IEIs/INFps: imagination, aloofness, and being dreamy

[normal]

IMO, everybody daydreams...

[parcel]

Are there any IEI’s out there that have experienced becoming a victim of their own imagination? I have been imagining lots of future scenarios recently so much so that I had convinced myself that they were going to happen and it has just dawned on me that I’m not living in reality.
Also I’m very aloof and it’s really starting to frustrate me! I was in a 3 hr meeting and all I said was hello and goodbye. Every-time I wanted to say something I missed my chance...sigh. They must all think I’m a mute or a simpleton. Are other IEI’s aloof or is it just me? If so does it frustrate the hell out of you too?

Yep. But when and why depends. I find that if I'm not aloof then some are likely to mistake niceness for stupidity, and try to take advantage. But if you act a bit like a tough cookie and seem to be above it all, some will have more respect for you. Not something I want to have to do, but it often seems necessary.

[eliza]

.....

[silverchris9]

lol. I don't think that the dreamy bit is exaggerated really. I'm quite dreamy... at times. I just also know how to work. I will say that the work aspect has come a lot through education, through being taught, rather than through natural aptitude.

Anyway, yes, the descriptions can be somewhat unbalanced, and just because you're actually capable of going out and doing things in the real world, does not mean you're not IEI. And it's not necessarily overdeveloped Ti. In fact, the thing that you said about not wanting to fool yourself is very much related to Ni metacognition (I'm very focused on not letting myself deceive myself). I think the capacity to go beyond this sort of ideal world and to touch the ground long enough to, you know, be alive and not float around in the clouds all the time (and who will you talk to, but the birds, and the occasional teacherly angel, with horn-rimmed glasses and her hair pulled back in a smart bun?) isn't related to a particular socionics function, but to growing as a human being period. A lot of it is just not being inert/lazy.

[strrrng]

They somewhat exaggerate, but it's not like they have a lot more to go on. From what I recall, there's no way an IEI wrote those descriptions, and the drawbacks of Augusta's reductionism are obvious.

Basically what you have is a tendency to conceptualize 'real' events in mythical extensions; in this way scenarios begin to repeat themselves, and it's through this ideational consistency that the IEI can actually begin to see their relevance. Thus, the "aid" of an SLE comes not from machismo pressure and bitch-slaps (frankly, I loathe anyone who tries to 'push' me into anything - and inducing kinetic energy is a dynamic mentality, i.e. LSE), but giving very simple and concrete indicators of where the IEI actually stands. Now the IEI is forced to meld their 'myths' with what is undeniably present, which makes the internal progression of it all more meaningful for the SLE.

I will admit that I would probably die without daydreams, but that's only because people are stupid and lack aesthetic sensibilities.

and who will you talk to, but the birds, and the occasional teacherly angel, with horn-rimmed glasses and her hair pulled back in a smart bun?

the birds are always fun lol

[Gilly]

Real IEI description:

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...Socioscope_IEI

[stray]

I don't consider myself "dreamy" either. And as for poetry, I've always been better with nuances in timbre or melody, if anything. Not diction. I can identify with strnnng's post, and I understand what he means about the conceptualizing, and seeing reality in mythical expressions, but it's not all that pronounced. I'm still here. I know what "reality" is. I'm getting close to retyping ISFp or ISTp. Fuck it. Less baggage anyways. I could be an individual that way at least, instead of some mystical "faggy" poet in a waistcoat, with a psychotic blowhard rapist for a dual. This shit ain't gonna work out. Lemme tell ya..

[strrrng]

And as for poetry, I've always been better with nuances in timbre or melody, if anything. Not diction.

Yeah, whenever I've written poetry it's been based on a feel of the meter and syllabic harmony; it seemed intuitive to me that the inherent rhythm of words would produce the right ideas?

I could be an individual that way at least, instead of some mystical "faggy" poet in a waistcoat, with a psychotic blowhard rapist for a dual. This shit ain't gonna work out. Lemme tell ya..

lmfao. I would prefer a dual who knows how to act and doesn't expect me to. That way I can just guide them and they can give me drugs and such.

[silverchris9]

I write on sound a lot too, which is why I end up gravitating towards iambic pentameter. I write on sound and ideas. Picking the right word is as much about the sound and how it fits in the rhythm of the line as anything else. I've written lots of poems that were sound poems only, that were, as far as I can tell, more rhetorical than meaning based, or at least more rhetorical than planned.

What is diction beyond how a word sounds? The meaning matters of course, but I don't consciously pay attention to anything but the subjective feel of how the line sounds and what I'm trying to communicate. I guess diction is the bridge between those two, but like I said, I don't focus on that... shrug.

Then again, I do pick up on word nuances, so I see what you're saying. Like, I notice how the word confess means both to take confession from and to confess to. Or the difference between confess and admit, beyond just the sound of the two words. They do mean something slightly different. Confess is more heightened, probably because of the legal and religious associations. So yeah, I guess I do pay attention to the words part of poetry as separate from both sound and idea. Shrug. Changed my mind in the course of the pun.

the birds are always fun lol

Depends on what kind of bird. I find mockingbirds insufferable. And lark farts are the worst. AND they tend to be gassy, so you know. Thrushes are okay, and when I come across a phoenix I always stop to have a conversation, but afterwards I check my pulse 'cause I might be dead or crazy. But I try never to be too sure about whether or not I am; my feet burn like fire when they touch the ground.

[strrrng]

well diction is just an extension of inherent rhythm. the genesis of language is a distortion of certain wave frequencies to express what has already been internally filtered (largely by the CNS, hence the 'vertical' nature of speech); there is no 'meaning' until what has already been understood primordially begins to arrange itself according to its own rules; the subject has to grasp them heuristically. this is how 'images' (imagos) differentiate, i.e. sound frequencies fade into what one would perceive as moving photographs, hence color having direct relations to pitch (along with the fact that visual perceptions are registered in the lower-most portion of the hindbrain, after being reversed through the retinal lenses and optic tracks, i.e. you see what you already did). you can find older occult/religious texts alluding to these processes with the metaphors about 'the word' and 'the breath,' even though most literature has diluted them.

[redbaron]

Real IEI description:

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...Socioscope_IEI

yes!

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Dreams and visions aren't bad things. Reality is largely what you choose and make something to be.

Haven't you ever set your mind on something that simply no matter what's going to happen here, you're gonna keep a pleasant mood about it? And your upbeat attitude was sort of infections and it caused everybody to lighten up about whatever endeavor they were trying to get themselves involved in?

You just changed reality, on such a high level...

You say it lacks realism. Bulshit. It's actually more objectively real than anything you could do. And furthermore, a stinking pile of shit is real. It doesn't mean one should stick their head in the 'shit' just because it's "Real" something that annoys me about esfjs. Why would anybody do that, heaven forbid just because it's 'Real.'

They're doing that because they have such a strong belief that real life is always 'hard and painful' and so if they're not continuously putting their head in 'filth' then they're not living or something. They're being a weak, emo pussy.

Dreams have just as much of a substance core as the outside world, as long as it's honest. And even if it's not all that honest so what. A plastic tree is still a tree nonetheless even if it wasn't a tree grown from the ground. The point is that it's all real. Or it wouldn't have happened.

And bad things will come. But sometimes we hold onto those painful bad things because we think that it means something and that it made us tougher but now it's just this heavy lead that's dragging us down. It's called getting over it, feeling the pain and simply....moving on. Letting the clogged turds finally flush down the toilet.

And then this esfj got jealous and upset with me because I wanted to spend all day doing nothing but playing video games , like excuse me but instead of being jealous why don't you sit your butt right over here and join me. =/ lol.

[redbaron]

Dreams and visions aren't bad things. Reality is largely what you choose and make something to be.

Haven't you ever set your mind on something that simply no matter what's going to happen here, you're gonna keep a pleasant mood about it? And your upbeat attitude was sort of infections and it caused everybody to lighten up about whatever endeavor they were trying to get themselves involved in?

You just changed reality, on such a high level...

You say it lacks realism. Bulshit. It's actually more objectively real than anything you could do. And furthermore, a stinking pile of shit is real. It doesn't mean one should stick their head in the 'shit' just because it's "Real" something that annoys me about esfjs. Why would anybody do that, heaven forbid just because it's 'Real.'

They're doing that because they have such a strong belief that real life is always 'hard and painful' and so if they're not continuously putting their head in 'filth' then they're not living or something. They're being a weak, emo pussy.

Dreams have just as much of a substance core as the outside world, as long as it's honest. And even if it's not all that honest so what. A plastic tree is still a tree nonetheless even if it wasn't a tree grown from the ground. The point is that it's all real. Or it wouldn't have happened.

And bad things will come. But sometimes we hold onto those painful bad things because we think that it means something and that it made us tougher but now it's just this heavy lead that's dragging us down. It's called getting over it, feeling the pain and simply....moving on. Letting the clogged turds finally flush down the toilet.

And then this esfj got jealous and upset with me because I wanted to spend all day doing nothing but playing video games , like excuse me but instead of being jealous why don't you sit your butt right over here and join me. =/ lol.

[redbaron]

"do not look for the meaning of their words, listen to their music!"

"the soul is always stretched taut like a string, which at any moment will break with the ringing! and it will be turned into echo...no music, and life! Ready? Then go."

OMG I never read this before:

"Unfortunately, in the childhood it can reveal strong conformism, constant readiness to be joined in the voice of majority. In this case its basic vital rule acquires new sounding - to think “as all” do, to act “as all” do, in nothing not to be separated and not to lag behind these “all”. And it turns out that its personality to a great extent is the product of medium and environment significant for it. It becomes sufficiently noncritical to the information, which enters from without. Everything will be true for it, that speak “their”, which it is inclined to idealize. "



that's me.

[stray]

"do not look for the meaning of their words, listen to their music!"

"the soul is always stretched taut like a string, which at any moment will break with the ringing! and it will be turned into echo...no music, and life! Ready? Then go."

OMG I never read this before:

"Unfortunately, in the childhood it can reveal strong conformism, constant readiness to be joined in the voice of majority. In this case its basic vital rule acquires new sounding - to think “as all” do, to act “as all” do, in nothing not to be separated and not to lag behind these “all”. And it turns out that its personality to a great extent is the product of medium and environment significant for it. It becomes sufficiently noncritical to the information, which enters from without. Everything will be true for it, that speak “their”, which it is inclined to idealize. "



that's me.

I don't see my self much different as a child than I am now. Worse in some ways. I didn't have much respect for people's property, for one. I stole a lot. Otherwise, maybe too many of the pressures around me demanded so much conformism that it just backfired.. for example, my dad was a military guy who wanted to give his son crew cuts and be good at all of the sports he was. I mean, I love my dad, but you can see how that would play out. And I didn't do well with peers either. If they were all tight rolling the bottom of their jeans and dancing to Rob Base, I was wondering wtf was wrong with them. One of the first people I looked up to was this headbanger that hung around outside a bowling alley my parents went to. He kind of reminded me of Charlie Sheen in Ferris Bueller's. He taught me how to slamdance. I told him one day that I wanted to be just like him.. but that stressed him out, I think. He knew he was a fuckup.

[tcaudilllg]

"do not look for the meaning of their words, listen to their music!"

"the soul is always stretched taut like a string, which at any moment will break with the ringing! and it will be turned into echo...no music, and life! Ready? Then go."

OMG I never read this before:

"Unfortunately, in the childhood it can reveal strong conformism, constant readiness to be joined in the voice of majority. In this case its basic vital rule acquires new sounding - to think “as all” do, to act “as all” do, in nothing not to be separated and not to lag behind these “all”. And it turns out that its personality to a great extent is the product of medium and environment significant for it. It becomes sufficiently noncritical to the information, which enters from without. Everything will be true for it, that speak “their”, which it is inclined to idealize. "



that's me.

That's non-partisan Ni for you.

[silke]

Does anyone else think the descriptions of IEI in socionics exagerates the whole "dreamy" "hopless romantic" "poetic" traits to a point where you can't fully relate to ths socionic type?

The "idealistic dreamer" part I believe comes from having Se as lowest-order valued function. It leads to a sort of dissociation with the present concrete physical world in favor of an internalized abstraction of it. Problem is that nobody else can see that particular abstraction besides yourself, hence it is compared to a dream or an idealized image of course. I can't really contend that one, but to note that a small portion of these abstractions do turn into ideas of actual merit (hence the famous IEIs personalities).

The part about being "poetic" if taken literally applies only to INFJs with verbal cognitive style. I can count the amount of poems I've written in my life on one hand.

I completely relate to Myers-Briggs INFJ description and use of the main functions.

really? the MBTI description told me that I am supposed to be psychic and have prophetic dreams ... but I guess that's an upgrade from the faggy poet who is waiting to get raped that stray is describing

I think my Ti's developed as I've gotten older and socionics overlooks that, maybe.

socionics doesn't go into this, but from what I've observed mobilizing IE does become stronger starting around early-to-mid 20s ... though Ti doesn't really grant any more objectivity, quite to the contrary

[strrrng]

I didn't really relate to that conformity part per se, but I do often shift my mood and expression to the environment, both for efficiency and to surface various aspects of myself. So many roles, might as well just revel in them all.

[silverchris9]

I change huge aspects of myself depending on my environment. But I never change the absolute core of myself; I try not to change that even from when I was a child, although sometimes I have to, but at least it's voluntary and/or extremely gradual and therefore continuous. So long as there's a part of me that doesn't change with my environment, I don't mind conforming.

[stray]

So it sounds kind of typical. I'm just not like this, for better or worse. Not that I try to go out of my way to be uber-independent or difficult, but I guess I have more traits that reflects more of that than not.

I always associated the blending with Type 9 like qualities. I thought it could be Alpha SF/"+Fe" too, but I'm not sure what to think about that yet.

[strrrng]

I change huge aspects of myself depending on my environment. But I never change the absolute core of myself; I try not to change that even from when I was a child, although sometimes I have to, but at least it's voluntary and/or extremely gradual and therefore continuous. So long as there's a part of me that doesn't change with my environment, I don't mind conforming.

Yeah, I figure if you can feel yourself in every moment, you're only lost in the revelation itself.

[Froody Blue Gem]

I tend to spend a lot of time in the innerworld of my imagination. It is a place to retreat to when the real world becomes hectic, and something I need to do to keep sane. Of course, it's a balance of being in the real world, keeping to myself, and bouncing ideas around. Being in my own world also helps me come up with ideas for my creative projects.

They tend to come when I least expect them. While it is usually a positive, when under stress or dealing with difficult people is when I tend to imagine worst-case scenario situations. There are times when these thoughts come true but a lot of the time, it's just overthinking and projection. Once my mind is clear, I am better at seeing things for what they are. I prepare in advanced for what I will say to people, how situations will play out.

Listening to music, reading a book, drinking a coffee help when stress leads to this. While I tend to be future oriented, there are a lot of unknowns in the longterm which can be scary when these things rear their heads.

[InterPrizeWes]

Imagination endows booming chronicles of fine tuning and spell weaving for marking the tamed puffed up clouds.

To always be thinking, looking within, snoring into oceanic crayolas and souvenir praying anchors any enigma to the soul strand of conception by rose fleeting dreams of the highest dawn, no matter how underpowered or forgotten of a piece in the milky way.

[Stray Cat]

IEI imagination is only shitty when it's delusional or not grounded in any reality. Hit up your Se, check in with your Fe.

[DEAD]

IEI imagination is only shitty when it's delusional or not grounded in any reality. Hit up your Se, check in with your Fe.

Yeah, what's the point in imagining things if you can't do them?

[eiemo]

IEI imagination is only shitty when it's delusional or not grounded in any reality. Hit up your Se, check in with your Fe.

I don’t think that I am an IEI, but EIE-Ni is likely.

I would definitely say that my imagination often involves Se in the sense that I think of having control, strenuous activity, and achievement.

A weakness that I have to work on is to stop thinking about ways to gain control.

[HookahGirl420]

my imagination has helped me make decisions that aren't immediately obvious to make based on present circumstances, which is great. "Hm... it would make sense to do this, but what if I didn't and did something completely different and surprised myself and everyone?" <-- my line of thinking. Rational decisions can be too limiting and straightforward to the point of being misguided, so I just take a chance and do something batshit insane since it will probably go just as well anyways..

Having a large family of conservative logical delta STs really irritates me into regularly enticing chaos to fuck me in the ass. And I never take questions from anyone. You will just have to endure my psyche the way I endure it.

[DEAD]

Not everything you imagine can be done. But they can give you insight.

It's meaningless, unless the insight leads to something useful.

[persimmonism]

It's meaningless, unless the insight leads to something useful.

Well that applies to actions too

[DEAD]

Well that applies to actions too

Yeah, but it's better to act and do something about things than just waste time mentally masturbating over the situation.

You can act in the moment too, you know?

[ashlesha]

Even when actions don't lead directly in a direction you want, they lead in a direction that could go in a circuitous route or into a place yet to be mapped. They do *something*

[persimmonism]

Yeah, but it's better to act and do something about things than just waste time mentally masturbating over the situation.

You can act in the moment too, you know?

Yes and likewise, action without reflection can still be counterproductive.
Balance is best: Ni/Se and everything each entails don't oppose, but complement each other, so this is kind of a meaningless debate.

[persimmonism]

Yeah, in theory it's best but not everyone can work like that.

Balance is hard to achieve, which I guess is why there is a creative function and duals, we'll agree there.

Who said it was a debate? I never did.

Yeah, fair enough =)
From my POV, it's a discussion with two different perspectives, therefore a debate. I didn't mean we were arguing or anything.

[DEAD]

Yeah, fair enough =)
From my POV, it's a discussion with two different perspectives, therefore a debate. I didn't mean we were arguing or anything

Yeah, when I think of a debate it's like one of those YouTube videos, with a referee, introduction and the opposing sides. All structured, this is more us discussing our thoughts. To me anyway.

[Stray Cat]

Decent points made, honestly. Ni can be very insightful & perceptive but does best with sufficient concrete data from reality

Se without complimentary Ni tends to be superficial. IF one has to overindulge, kinda better to do the lead but the reason we have 4 valued functions is that they can each bring some psychological satisfaction. If one has a buddy to help supplement that can be fuckin' awesome.

[The Reality Denialist]

To me Ni/Se egos are about reflection/action allocation in terms of going towards the pot full of gold in the end of the rainbow. It is funny how you guys try to dodge it but still manage to spill it everywhere.

[rose]

Decent points made, honestly. Ni can be very insightful & perceptive but does best with sufficient concrete data from reality

Se without complimentary Ni tends to be superficial. IF one has to overindulge, kinda better to do the lead but the reason we have 4 valued functions is that they can each bring some psychological satisfaction. If one has a buddy to help supplement that can be fuckin' awesome.

Yeah, they say Ni works well with few informations, but that's only true if the person has a lot of info from the past to rely on. No one just randomly shits solutions or insights, they come from somewhere even if we can't track that place.
Ni is a dumb function you gotta build over time, you're never truly done building it. That has advantages and disadvantages, like all functions.
It gives a great imagination that you either direct or drown in.

[Stray Cat]

Yeah, they say Ni works well with few informations, but that's only true if the person has a lot of info from the past to rely on. No one just randomly shits solutions or insights, they come from somewhere even if we can't track that place.
Ni is a dumb function you gotta build over time, you're never truly done building it. That has advantages and disadvantages, like all functions.
It gives a great imagination that you either direct or drown in.

Yeah. No arguments there. Objective take by you

My IEI buddy got smitten by an EII on the 'net. One reason she dug him was his interest in flicks. He had a room exclusively for DVDs. In her mind, they'd meet & hit up the movie theater on the regular. Problem with that was this EII hated places like that, preferred being home. The IEi created this image in her mind that stemmed for one singular detail, a detail she cherry picked while ignoring contrary info. She attached symbolic meaning to the EII that her Ni created. Her Se was just used as a tool to feed the Ni monster.

[ashlesha]

Yeah. No arguments there. Objective take by you

My IEI buddy got smitten by an EII on the 'net. One reason she dug him was his interest in flicks. He had a room exclusively for DVDs. In her mind, they'd meet & hit up the movie theater on the regular. Problem with that was this EII hated places like that, preferred being home. The IEi created this image in her mind that stemmed for one singular detail, a detail she cherry picked while ignoring contrary info. She attached symbolic meaning to the EII that her Ni created. Her Se was just used as a tool to feed the Ni monster.

this gave me the satisfaction of feeling better than my IEI ex until i came to think about what Ni HA can do without Ne to see the other cherries

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Meh, there's just many layers to this sort of thing.

Would you rather have a cheap plastic fork that easily breaks but is technically 'useful' by definition?
Would you rather eat with an expensive, orante looking fork that costs too much for what it actually does but you still like it cuz it makes you feel more sophisticated and better than other people?
Would you rather have a mediocre fork from Wal-mart that works/is useful in a very average way but kinda makes you feel dead inside due to your soulless middle class existance?
Would you rather supervise it up and think of an idea/scheme to exploit ppl to buy forks while you live in a rich mansion?
Would you rather 'just imagine' you had a fork- but you actually are homeless on the streets eating out of your hands because your Te was so bad?