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    Default Subtypes in Duality Relations

    I changed my mind. Subtypes are a very important aspect to socionics.

    For example as an IEI-Ni, I'm definitely most attracted to SLE-Se rather than SLE-Ti.

    Also, there is just too many differences between the subtypes to ignore them. I thought this difference was subtle and in a way, it is. But it's kinda like having 3 different major buffs in world of warcraft - which can be a huge deal you know. It makes quite a big difference between identical types, I'd say between 15-20% (rough estimate).

    I'm the more withdrawn 'lost' type of IEI, the type that's more stoic and less of a people person, Fe subtypes are just different. They're more cheery, bubbly and enthused. Also IEI-Fes can be extroverts in the MBTI sense. I don't think IEI-Nis can be extroverts.

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    Hmmm, every time I read the differences between the subtypes described, I think I have to be Ni sub.

    *random comment*

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    I think an example of an IEI-Fe extrovert is that one guy from the old willy wonka movie, didn't he play willy wonka?

    Gene Wilder! Yes, that's it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    I changed my mind. Subtypes are a very important aspect to socionics.

    For example as an IEI-Ni, I'm definitely most attracted to SLE-Se rather than SLE-Ti.
    Exactly. Good observing!

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    I'm IEE-Ne and find SLI-Si far more attractive than SLI-Te.
    [] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    I'm IEE-Ne and find SLI-Si far more attractive than SLI-Te.
    Nice. Oke let's settle it then. Same subtypes are better then differing subtypes.

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    Default Subtypes in Duality Relations

    I thought I read this from a few areas, that in socionics, the most compatable dual relation (when subtype is given) is when one type is of leading subtype and their dual is of creative subtype, visa versa. I don't see how this idea is explained, but I've gotten it from a few sources and various vibes. What is the answer?

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    polikujm, where is the sources?
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    anyway, duality is not everything
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
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    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carla View Post
    Semi-duality is everything! Mwahahahahahaha
    Carla I've saved enough money for you NOT to do any research for the NEXT ten years! forget the boring math and dance with me in the Bahamas.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carla View Post
    lolz Let's do it!
    Show me your hands, we are not going to stop, just try not to look back.

    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carla View Post
    Semi-duality is everything!
    nope.

    if duality is not everything --> conflicting is not nothing --> conflicting is something


    Mwahahahahahaha
    jajajajajajaja
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    *End of anti-carla operations*

    Let's get back to the thread:
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    if duality is not everything --> conflicting is not nothing --> conflicting is something
    I agree. Theoretically speaking, some misguided IEI might become curious about how would he interact with a LSE girl and might end up smoking marijuana and having rather nice sex. Theoretically!
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    I be keepin all my subtypes in one basket, if you know what I fuckin mean

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    anyway, duality is not everything
    anyway, since you can't come up with a more catchy theory . . .



    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post
    polikujm, where is the sources?
    I don't recall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    anyway, since you can't come up with a more catchy theory . . .





    I don't recall.
    Oh ok, because that if there is, it contradicts a lot of what it is not suppose to be when we talk about subtypes.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    I have not read that anywhere. Usually I read that it's perceiving subtype with perceiving subtype and judging subtype with judging subtype. I find this to make more sense both in theory and from personal observations.
    +1

    This is what I've come to think as well, based on what I've read and seen irl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    I thought I read this from a few areas, that in socionics, the most compatable dual relation (when subtype is given) is when one type is of leading subtype and their dual is of creative subtype, visa versa. I don't see how this idea is explained, but I've gotten it from a few sources and various vibes. What is the answer?
    it's certainly not true.

    We've had a thread on it, last month or so.

    All the subscribers said they had clearly the best compatibility/magnetism between corresponding subtypes.

    Which has been my experience also.

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    In the past i've deliberated a little over which ones the best. In practice has shown me that judging function sub type goes better with judging function sub type, and perceiving subs go better together.

    The theory behind it makes most sense to me as well.

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    Default Re-Examining Subtype Duality

    In this dualization article:

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=34095

    it states:

    "Douala should "get used" to each other, learn recognize the signals given by different functions. Until that happens, there are inconsistencies and misunderstandings. dualization relations are most favorable for the types with different subtypes: if one is stronger rational function, then the other must be irrational subtype - more developed an irrational function (Sancho Panza and Don Quixote, Niels Bohr and Bohr, Margaret - "tight" and "slim" types: logical "Don Quixote" and touch "Dumas"). "

    "It is the fact that the human psyche developed unevenly, forcing search Douala. After dualization mental balance is restored, disappears se "bias" which may give rise to conflicts, tensions between people. We must note one important fact. If the subtypes do not match (two rational or two irrational), then partners. seem more simple. Hence - the loss of interest in each other. In addition, value-cultural orientation, if they are different, can impede dualization. It plays the role of the law of psychology: innate qualities of individuals must be additional, and acquired education - similar. Gap adverse subtypes can leave their enemies, especially if it's political leaders (eg, ethical subtype of "Hamlet" - Trotsky and logical subtype of "Gorky" - Joseph Stalin, the political rivalry that escalated into severe hostility in Unlike the intuitive "Hamlet" - Molotov, Stalin, who took the program and unconditionally followed it all his life). I must say that man, finding the duality feels psychic protection, comfort and safety, which greatly facilitates his life. The fact that the problems are for most excruciating Pego, are the source of his mistakes, doubts and anxieties, it is best resolved its dual. Douala quickly soothe each other.
    "

    any thoughts on this?
    Last edited by thePirate; 01-14-2011 at 08:42 PM. Reason: more of description
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    From the duals I know with subtypes, I agree that rational-irrational pairing works better.

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    "until that happens, there are inconsistencies and misunderstandings. dualization relations are most favorable for the types with different subtypes: if one is stronger rational function, then the other must be irrational subtype - more developed an irrational function"
    = Duality relations with Jx/Px subtypes is more beneficial than Jx/Jx or Px/Px?

    "We must note one important fact. If the subtypes do not match (two rational or two irrational),
    = (Jx/Jx or Px/Px I'm assuming)

    then partners. seem more simple. Hence - the loss of interest in each other."
    Isn't this a negative value judgment?

    I'm not following the logic/language here. I thought it said Jx/Px is more beneficial, but then it says if you have Jx/Px you get a loss of interest, so I'm assuming they don't go together, unless you're in a universe where the subtypes do not match (beneficial) but they're..less interesting (non beneficial)? Ugh!

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    Dolphin, I agree it's confusing. As I understand it, duals can pass each other by, if they're a better fit sub type then this is even easier, as it's or they are too 'simple' seeming at first. Don't know about you but people seem more attracted to those where there's some sort of challenge at first, which can make it initially exciting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    Dolphin, I agree it's confusing. As I understand it, duals can pass each other by, if they're a better fit sub type then this is even easier, as it's or they are too 'simple' seeming at first. Don't know about you but people seem more attracted to those where there's some sort of challenge at first, which can make it initially exciting.
    Okay that makes sense. So what this is saying is Jx/Px > Jx/Jx or Px/Px via actual compatibility but Jx/Jx or Px/Px > Jx/Px via beginning interest level?

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    I find Ni EIEs more exciting, more enrapturing, but I also get a sense that we'd fight a lot, albeit in a horny dual way. It's a very intense attraction, rippling with lust and sensuousness. But still, we have to have a lot of things in common for this to work out.

    Fe EIEs are awesome, because they always respond in just the right way to everything I say. Every silly comment I make is taken positively, and it's very easy for me to make them laugh, and the constant Fe reinforcement makes me feel badass. They also seem generally more fun and upbeat, and their anxieties are easy for me to calm.

    Overall, I'd prefer an Fe EIE. Even though it's not as intense romantically, it's much more blissful, effortless, and, in the long run, happier.

    So yeah, that article can lick my butthole.

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    how far down does the rabbit hole go?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chip View Post
    how far down does the rabbit hole go?
    A looong way down. The realm of subtypes is a crazy one indeed.
    just make something up and go with it.

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    anyone else feeling the strain of subtypes?

  30. #30
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    I wouldn't call it a strain, no, but comparing my two close friends, I can tell the difference in how things developed (hint: Ti-ILE, VERY STORMILY).

    That's easily attributable to the Ti-ILE being a fellow sx-first male, though. And also having to deal with me being cranky due to an important relationship of mine breaking down.

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    From a philosophical standpoint socionic calculations has no truth but only the appearance of truth. A classic maxim for truth is when the word agrees with the object. The word refers to logos or speech. A mathematical calculation of the mind nullifies subjective experience in which the individual is scrutinized as an inanimate object. How can socionic practice call themselves humanistic when their methods include calculations that befit measuring the human mind no different from measuring engine fluid?

    I do not disagree there is subtypes and such but calculations of the conscious mind is offensive to my tastes. I do not deny the pinpoint accuracy but I can not accept such a mechanical interpretation of the human being. I consider the mind to be organic much like the body. As the body is naturally suited toward equilibrium so to is the mind. In the same manner as the body naturally heals wounds so to does the mind but one is leaf scarred and vulnerable.

    The entirety of an individual can not be measured crudely. The individual is energetically entwined with the energy felt by and with others. As is commonly spoken and heard a person feels a certain affinity for another due to a sense of sharing the same vibrations and riding the same wave length.

    Calculations of such magnitude extend knowledge beyond human experience but experience is what gives birth to wisdom. What we have here is a layout of the precise order of socionic intertype relations inwhich only a brain living inside a jar can appreciate since the brain can not experience much else except knowledge of what life is like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chip View Post
    From a philosophical standpoint socionic calculations has no truth but only the appearance of truth. A classic maxim for truth is when the word agrees with the object. The word refers to logos or speech. A mathematical calculation of the mind nullifies subjective experience in which the individual is scrutinized as an inanimate object. How can socionic practice call themselves humanistic when their methods include calculations that befit measuring the human mind no different from measuring engine fluid?

    I do not disagree there is subtypes and such but calculations of the conscious mind is offensive to my tastes. I do not deny the pinpoint accuracy but I can not accept such a mechanical interpretation of the human being. I consider the mind to be organic much like the body. As the body is naturally suited toward equilibrium so to is the mind. In the same manner as the body naturally heals wounds so to does the mind but one is leaf scarred and vulnerable.

    The entirety of an individual can not be measured crudely. The individual is energetically entwined with the energy felt by and with others. As is commonly spoken and heard a person feels a certain affinity for another due to a sense of sharing the same vibrations and riding the same wave length.

    Calculations of such magnitude extend knowledge beyond human experience but experience is what gives birth to wisdom. What we have here is a layout of the precise order of socionic intertype relations inwhich only a brain living inside a jar can appreciate since the brain can not experience much else except knowledge of what life is like.
    good post!

    Though classical socionics itself does not use those calculations, rather some people on this forum. Socionics is very much focussed on energy (subconscious) and information (conscious) exchange between two people's minds.

  33. #33
    Creepy-female

    Default Duality and subtypes

    So I know there are some threads related to this but as far as I remember, none offered a very clear consensus, so I'm making a new thread cuz this is interesting.

    Duality and subtypes.

    Ji + Je and Pi + Pe OR Ji + Pi and Je + Pe?

    Is one better? Or do they just have different qualities? How do the various subtype pairings affect duality? Is the difference meaningful? What have you observed? Compare/contrast...ETC

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    Not a consensus, but I recently shared my ideas on this in the Delta Lounge in delta subforum, p90-91, posts 3575, 3580, 3628.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Not a consensus, but I recently shared my ideas on this in the Delta Lounge in delta subforum, p90-91, posts 3575, 3580, 3628.
    I read that when you posted it It's one of the ideas that got me to wondering about this.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    Ji + Je and Pi + Pe
    This one. I've kind of wondered if activity partners with corresponding subtypes would work better than duality with different subtypes. Would need more personal experience with both kinds though.

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    I thought there was clear consensus.

    Same subtypes is better.

    So accepting + accepting, and producing + producing.

    accepting + producing = worse

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    What Jarno 'n' Galen said.

    It arises from duality of functions. Fe and Ti are dual functions, not Fe and Ne, for example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    I've kind of wondered if activity partners with corresponding subtypes would work better than duality with different subtypes. Would need more personal experience with both kinds though.
    no duals are always better than activity IMO. They have this extra special flavour that you just don't get with activation.
    Last edited by Jarno; 09-09-2011 at 04:38 PM.

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    No, it takes the most work to get started (<keyword for the not so observant). That's explicitly mentioned in the duality descriptions if you ever bothered to read them. Duals live in different worlds. The functions are on opposing ends- it takes alot to bring them together. Its not from just 1 example, so fuck yourself. Marriage stats are a terrible contention since only the very best relationships become marriages. But any hot female will have cocks flopping onto them like running salmon, not like they have to actually try to form a relationship... maybe that's your issue.
    Last edited by rat1; 09-10-2011 at 05:32 AM.

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