

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    4w3 is more competitive and envious
    not elitist, elitist is soc related

    4w5 is more like.. wilting
    is not more depressed/dreamy than 4w3

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    Well as an 4w5... I'm more interested in more "intellectual" topics like science, technology and politics than the average 4, but not like a 5 that have more depth and are obsessed with acquiring any knowledge. Just the things that would interest me. My second type would be a 5.

    I'm not really good at "art" or creative stuff, but maybe that's just my lack of talent. But it doesn't really bother me if I'm not good at those things. I'd rather just think about things intellectually. But I do like art.

    Not competitive at all, don't care much for success or spotlight.

    Although I'm a very emotional person, I'm not really emotional around people like the average 4, but that could also be because I'm a social subtype.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    4w3 is more competitive and envious
    not elitist, elitist is soc related

    4w5 is more like.. wilting
    is not more depressed/dreamy than 4w3
    Competitive and envious yes, elitism is the 4's general trap and that doesn't extend to instincts.

    4w5 has more cerebral detachment than the 4w3 and is removed from the immediate, hence double withdrawal. The 3-wing gives more "can-do" attitude which resolves the dilemma of being stuck in one's imagination (4) and head (5), lending more identity focus instead. Depression means past focus (it's opposite to anxiety which is future focus, see E6/E7) --> melancholy and analytical combination of 4w5 magnifies this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Competitive and envious yes, elitism is the 4's general trap and that doesn't extend to instincts.

    4w5 has more cerebral detachment than the 4w3 and is removed from the immediate, hence double withdrawal. The 3-wing gives more "can-do" attitude which resolves the dilemma of being stuck in one's imagination (4) and head (5), lending more identity focus instead. Depression means past focus (it's opposite to anxiety which is future focus, see E6/E7) --> melancholy and analytical combination of 4w5 magnifies this.
    I don't think 3-wing automatically makes you have a "can-do" attitude, it depends on tritype. I know 4w3s who have 9 fix and they can be like helpess little infants. In certain cases I can be like that myself.
    Btw, look at Marilyn Manson, a 4w5 with a can-do attitude.

    Explain how you mean that 4s are elitists.

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    4w3 - Seeking Identity and Image

    • LifeExplore

      Fours with a 3 wing can sometimes seem like Sevens. May be outgoing, have a sense of humor and style. Prize being both creative and effective in the world. Both intuitive and ambitious; may have good imaginations, often talented. Some are colorful, fancy dressers, make a distinct impression. Self-knowledge combines well with social and organizational skills. When more entranced, often have a public/private split. Could conceal feelings in public then go home to loneliness. Or they could enjoy their work and be dissatisfied in love. Tendency towards melodrama and flamboyance; true feelings can often be hidden. Competitive, sneaky, aware of how they look. Some have bad taste. May be fickle in love, drawn to romantic images that they have projected onto others. Could have a dull spouse, then fantasize about glamorous strangers. Achievements can be tainted by jealousy, revenge, or a desire to prove the crowd wrong.

    4w5 - Seeking Identity and Knowledge

    • LifeExplore

      Healthy side of this wing brings a withdrawn, complex creativity. May be somewhat intellectual but have exceptional depth of feeling and insight. Very much their own person; original and idiosyncratic. Have a spiritual and aesthetic openness. Will find multiple levels of meaning to most events. May have a strong need and ability to pour themselves into artistic creations. Loners; can seem enigmatic and hard to read. Externally reserved and internally resonant. When they open up it can be sudden and total. When entranced or defensive, Fours with a 5 wing can easily feel alienated and depressed. Many have a sense of not belonging, of being from another planet. Can get lost in their own process, drown in their own ocean. Whiny - tend to ruminate and relive past experience. Prone to the emotion of shame. Air of sullen, withdrawn disappointment. May live within a private mythology of pain and loss. Can get deeply morbid and fall in love with death.


    I personally relate to 4w5 much more than 4w3. I am sx first though and I can be competitive and overly jealous/possessive sometimes. I was going to bold what I related to in 4w5 but it would have been the whole thing minus the prone to shame. I feel it like anyone but I can push past it. I don't wallow in shame. I can be rather shameless at times and get away with it. I relate to some of 4w3 too.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    Following are some examples...

     




     




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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    I don't think 3-wing automatically makes you have a "can-do" attitude, it depends on tritype. I know 4w3s who have 9 fix and they can be like helpess little infants. In certain cases I can be like that myself.
    Btw, look at Marilyn Manson, a 4w5 with a can-do attitude.

    Explain how you mean that 4s are elitists.
    Yes, since the 3-wing is more prone to desintegrate. But the core drive of 3 is still achieving - a wing's purpose is to help, in that case the 4. So it will happen in one health level way or another.

    Read the second table. The elite is comprised of someone/people who stand(s) out and who is/are different from the rest, somewhat above, remote from the mainstream. If that's not what E4 is about!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    4w3 - Seeking Identity and Image

    • LifeExplore

      Fours with a 3 wing can sometimes seem like Sevens. May be outgoing, have a sense of humor and style. Prize being both creative and effective in the world. Both intuitive and ambitious; may have good imaginations, often talented. Some are colorful, fancy dressers, make a distinct impression. Self-knowledge combines well with social and organizational skills. When more entranced, often have a public/private split. Could conceal feelings in public then go home to loneliness. Or they could enjoy their work and be dissatisfied in love. Tendency towards melodrama and flamboyance; true feelings can often be hidden. Competitive, sneaky, aware of how they look. Some have bad taste. May be fickle in love, drawn to romantic images that they have projected onto others. Could have a dull spouse, then fantasize about glamorous strangers. Achievements can be tainted by jealousy, revenge, or a desire to prove the crowd wrong.

    4w5 - Seeking Identity and Knowledge

    • LifeExplore

      Healthy side of this wing brings a withdrawn, complex creativity. May be somewhat intellectual but have exceptional depth of feeling and insight. Very much their own person; original and idiosyncratic. Have a spiritual and aesthetic openness. Will find multiple levels of meaning to most events. May have a strong need and ability to pour themselves into artistic creations. Loners; can seem enigmatic and hard to read. Externally reserved and internally resonant. When they open up it can be sudden and total. When entranced or defensive, Fours with a 5 wing can easily feel alienated and depressed. Many have a sense of not belonging, of being from another planet. Can get lost in their own process, drown in their own ocean. Whiny - tend to ruminate and relive past experience. Prone to the emotion of shame. Air of sullen, withdrawn disappointment. May live within a private mythology of pain and loss. Can get deeply morbid and fall in love with death.


    I personally relate to 4w5 much more than 4w3. I am sx first though and I can be competitive and overly jealous/possessive sometimes. I was going to bold what I related to in 4w5 but it would have been the whole thing minus the prone to shame. I feel it like anyone but I can push past it. I don't wallow in shame. I can be rather shameless at times and get away with it. I relate to some of 4w3 too.
    Any description that says 4w3 are outgoing makes me cringe -_-

    Are you sure you don't have any shame? I used to think I didn't either but I feel shame over my identity, sometimes going into moods where I realize nothing about me means anything and is pointless. I could take things and make them into *me* but that's inauthentic. For example. I would feel extreme guilt over acting inauthentic because im triple reactive too. I have this inner dilemma when I'm attracted to someone I want to be what they find attractive to pull them in but I also would feel extreme shame over being something I'm not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Yes, since the 3-wing is more prone to desintegrate. But the core drive of 3 is still achieving - a wing's purpose is to help, in that case the 4. So it will happen in one health level way or another.

    Read the second table. The elite is comprised of someone/people who stand(s) out and who is/are different from the rest, somewhat above, remote from the mainstream. If that's not what E4 is about!
    Your wing doesn't disintegrate.. your core type does. "a wings purpose is to help"? No, I don't believe in that theory and I've never heard that before. How do you mean it will help you if it also disintegrates according to you?

    Yes obviously 4s drive is to be unique, but it doesn't mean we think we are better than everyone else. It's more like the opposite, that we think there's something wrong with our DNA and we don't have something that everyone else has. 4w3 has times of romanticism around the uniqueness yes but I wouldnt go as far as to call it "elitism".
    w3 can find something sexy about their suffering, as opposed to w5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    Your wing doesn't disintegrate.. your core type does. "a wings purpose is to help"? No, I don't believe in that theory and I've never heard that before. How do you mean it will help you if it also disintegrates according to you?

    Yes obviously 4s drive is to be unique, but it doesn't mean we think we are better than everyone else. It's more like the opposite, that we think there's something wrong with our DNA and we don't have something that everyone else has. 4w3 has times of romanticism around the uniqueness yes but I wouldnt go as far as to call it "elitism".
    w3 can find something sexy about their suffering, as opposed to w5.
    Are you Te PoLR? Of course it disintegrates, the Enneagram is a dynamic tool, all types move along paths. If the dom type moves and the wing is static that wouldn't be congruent to the system.
    The wing's like the creative function or second instinct, in service to the default mode. The 3-wing only helps when stress (usually of the core fear, being worthless) is avoided, if not the 9-disintegration happens and apathy kicks in. Disintegration always happens through stress.

    It is elitism, but not from their perspective I know that from feedback I've gotten, me feeling and then acting all different makes me look like a snob, especially because my 3-influence gives me more assertion of this concept. E4s think they are defective and their compensation looks like elitism = specialization to others. You probably reject the term since it is classist and negative, but essentially it's just the concept of minority VS majority of something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Are you Te PoLR? Of course it disintegrates, the Enneagram is a dynamic tool, all types move along paths. If the dom type moves and the wing is static that wouldn't be congruent to the system.
    The wing's like the creative function or second instinct, in service to the default mode. The 3-wing only helps when stress (usually of the core fear, being worthless) is avoided, if not the 9-disintegration happens and apathy kicks in. Disintegration always happens through stress.

    It is elitism, but not from their perspective I know that from feedback I've gotten, me feeling and then acting all different makes me look like a snob, especially because my 3-influence gives me more assertion of this concept. E4s think they are defective and their compensation looks like elitism = specialization to others. You probably reject the term since it is classist and negative, but essentially it's just the concept of minority VS majority of something.
    What a lovely ad hominem.

    When I think of elitism I think of pretentiousness (which I have seen social 5s and others doing) and a us vs them, and 4 reject "us". It's not really elitism as much as it is a self-absorption. It can't be elitism if you consider yourself a worthless defective outsider.

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    Eh, E4s are elitist, at least they're elitist about their aestheticism.

    Actually I've been thinking, the aesthetic elitism might be low dimensionality Si.
    Last edited by Singu; 02-04-2017 at 12:53 PM.

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    Does knowing your wing actually matter? The enneagram system gives you plenty of material to work with even with only one basic type.
    Reason is a whore.

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    I know that, but I just need to know I need peace of mind. Also, clarity on who EXACTLY I am.

    C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479

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    The part about the dilemma when you find yourself attracted to someone is spot on! I mostly try to be what they would find attractive, eg type them then try and find out what they like in a girl and do that or act like their dual then feel guilty or not deserving later on because it's like living a lie. Is that a 4w3 tendency?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    Any description that says 4w3 are outgoing makes me cringe -_-

    Are you sure you don't have any shame? I used to think I didn't either but I feel shame over my identity, sometimes going into moods where I realize nothing about me means anything and is pointless. I could take things and make them into *me* but that's inauthentic. For example. I would feel extreme guilt over acting inauthentic because im triple reactive too. I have this inner dilemma when I'm attracted to someone I want to be what they find attractive to pull them in but I also would feel extreme shame over being something I'm not.
    I have average shame without guilt, I guess. I kind of refuse to feel guilt and live in a way where I have nothing to feel guilty about now. My worst bout of guilt was a couple years ago and it almost ate me up inside. If I drink too much and get out of control I can wake up feeling dread and shame to face people. I don't really drink anymore. I suppose I had issues of shame over things I had no control over as a child which I don't want to talk about here. I worked through those in therapy. I relate to competition in sx 4 more. I don't think I experience envy in the same way other 4s might. I can be extremely jealous though and it can make me lose control of myself under certain circumstances. I feel I have more self control now than I ever have. I know my triggers and I deal with them.

    I can spend long periods of time where I do not communicate with anyone. I have done days of silence which do not bother me. My friends and family do not usually disturb me when I go into my soft mode.


    Sexual Fours


    In the Sexual Four subtype, the inner motivation is envy, and its manifestation as competition. These Fours don't feel consciously envious so much as they feel competitive as a way of muting the pain associated with envy. If they can compete against another person they perceive as having more than they do and win, they can feel better about themselves.


    Sexual Fours believe it's good to be the best. Most people want to present a good image to others, but Sexual Fours don't care very much about image management or being liked. For them, it's better to be superior. They are highly competitive, and their intense focus on competition takes the form of actively striving to show that they are the best.


    People with this subtype tend to have an “all or nothing” belief related to success: if success is not all theirs, they are left with nothing. This pattern leads to excesses related to their efforts to achieve success, and it also generates feelings of hate.


    Sexual Fours are usually arrogant, despite having an underlying sense of inferiority. In the face of the pain of feeling misunderstood, an arrogant attitude is adopted as overcompensation- a means of being recognized. These Fours like being part of “chosen” group, and they can be very elitist. They may refuse to feel indebted to anyone, and they may have the sense that they have the exclusive right to feel offended by the lack of consideration of others. Any criticism or reproach is seen as an affront or disqualification.


    Envious anger dominates the expression of this subtype's unconscious instinctual impulses. Sexual Fours' deeper instinctual motivation is about a refusal to suffer the pain brought about by envy, and a need to reduce suffering by projecting the responsibility for meeting their needs onto others and minimizing others' accomplishments in comparison with their own.


    Sexual Fours “make others suffer” because they feel that they have been made to suffer and so need some sort of compensation. They may seek to hurt or punish others as an unconscious way of repudiating or minimizing their own pain. Naranjo observes that this tendency of this Four can be summed up by the phrase, “Hurt people hurt people.” Externalizing pain helps them ease their inner sense of inferiority. Their relationship to suffering can thus best be understood as a refusal to suffer. This gets expressed as an active insistence on their needs being validated and met. (They want with anger.) More shameless than shameful, Sexual Fours are vocal about expressing their needs; they rebel against any shame connected to their desires. This subtype follows the life philosophy that “the squeaky wheel gets the grease.”


    When others experience Sexual Fours as demanding, this can lead to a pattern of rejection and anger: Sexual Fours get mad when others don't meet their needs, but their demanding nature causes people to avoid or reject them, and then they get angry about being rejected. This type can thus get trapped in a vicious cycle when rejection leads to protest and protest leads to rejection.


    The Sexual Four is more assertive and angrier than the other subtypes. Naranjo refers to this Four as the “mad Four” as opposed to the “sad” (Social) Four. These Fours can be very outspoken with their anger because expression of anger is their way of defending against painful feelings. When they unconsciously turn their pain into anger, they don't have to feel their pain anymore.


    These Fours may even seek to hurt or punish others as a way of repudiating or minimizing their underlying pain. They feel justified in pointing to others as the source of their deprivation or frustration, which serves as both a distraction from their own role in their suffering and a plea for help and understanding.


    Naranjo says that this Four subtype can be the angriest personality among the Enneagram types. They may express envious anger as a way to establish or assert power when they feel inferior at a deeper level, which can be a way to manipulate situations to their advantage. (This kind of anger was the impulse between the French revolution: “I envy the rich, so I'll organize a revolution.”) And Sexual Fours can be very impulsive. They want things immediately and have little tolerance for frustration.


    Naranjo calls this type “Competition,” and Ichazo called it “Hate.” While this type can be both hateful and competitive, it is important to remember that the competition and hate expressed by this Four represents a deeper need to project their sense of suffering and inadequacy outward. The painful sense of envy felt by the Sexual Four can motivate a wishing with anger, or a sense of “Ive got to get what I need, both to convince myself that my needs aren't shameful, and to feel better about myself with respect to others.” Their competitiveness and anger is a compensation for and a defense against the hurt they feel underneath.


    These Fours like and need emotional intensity. Without intensity, everything can seem unbearably dull and boring. When Sexual Fours want somebody's love, they can be very direct about asking for what they need, or can become “extraordinary”- make themselves seem special and attractive and superior- in an effort to attract it. In line with their natural intensity (fueled by both their heart-based emotional temperament and their sexual instinct), these individuals tend to be more present and available in relationships because they don't deny or avoid many of the factors that can inhibit others relationally, like anger, neediness, competitiveness, arrogance, and having to be liked all the time. However, at times it may prove difficult for them to maintain a loving attitude because they confuse sweetness and benevolence with being false or insincere.


    Sexual Fours are most likely to be confused with Type Eights or Sexual Twos. Like Eights, they have easier access to anger than most types, but they differ from Eights in the wider range of emotions they regularly feel. Naranjo points out that Eights often don't need to get angry, whereas this Four frequently feels misunderstood or envious, so they may show anger more often. They can also look like Sexual “Aggressive-Seductive” Twos (because both types can be aggressive and seductive in relationships) but the Sexual Two is more oriented toward pleasing others.


    Roger, a Sexual Four, speaks:


    "The all-too-cumbersome online tests often report I am an Eight or a Three, but I know full well that I am a Sexual Four. My greatest friend in the world, my Type Five elder sister, once leaned over at an Enneagram workshop and underlined the word “hostility” in a description of the Sexual Four with her finger and told me, “You need to work on that.” I had to listen to her feedback because she has known me my entire life and so must be a reliable reporter. Of course, I had a finger to offer her regarding the work I thought she might have yet to address in her own life.


    Instead of feeling anything vulnerable in my personal life, I will often go to anger. Instead of experiencing myself as ordinary or less-than in my professional life, I will often go to competition, aggression, or even hostility. I don't relate to the descriptions of the over-sensitive, complaining (Social) Four: I go after my enemies or perceived adversaries who I feel threatened by directly rather than hanging out too long in discomfort. I also go after my objects of desire directly, and there are many. It may seem Threeish and Eightish that I need to be on top professional and personally. But although I pride myself on being direct and honest rather than nice, I know I am not an Eight because my Focus of Attention and my Achilles Heel is definitely Envy; it invigorates me to go after what I want (or take down the person who got what I didn't get). I know I am not a Three because I take more pride in being one-of-a-kind than in being successful. I own that I can come across as arrogant and even hostile if I feel threatened. This has not always served me well in either personal or professional relationships and this kind of response saddens me. Luckily, I have learned the value of staying with the softer feelings, experiencing my vulnerability, being with a great partner, and being one amongst many."


    Specific Work For The Sexual Four on the Path from Vice to Virtue


    Sexual fours can travel the path from envy to equanimity by strengthening their ability to be with their own suffering without needing to externalize it or project it onto others. If you are a Sexual Four, you can grow by seeing all your emotions as equally valuable and important, whether you are feeling envious and angry or sad and vulnerable. Your tender feelings are as important to consider as your competitive impulses. For you, equanimity means recognizing the value of who you are, even if you aren’t the best or superior to anyone else. No one has to prove themselves to be the best to be worthy- we are all inherently good enough. Allow yourself to see your anger, frustration, and impatience as important clues to deeper feelings of pain that you might be experiencing or relegating to unconsciousness. By allowing yourself to experience all your feelings and remembering they are all important reflections of the emotional truth of who you are, you can develop more compassion for yourself and others and allow yourself to be more open to receiving love and acceptance from the people around you.
    Last edited by Aylen; 02-07-2017 at 10:08 PM.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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  29. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaebette View Post
    Okay I'm sorry to post a thread on this subject AGAIN, but I'm seriously confused as to whether I'm 4w3 or 4w5.
    It's possible to have flavors of both wings attached to your type, you don't have to embrace one and fully drop the other. Which would make you 4ww35 or 4ww53 haha. Enneagram doesn't tunnel you into as set of a fixed model as Socionics, as we all possess aspects of the different types, some more central to our specific modality of being than others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Eh, E4s are elitist, at least they're elitist about their aestheticism.

    Actually I've been thinking, the aesthetic elitism might be low dimensionality Si.
    Explain this

    C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479

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    Idk I feel like 4w3s are rarer, that combo of motivations I have barely come across. Withdrawn and assertive in one. Depreciating “competitiveness” (because you’re still ordinary) while being good at it at the same time. I do feel like 4w5 would be more common, those energies seem to meld together better.

    but I’ve really only seen (online) people claim the opposite.


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    IME what it boils down to, is how creative energies are channeled. The whole 4w3 effete aristocrat and 4w5 iconoclast stereotype always struck me as silly, even when I self-typed as the latter. Where I see the difference, is that 4w3s are more compelled to find an outlet for the projections involved in what they internalize, whereas 4w5s more easily inhabit the space this process gives rise to, and construct in kind.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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