Subtypes: Te-INTp or Ni-ENTj (Te-ILI vs. Ni-LIE)

[Park]

I'll give it a shot. Hopefully, I don't make things more confusing. First, I don’t think you’re Fi polr. Fi polr folks are those that tend to “step on toes” without even realizing it. They’re more about the general sentiment, and unless it’s pointed out, may not know how they’ve affected someone individually. This is not to say that they don’t care about individual relationships or feel just as deeply about people, but they’re not socially aware in an individual sense. They’re the ones who come in and say something extremely rude to someone without even knowing just how rude they were being. IOW, it’s not on purpose.

I'd just like to add that IMO, Fi PoLR is not about "saying" insensitive things as much as it is about "doing" insensitive things, being oblivious to the quality and nuances in interpersonal bonds and ignoring (or putting very little value to) subjective feelings between and towards people when acting and making important decisions. All logical types are about equally prone to appearing rude and saying insensitive things to people without realizing the impact or having good control over their emotions, it's how they treat/act/put-themselves-in-front-of people in the long run that makes the difference between Fi and Fe PoLR/Role/Super-Id.

Great post overall, btw.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Azeroffs]

Your answers contradict your LIE typing or at least don't confirm it...



sounds rather ILI. especially monotone and distant contradicts LIE

IP temperament, LIE's are often clearly competitive and demanding

inconclusive, to general

introverted and/or perceiving, certainly not the typical EJ temperament

True, I identify with ILI in more ways. Maybe I'm just good at hiding my Fe PoLR?

[crazedrat]

no, you're just LIE-Ni

[Azeroffs]

no, you're just LIE-Ni

do you really think that fits in with everything here? I think it does, but I'm not comfortable enough to say for certain.

[Azeroffs]

Emboldened things that apply. I relate to almost everything said about Te-ILI and Ni-LIE, so I figured I'd look at the subtypes I know I'm not. I figure the one I'm more like is the type I'm more like. I know this isn't the most accurate thing to go by, but it's just another thing to consider.

Wikisocion:

ILI

Intuitive subtype: (The Philosopher)

(Valentine Meged & Anatoly Ovcharov) The intuitive subtype seems to be a quiet, counterbalanced, even sluggish person. Their movements are smooth and slow. They’re internally timid but they attempt to hide this under a mask of irony. Are tactful, polite, and scrupulous. Tries to avoid straightforwardness and criticisms in their conversations; are affable and kind but seldom smile. Despite their attempts to hide weakness they are, nonetheless, internally rather sensitive, inconsistent and vulnerable; thus they often find themselves suppressed and dissatisfied, and from this stems negative moods and emotions. Their moods may further be afflicted due to the state of their health; they rarely discuss such problems with anyone. They keep people, psychologically, at a distance. Like to talk and tell things to people, meanwhile they possess good figurative thinking for they read/reflect much. Gait and movements are smooth, barely ever shaken.

(Victor DarkAngelFireWolf69) Ascetic, grumbling, loves to emphasize deficiencies, searches for opponents. Criticizes sometimes with a dose of biliousness. (didn't it say avoids criticism up there?^)Frequently have a very slim figure;(hardly think that's relevant) they can provoke conflicts and actions, including commercial ones. Possesses large erudition and memory, frequently gets stuck in details. A scientist and theorist that makes fundamental developments and who also has an eye for social-economic tendencies. Using analogies, frequently they can predict the development of an ongoing process. Outwardly slovenly and negligent. Little regard to their health.

(Sexual behaviour) Internally wounded and inclined to doubts and fluctuations. Lenient towards strange weaknesses and rarely loses control of themselves. Aim for calm, harmonious relations. Erotically act somewhat unsure, over-anxious and careful. Need prolonged care or sexual preparation; may somewhat “torment” their object of affection in order to achieve greater emotional incandescence. Require understanding and respect. Need an optimistic and diplomatic partner, who knows how to persuade and is capable of scattering self-doubts. Tendency to await initiative from others; this may lead to misunderstandings if their partner is not inclined to take initiative.

LIE

Logical subtype: (The Reformer)

(Valentine Meged & Anatoly Ovcharov) The logical subtype offers the impression of mobility despite being a strict and efficient person. Their expression lacks emotion and focuses directly, in a fixed manner, on the interlocutor for the sake of emphasis. They are a little timid but try to hide this; also a bit mistrustful, critical and unduly categorical. They are only distracted with great difficulty and they work diligently to complete tasks. Despite a habit of reflection they are resolute and impulsive in their words and actions. Inclined to long conversations; a desire to seem constant, cautious and serious causes them to portray stiffness in their dialogue.. Their seeming calmness can quickly be replaced by unexpected haste. In most cases their figure is thickset and their movements are angular. Try to hold themselves confidently so as if to maintain advantage. When they joke their serious expression is hardly disturbed by the indistinct smile that manifests itself solely on the corners of the their lips.

(Victor DarkAngelFireWolf69) Most dynamic of all psycho-types(What? ), a pioneer in their region of activity, searches for supporters with whom it is possible to realize his own or general ideas. Very emotional and impulsive; therefore can be inconsistent in their actions. Trusting(didn't it say mistrusting up there?^... I'm starting to wonder how accurate this is); because of their carelessness they can unintentionally land themselves into complicated affairs; seems spontaneous. Works well in free market activity; if they lose, they do not lose spirit and optimism, but again go forward. Pays little attention to external appearances[ and health, is outwardly thin, very mobile, sometimes wears beard and whiskers(if male), prone to disorderly conduct.

(Sexual behaviour) Attitude towards sex is somewhat conservative and rational. Touchy and inclined to jealousy. Value high morals and are disposed to prolonged and durable relations. Try to conduct a simple, healthy sexual life, predominately with one partner whose satisfaction is important. Need someone diplomatic, sensitive and responsive, whom is serious, moderately emotional and capable of understanding them. Partner must be lenient and also know how to diversify erotic impressions over time.


kind of inconclusive

[crazedrat]

I think the way you're going about this indicates LIE over ILI

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Thank you! Someone helpful. I think you're right. It makes a lot more sense that I would be ILI than LIE.

On what you've said it makes sense that you are ILI over LIE, but I know that such things can take time to deliberate over!

The question I probably should have asked is, how likely is it that an Ni-LIE (or any extrovert subtyped-introvert for that matter) would be like their mirror? Is it likely that Ni-LIE might seem IP?

I think it's unlikely, given that the temperament is a direct result of the leading function. That is, even if an LIE is a sub type of Ni, it's still the creative function and works differently to that of the lead in terms of model A and how a person is.

Personally I would expect someones overall behaviour, over a large time period, to be consistent with their leading function, and hence temperament.

An LIE of strong Ni sub-type would probably have some EIE characteristics, rather than being more like an ILI, i've found.

[Creepy-Diana]

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[Azeroffs]

I think the way you're going about this indicates LIE over ILI

It's been on my mind non-stop since I've created this thread. It's kind of unhealthy.. lol.. like seriously I've been getting headaches. I tend to obsessively think about some things, and definitely never let a problem go unsolved if I feel like it can be solved.

I keep going back and forth, some days I'm certain of one and others I have no idea. No matter what, by the next morning I start questioning any certainty I came to the day before.

An LIE of strong Ni sub-type would probably have some EIE characteristics, rather than being more like an ILI, i've found.

idk how true that is, but I can see some similarities to EIE. Definitely closer to ILI however. I think it would make more sense to be more like ILI since they are mirrors. It's more likely that you would share characteristics of someone with the same functions in each block imo

edit:more than EIE, I think Ni-LIE would show IEI characteristics since they are becoming more introverted, this explains all the IEI typings. Idk about you guys but that just convinced me that I'm LIE again.

I think you should also consider an ethical intuitive type. That seems like it may be the better fit. Have you looked much at IEI, or not yet?

I took a look at Te PoLR and said "NO" and that was the end of that.

[Azeroffs]

If anyone (preferably someone with Fe or Si Super-ego) could explain how it feels to be Fe or Si PoLR/Role that could be really helpful. I'm particularly interested in anything about xIE's Si PoLR or even Si Role.

[Azeroffs]

I'm starting to feel like this thread is my personal blog.

Dimensionality of functions - Wikisocion

based on this, it makes no sense for me to be Fe PoLR.

Opinions?
Can you turn your PoLR into a social norm?

[Azeroffs]

Weak Si: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ly-states.html

Have you ever considered if you're ethical but with really strong T hidden agenda? I know I am: I'm comfortable with both Fe and Fi (both of which I can sense myself "using"), but I'm obsessed with Ti and slightly repulsed by Te (which, being Te-PoLR, I tend to unfairly characterise as the need to be doing work all the time to be considered "productive" ).

T in the hidden agenda requires T in the PoLR which I just can't relate to. Maybe Te hidden agenda, but IEE/SEE is definitely not me.

thanks for the link

[717495]

I'm quite sure you're an ILI-Te and you should stop searching for your right type because everything you are mentioning points to ILI-Te. I hope I helped by telling you your type.

[Azeroffs]

I'm quite sure you're an ILI-Te and you should stop searching for your right type because everything you are mentioning points to ILI-Te. I hope I helped by telling you your type.

I am not dismissing the possibility, and because of recent events and general life circumstances I can see how I could look like an ILI. However, the more I read into it, the more I feel like I don't fall within the bounds of ILI and the more I feel like I am an LIE.

I know an SLI, and I'm quite sure of that typing. I can see his Fe PoLR, and I'm not like that. I'd even be willing to accept that I am Fe creative if that didn't mean that I would be Te PoLR. ILI makes sense in a lot ways, but it doesn't account for very apparent things. It makes more sense to say that I am an uncharacteristic LIE. And I have actually made a lot of self discoveries since I've decided that. I'm still young, it may be some time until I know for sure.

[Jarno]

how do you test on dichotomies?

You seem convinced to be intuitive, so that's easy.

What about the other three?

anyways, once you start examening your relationships with people of who you know their type, things will get evident and confirming.

[crazedrat]

it's already evident. he is LIE-Ni

[Azeroffs]

how do you test on dichotomies?

You seem convinced to be intuitive, so that's easy.

What about the other three?

anyways, once you start examening your relationships with people of who you know their type, things will get evident and confirming.

I usually test around 55% I, 80% N, 95% T, and 65% P.
'I' is pretty consistently borderline. I can relate to F, but I have clear preference for T. P is really inconsistent. These are MBTI tests though.

[717495]

That sounds good then! I mean, you did seem like you were sure you were Si-POLR not Fe.

I'd like to say ONE thing about the dichotomies. They are the rough guess. When you take a test and it asks you simple questions, they seem to account for smaller sectors of behavior, ie. testing one dichotomy at a time, that forcibly add up to a type, making many weak stereotypes based on mainly those behaviors. Logically it might make sense that a rational human being, if having "this" quality would also have "that" quality. There are realistic correlations that do speak that way. It's simply a matter of confidence level in variance, and the correlation of behavior varies more than the underlying factors of what is socionics related, like relations, quadras, and other functions.

[Azeroffs]

That sounds good then! I mean, you did seem like you were sure you were Si-POLR not Fe.

I'd like to say ONE thing about the dichotomies. They are the rough guess. When you take a test and it asks you simple questions, they seem to account for smaller sectors of behavior, ie. testing one dichotomy at a time, that forcibly add up to a type, making many weak stereotypes based on mainly those behaviors. Logically it might make sense that a rational human being, if having "this" quality would also have "that" quality. There are realistic correlations that do speak that way. It's simply a matter of confidence level in variance, and the correlation of behavior varies more than the underlying factors of what is socionics related, like relations, quadras, and other functions.

Si-PoLR is just hard to understand at first since I feel like everyone is sensually pleasure seeking at times. I think I get it now, and it makes sense.

I completely agree, someone might innately think one way, but because of environmental stimulation, they begin to accept something that doesn't completely correlate to what they prefer. The I/E an J/P on tests is very stereotypical too. I think it has little correlation to actual processes imo.

[717495]

The I/E an J/P on tests is very stereotypical too. I think it has little correlation to actual processes imo.

Obviously they need to be redefined. Like traditional MBTI ideas of these don't work. But you can never get it perfect.

[Jarno]

Obviously they need to be redefined. Like traditional MBTI ideas of these don't work. But you can never get it perfect.

That's true. I've read a book about critisism on MBTI and it sais that on the original tests (used by psychologists, not internet stuff), the result is 75% accurate, meaning giving the right type. But I still have to see a socionics test that equals that...

[717495]

Here's a test that's 75% accurate, and I made it! I'm so talented!

1) Do you have boy parts?

2) Do you have girl parts?

3) Are you a boy, or are you a girl?

ANSWER KEY:

If 1 = yes, TMI... TMI
If 2 = yes, That must be fun for you
If 3 = boy, you're a boy, if 3 = girl, you're a girl, if you left 3 blank, you're a freakin gypsie.

[Shazaam]

I think what Allie is saying is that you are basically telling not showing. You are saying things but not really showing who you really are yet, so just don't worry about your type for now, a-and just interact with others and your true type will shine out naturally after awhile.

We don't really know anything about you yet to type you accurately.

[Azeroffs]

Here's a test that's 75% accurate, and I made it! I'm so talented!

1) Do you have boy parts?

2) Do you have girl parts?

3) Are you a boy, or are you a girl?

ANSWER KEY:

If 1 = yes, TMI... TMI
If 2 = yes, That must be fun for you
If 3 = boy, you're a boy, if 3 = girl, you're a girl, if you left 3 blank, you're a freakin gypsie.

If 1 = no 2 = yes
and 3 = boy

does that mean I win?

I think what Allie is saying is that you are basically telling not showing. You are saying things but not really showing who you really are yet, so just don't worry about your type for now, a-and just interact with others and your true type will shine out naturally after awhile.

We don't really know anything about you yet to type you accurately.

Yeah I realize I'm not showing, but it's kind hard on a forum. I'm pretty sure already, but I guess we'll see.