Vero 30

[Wynch]

@ Cyclops: Yes, I'm taking this seriously.

Lol @ this quote. I was sure you've taken something out of the context to interpret it at your disposal. Ohe supposition of the paragraph is that people you trust are not those "jackasses" who are able to contradict you. If they unconditionally don't contradict you, therefore they are hypocrites. Obviously, the deduced category doesn't refer to real people.

Ok, to be frank here, your english is not great and there are a lot of times where I feel your point gets a little lost in translation. In this case, it sounded like you were calling anyone who calls me an ILE a hypocrite. However, even then I think you've garned the completely wrong impression from me if you think that I feel people who contradict me are jackasses. That simply isn't the case.

When people make claims and don't back them up, then yes I will think they're a bit of a jackass and not take their claim seriously. But I've been willing to discuss (both now, and in the past) legitimate questions about my typing. Did I not just address questions you had about my type? Was I being snide or mocking in it? No. I answered your questions directly because a question deserves a response.

about the second: as you probably noticed in other threads, i use expressions like "i think", "imo", but at the same time i know that resolute people (like mn0good) need resolute answers, as they usually perceive doubt as a weakness. consider this only as a method of removing prejudgment, ok?

Where did you get the idea that I was resolute or that I perceive doubt as a weakness? That's pretty much the opposite of what is true. Dealing with people who are resolute or unquestioning of their opinions and ideas is frustrating to me, if anything. That should be obvious at this point. I feel that anyone who is unwilling to question their ideas or opinions (or at least put them to the test of challenge) has not taken the time to thoroughly consider it.

If you would bother to talk to me as a peer, then I might be more willing to talk to you in general. Additionally, if you would be more willing to discuss your opinions as opinions rather than laying out facts, then I would be more willing to talk to you. Being resolute puts my back up.

There is no need of any respect to address facts. Even more, it conflicts with that "Alpha easygoingness", which you and the "official" forum group insists on. I actually came in relaxed and open, just to wake up against a wall of moral admonishment. This attitude is actually hostile to Alphas.

Anyone who would like to discuss their ideas needs to demonstrate that they know what they're talking about. I never see you discuss theory or demonstrate any firm knowledge of socionics. Instead you seem to go around challenging types a lot and doing it in a fashion that doesn't seem to garner discussion. It's either your way or it's no way. How is that an alpha quality?

And, for the last time, my post was not a moral admonishment. There was nothing moral about it. I wasn't moralizing you. I don't care what your morals are. If you want a group of people to listen to your opinions, you need to demonstrate that your opinions are worth their time. If you demonstrate to me that you and your opinions are logically sound, then I will be more willing in the future to consider your opinions because I know that you generally think things through. That means demonstrating a firm grounding in the theoretical aspects of the discussion and does not mean telling people how things are without explanation. End story.

That's what I started this thread for. To give you an opportunity to discuss your opinions and give me something to consider.

This is a purely theoretical speculation, I don't see how it applies to you. It's not about proficiency, but about value. As an ILE you wouldn't need to use Fi against me as I never attacked you at that point.

I still can't see how I used Fi against you. I think you're projecting contexts onto what I said that weren't there and at this point I'm not really sure how to make that any clearer than I already have.

1. I agree that unpacking stuff is ILE most than anything.
BUT!
2.The previous data you provided contradicts this:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post501812
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post501860
...and clearly pictures you a rational.
Check!
One of the two POVs is a lie. You have the occasion to admit which one. I promise you I won't accuse you of anything, just want to make up my mind.

I didn't realize that being in control of one's life was an inherently judging quality. I'm a very adaptable person, I like to create a general plan of action then adjust from there. My goals and dreams are vague and constantly changing. However, underneath all of these things I have a firm self-confidence and a trust in my ability to adapt, which leaves me feeling in control of my life. I trust that if something screws up, I can renegotiate in terms of that moment so that I can redirect my life where I want it to go. When someone bombards me with "what ifs," my attitude is that if it happens, it'll happen and there are a thousand ways I can fix it when the time comes.

This confidence in my ability to adapt is what I mean about being in control of my life. I feel that no matter what happens, I can do what needs to be done to make things work. When I'm in a one-on-one relationship, I don't feel that way anymore. If something happens in the relationship, I have no idea how I'll deal with it. I don't know that I'll be able to fix it. I don't even know how I would start fixing it. Knowing that makes me feel out of control and unsafe. I no longer have the potential to adapt because I'm running into a blind spot. So I don't like it.

To summarize: Being in control means being able to adapt.

[Wynch]

You seem to me like LIE is a possibility. You have intuition but it comes across as more linear than tangential, you seem to move forwards and backwards when making your points. I am on my cell phone just now so I can't quote various things to hi-light this. However, contrast with hkkmr, ephemoros and Vibration who's points move out in different directions then meet up. I think in this context that you show a lot of Ni in your posts.

Ah, see that's an interesting comment. I would really appreciate it if you could find time later to pick out some of these examples.

I will say this in advance, though. I'm fairly selective about what I post and tend to take the time to construct my arguments carefully. I find that people take information better if you present it in the fashion of:

If A, B, C; then D.

It does actually seem like a characteristic of you to moralise every so often, which could be Fi valueing. Expat seems to do something similar from what i've read of him.

I also think that your posts in general remind me a lot of Expat's, who's an LIE.

You find I remind you of Expat? That's one I haven't heard before

We actually discussed the topic of my occasional moralizing posts in New York. Niffweed brought up that he sometimes wondered if I was IEE when I made up posts like that. It's a valid point, I sometimes get fired up about moral issues. Typically, that involves things concerning gender and sexuality issues. I think this comes back to the question of gender and type that look.to.the.sky brought up. You can debate this if you'd like, but here's what I think.

I've always been a female that's "one of the guys". It's been in my nature to approach issues hyper-logically and to reject notions of emotionality, sensitivity and the typically feminine. However, as a woman out of place in a world where there are still very definite notions of femininity, I'm forced to address those more Fi issues of gender as a part of my day-to-day life. My concept of identity is not a comfortable fit because people do not want me to be a "masculine" female. If I am, it means I'm a bitch or a lesbian. And when I bring up this problem, I'm met with the same reponses: that my experience is made up, that feminism is unnecessary and just silly at this point, that if I want people to see me as a woman then I should act more like a woman. So, in order to make my point and to prove to others that what I'm saying is valid, I have to educate myself on the issues. However, the more you immerse and invest yourself in an issue, the more that you react when people bring it up. As a by-product, when people bring up these questions and issues, I go on a moralizing rampage.

I didn't see anything in the questions you answered to ephemeros a couple of posts up that would contradict LIE as a typing, hmm.

Like I said, I am not able to pull through quotes just now, but another thing; I am not really in the mood to invest too much personal time or indeed energy into this thread. So my comments, you can take them constructively and answer them if you wish, because really you can call yourself whatever type you want, and you could be ILE anyway!

Edit: I wanted to address this; Are you are taking this thread seriously? I'm honestly getting mixed signals over this.

Well LIE is not a completely ludicrous typing based on individual evidence. when I go on my seasonal question-typing spree, LIE is one of the types that crops up. However, I think it's totally unreasonable to see me in Gamma. On the forum I come across much more seriously and focussed than I am in person. In reality, I thrive around expressive and upbeat groups. The more the merrier is probably a motto for my life. I mean, to give you a better idea, I'm a very very convincing MBTI ENTP. If you break down all the aspects of MBTI and what each of those dichotomy qualities means, I think it's pretty obvious that Gamma is not something I can be.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Wynch]

But I don't loose track from where we start from, if you look to the original post in the IEI thread, you'll see that her dismissal shows little over no interest in anything related to challenging her type, even if it comes from me. As an ILE, I'd be at least intrigued by such personality. Where is that ILE-specific curiosity? Where is the challenge and eagerness for debate? I don't see these in her, can you show me? (of course, every person has periods and moods, but never saw mn0good in such episode).

Wow, wait. Are you saying that I have no curiosity or willingness to explore a challenge of my typing...in the thread I made to explore a challenge of my typing? This actually blows my mind.

Why don't you give us the key to reconciliation, then?
Imo: if one is so able to control his life in any aspect, how can he show such sign of irrationality? Didn't she want to unpack, or had more important tasks to do along the week? Then this is not a pro-ILE argument, rationality would be emphasized even more.
"Check mate!" I'd say.

I said the exact opposite in my post. I said that I didn't bother to unpack during the week. I've had plenty of time to do it, I just haven't bothered.

Oh, another interesting piece of evidence against rationality. On Friday I emailed my mother in the middle of the afternoon to tell her that I was coming home for Mother's Day. I made travel plans the same day and within an hour of checking bus schedules, I was taking the afternoon off and running home to pack. Between the time when I checked the bus schedule and when I hopped on the last bus heading out that day, I had three hours. It was literally "spur of the moment," which is pretty much typical of my lifestyle.

[Wynch]

I will discuss ethics all the time, ENTp's care very much about ethics. I think this is actually a very important part of the personality. We also fight ethical battles nobody's even thought of or cared about, because ethics are also a invented thing. ENTp however view it as a invented thing, like a wrench or a hammer, not some sacred cow. But I prefer to think a higher standard is established by a ENTp rather then a lower, because that ethics must also be more logical, more universal and more consistent. The super-ego is a area of perfection(as it is defined and speculated as), not necessarily failure(althrough this is how it's often viewed internally) because well perfection is impossible. Why do some INFp manicure their appearance so tightly and perfectly(keep doing this)? Why do some SF's drive very hard at theoretical physics, chess and mathematics? Perhaps Ephemeros's criticism on morality was not on the moralizing but rather something else?

YES. YES, a thousand times, yes. EXACTLY. Aaaaaack. I'm sorry. Yes. That's exactly how I feel aboout it. I wish I could take this paragraph and gild it.

And well, I'm not really sure what Ephemeros is arguing anymore, other than that he believes I'm rational, not an ILE and Fi-valuing.

Also, that post that you're referring to, with me discussing LIE, was responding to Cyclops, not to Ephemeros. Just FYI

[Creepy-male]

What is a flash in the sky? Is it lightning, a fallen star, perhaps the clouds moved and the sun or moon shine upon the earth? A light in the mind forms a thought pregnant with life, and our words gives it breath.

Moments like this are when I wonder if you're ILE.

Enough fytan, serious comment.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Creepy-male]

No, it was a serious question.

And let what go? I have no idea why you're so bitter.

Why must you twist everything into a fight?

[Creepy-male]

...what?

You're actually openly abusing me on a forum because I asked you a question.

These fights are why I wonder if you're Alpha. I'm obviously Alpha. We don't seem to value the same elements at all.

These are my observations--tell me why they're wrong.

EXERCISE IN NeTi:

What's the pattern of our interactions? Use that powerful ego block of yours.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Wynch]

I think you're Ne leading, and I agree with Ephemeros on somethings and some of his observations, but otherwise I'm mostly just locked up in a room with him because of certain characters. It's like 48 hours and I'm Nick Nolte with a bad hangover.

No, I don't put you an ephemeros in the same boat. When questioned, you are more open to actually discussing your thoughts more reasonably. I've had plenty of really excellent conversations with you. I only put you and ephemeros together because you'd agreed with a few of his points in the thread I was addressing and I wanted your personal thoughts on it. No more than that. If I was building an ark, and I had people come on in pairs, I would not make you and ephemeros walk together, lol.

...what?

You're actually openly abusing me on a forum because I asked you a question.

These fights are why I wonder if you're Alpha. I'm obviously Alpha. We don't seem to value the same elements at all.

These are my observations--tell me why they're wrong.

EXERCISE IN NeTi:

What's the pattern of our interactions? Use that powerful ego block of yours.

Never speak to me or about me again, because I want nothing to do with you. Now go away, you mental cockroach.

Actually, I don't think this has anything to do with information elements and has everything to do with maturity levels. Gulanzon, you're a guy in high school. Hkkmr is in his thirties (I think I remember you saying that?). I think half the reason you clash is because you go around acting like a kid, and he doesn't want to deal with kids. It's like the puppy who prances around the seasoned dog, nipping at his ears. You're both dogs. One day you'll grow into your paws. But right now you're driving him crazy with your over-the-topness and general naivety. That's not to say you're an idiot, but he's lived a lot more life than you, so your attitude towards life is a little different. It's liking increasing levels of jadedness vs. youthful optimism.

Quite frankly, I used to be A LOT like you (which is part of the reason I keep going back to ILE for your type). In high school I was pretty much bat-shit insane. However, I've only been out of high school for four years and I already find myself with low patience for those kinds of antics. I'm just at a different place in my life and being constantly bombarded with that kind of attitude and exuberence can be tiring and a little annoying at times. It's about engaging with people at the same energy levels as you. In contrast, look at BP and I. We're in pretty similar places in life and as a by-product our levels of silliness vs. seriousness are pretty well met. We deal with the same kinds of life issues, have encountered a lot of the same kinds of life experiences, and so it's pretty easy for us to meet eye-to-eye.

[Creepy-male]

lol Gulanzon, please don't use yourself as a benchmark for anything.

Let me rephrase then.

My interactions with these two are completely unlike my interactions with any of the multitude of other Alphas I know. Basic pattern matching says "There's probably something amiss here."

Does it sound like I'm trying to sell opinion as Right? I don't mean to.

EDIT

Ok, no, pointless, Vero explained it.

--

Now, hk, you're the one picking fights. You antagonized Akra. Insult me behind my back all you want if that's what you need to vent, but never fuck with my friends.

If something about me is irritating me enough that you need to take it out on other people, then there's a problem. Let's work towards fixing that.

[Wynch]

One man's trash, another man's treasure.

In this thread, I sense you've had quite the bull in the China shop effect, and as a scientist, the first opinion I would remove is the ones too influenced by subjective, emotional and psychologically close investment. So although your words and opinions are pretty, let's put it where it needs to go.

Really? In this case I would remove the ones first that have very little experience to go on. For instance, I trust the people I met in New York to know that I'm not rational in temperament and to know that I'm most definitely Ne/Si. If you want to talk about knowledgable and objective opinions, I think they have a pretty good idea.

As for a parent, I would say in some senses you could be right, that too close an involvement can be detrimental. However, I don't feel that's the case with my mom. Though we're close and I love my mom a lot, our relationship isn't really one where our impressions of each other are particularly overshadowed by our personal sentiments towards one another. I think if you asked my mom to build an objective and logical case for my typing, she could probably give you a better one than anyone else here.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Wynch]

If socionics and information metabolism detection did not work at a distance, then it would be useless. You have a wealth of information about yourself in the form of post and historical record that we can explore.

You love your mom a lot, that means a lot to your relationship, but ultimately I think it's damaging to the analysis, we need to be cold, logical and recognize the bias here. Bias is inescapeable especially at such a close psychological distance, she certainly defends your typing vigorously and has rendering her opinion to be one of rigourous defense rather then providing additional insight into your character.

The nature of what my mom has said is not really a demonstration of bias, but rather an appeal to authority as you mention below. If she feels like it, she might come in here to explain why she feels I'm an ILE. My mom is not in here arguing because I asked her to or because she wants to defend my typing of myself. She has always encouraged me to pursue ideas for myself and to do them objectively. I do think it is telling that both of us, independent from each other's opinions, have typed me in the same way.

The personal attacks on Ephemeros and the way her protective nature is being displayed is not unbiased analysis. And as she only provides conclusions, I do not really know how to interpret her words other then as a appeal to authority. It taints this whole affair, there's a lot of broken china already.

My mom's words were an appeal to authority, lol. That's just her way. My mom is impatient when it comes to people she finds intellectually incompetent or misguided, which is why she attacked Ephemeros personally. She has a difficult time disguising her lack of respect for people she deems unworthy (see her posts involving machintruc). She's a lot like Niffweed in that regard, lol.

As a whole I would rather this thread close, I have no intention of making a persuasive argument about your type and I don't think we need to reiterate the same arguments further.

Fair enough.

[Wynch]

Last time before falling asleep I was thinking that ILI type would hardly contradict what most of us said here. I didn't think about it long enough. What are your thoughts about it?

...

You think I'm an ILI now?

[Creepy-male]

Vero's chin is an LSE.

[Wynch]

Vero's chin is an LSE.

Well, I do have my father's chin.

[Creepy-male]

Well, I do have my father's chin.

Also, because it's cute and has no relevance to anything,

[Wynch]

lol, Cara and Maddy.

[Creepy-male]

lol, Cara and Maddy.

How did you know?

[Wynch]

I watch the show whenever I'm at my ESE best friend's house. We like to watch the adorable part-asian children because we're creepers.

[Creepy-male]

That's a show?

I seriously just pulled a random image off Google when the one I wanted wasn't there.

[Wynch]

Jon and Kate + 8. A couple who had a set of twins and then had a set of sextuplets.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Creepy-male]

I was interested what are your thoughts about it, btw. Not to eager to make the first move, are you?

[Wynch]

Could be. As I said, it's not just a conciliation, but I indeed see it matching. I use to tell ILIs they are too workaholic, or stubborn, or calculated, in a word: rational. They insist they'd want to be more rational, actually.
Also, they much value Fi, and Se, they care about opinions of people who demonstrate their capabilities, who *are somebody* unlike ILEs.

I was interested what are your thoughts about it, btw. Not to eager to make the first move, are you?

Actually, I was a little astonished. ILI is something no one has ever tossed my way. It just seems like such a ludicrous typing that I have difficulty understanding where you could possibly get it from. I'm not saying that to be offensive, it just seems so off-base that I barely know where to begin. I really wasn't sure that you were talking to me for a second.

I think above all other things, my enjoyment and investment in Fe groups and atmospheres makes this typing the most obviously misplaced. Following that, I think you continue to put way too much emphasis on what I said in the other thread. You falsely interpret the context of a lot of what I say, causing you to attribute meanings and implications to my words which are not really there. My format of categorizing people does not go demonstrated ability -> valuable opinion. It goes validated opinion -> confindence in ability. This does not mean that by earning my confidence that I will always defer to your opinion. I will disagree with people who have a demonstrated ability. I will agree with people who do not have a demonstrated ability. It simply means that you earn my respect as an intellectual if you demonstrate to me that you know what you're talking about and can logically justify it. It doesn't matter if I'm talking to Rick or I'm talking to Gulanzon. They're the same ot me as long as their argument is framed within the logical justification of the evidence, it's context and the theoretical framework of socionics.

I still think you have a very grave misconception of me as a person if you think I'm a workaholic or particularly stubborn, btw. The workaholic part is almost completely the opposite of what is true. And the stubborn part only applies when someone offends me or irritates me.

[Creepy-male]

Oh, IEIs.

You manage to say things I can't articulate.



+1

EDIT

IEIs who aren't BnD, I mean.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Gilly]

Ephemeros, if you continue to manifest this pathetic, uneducated, stubborn unreceptivity, I am going to have to moderate you. Most of the people you confront and accuse have vastly greater experience and demonstrate a clear grasp on the theory while you pile pages of irrelevant or misinterpreted evidence and refuse to listen to anyone but yourself. If you persist in being a belligerent intellectual nuissance to the forum, measures will be taken to minimize your negative influence.

[Creepy-male]

I don't see a reason why her temperament would not extend to her posts as well...

Don't you think I'm an EJ or something because of how much I post?

[Gilly]

lmao

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Creepy-male]

[Wynch]

Vero is a smart girl, and has largely stayed out of the fray and there is really no one for you to convince but her and yourself.

Well actually, I haven't been back to the forum since about 4pm yesterday. I've been silent because I was busy with drunken shenanigans last night. There are stories, lol.

And to the second part of this statement, yes, thank-you. This thread was meant for discussing my type and I'm kind of irked that it's turned into such a clusterfuck. And Gilly, I'm kind of peeved about the censorship comment. gtfo and let the man express his opinions. The manner of his doing so definitely pisses me off, but I don't really care about that as much as trying to discuss the issue at hand.

@ephemeros: I have a meeting in a bit, but when I get back I'll address your latest comments.

[Banana Pancakes]

[Creepy-male]

My life is complete.

I could die now and be only 60% disappointed.

[Wynch]

On your mark, get set, GO!

@mn0good: as a last explanation: it's about the image you project, how you are seen. You may deny anything you like, actually you deny things I never said, as you did with previous occasions.
If you check again what I've said, it's about ILI image from outside which is perceived in opposite manner by themselves. Exactly what happened about you.

I'm sorry, but I don't think one example of misconstrued meaning by someone who doesn't understand the nuances of the english language makes the case for Fe-PoLR. Please keep in mind your own role in the misunderstanding here.

Not sure what "demonstrated" ability means to you, considering you ignore a lot of facts, but I hope you don't wait for a government decree. You're talking about logical evidence, but everything you've got are your testimonies, and life was unfair to you to now show clear ILE vibes on the forum.

First, tell me where I use life being unfair as a reason for being ILE? If you want to talk about sticking to the fact, you should be careful that you're not making things up as you go along. What is the evidence but a battle of testimonies. You claim that I act a certain way, I claim I act a certain way, others claim I act a certain way. That's what this is about. The issue here is interpreting the evidence and making sure that we are addressing the widest breadth of evidence possible. You seem to neglect this by taking singular things that I say and tacking on a value that doesn't take into account any idea of context or the wider evidence contained in the majority of what I talk about.

Now I'll tell you how I do compare to you:
- I never say I am are able to manage everything in my life.
- I complain a lot about different things.

These have nothing to do with type.

- I hate groups and the obligations to belong to them. I belong to some, but don't invest any "Fe". Obviously, your argument is misplaced.

My argument is misplace because you are the benchmark for ILEs everywhere? That's an excellent case (sarcasm). I'll tell you here that I like spending time with groups, but I don't like being obligated to them. That's an inference you made about me that was not my own. I don't think "investing Fe" has anything to do with what you said.

- I never talk to people about "my respect"; I have not such of notion.

You have no notions of respect? So when someone betrays you or lies to your face, you're perfectly ok with that and go on trusting them like nothing happened? I definitely have to call bullshit here. There's a difference between respect and deference. I respect people, but it doesn't mean I have to defer to them on all matters. You continue to have trouble understanding the difference.

- I can never be sure if the next month I'll not be late at work. I tried hard to reach an assurance but nothing worked. I learned to live with this uncertainty, and to convince the superiors that my punctuality is irrelevant as long as I'm getting good results. Actually I'm doing my best, to make them psychologically dependent on me. Don't tell me fairy tales about if I want I can, that's not true for everybody and Jungian sciences actually explain what's this all about.

I hardly think being prompt is the make or break to a typing. It's not as though I run around with my face glued to my watch and organizing my schedule. I still don't even know where you got this idea from. Is this from my comment about being in control of my life? Because it if is and this is one of your "facts" then I think you need to seriously examine how it is you distinguish between fact and what you infer from a general statement.

- you make appeal to other people to sustain your opinion. I'd accept you do that because you're in somehow a defensive, but it's too much. Saying ppl seeing you in real life telling you are an ILE is completely crap. You know why? Because there are people who meet having something imaginary in common, especially in the US: some are alien abducted, other are vampires, etc. Much easier to be an Alpha, am I right?

Woah, what? So if I meet with people I have things in common with, they can't be trusted to type me properly? If I meet with alphas...because I most enjoy the company of alphas...then I can't be an alpha because people are biased? That argument just doesn't make sense.

Further more, I'm not making an appeal to others to sustain my opinion and I never have. I came in here to discuss my type with you and I have never called on another person to do it for me. People on this board have made their statements. I pointed out that if you want to examine evidence, you may wish to consider that there are some people here who have some strong evidence to go by. You seem to completely disregard the experiences and understanding of anyone but yourself in examining evidence and therefore you walk around with blinders on. I'm not asking you to assume I'm an ILE because someone else says so. But if I say "I'm actually a disorganized and spontaneous person" and then Adam says "Yeah, when Vero was in New York she was all over the place!" then don't you think that evidence means something? You claimed above that my arguments for my type are faulty because they are my own testimony and are blinded by the fact that I don't know how I am compared to others, but at the same time you reject anyone else's evidence as valid too.

All of this said, this thread isn't about those people. If you're that concerned about it, we can take this to PM where you don't have to worry about other people contributing their opinions.

You are resolute and your reply in that specific thread showed this.

What says more here? The meaning you infered from a statement (that I am resolute because I said I like knowing that I can control my life) or the evidence that comes with my reaction to your resolution (that I am not resolute because I find it unreasonable that you treat information that way)? I think you're confusing interpretation and evidence again. I mean, for heavens sake, you quoted the evidence yourself:

If you would bother to talk to me as a peer, then I might be more willing to talk to you in general. Additionally, if you would be more willing to discuss your opinions as opinions rather than laying out facts, then I would be more willing to talk to you.

Opinions are everywhere, even this last ILI typing, you just take/make them allegedly facts:

What were you waiting for from me, to swear an oath? We are trying hard to bring opinions and proofs and you just talk nonsense, just to avoid the issues and stay in position.

Are you still going on about my reaction to you saying I was ILI? Honest to god, man, you attach way too much meaning to the things I say. You made a statement that I considered outlandish, and I wondered whether I had simply misunderstood you and you were talking to someone else. Nothing more, nothing less.

That's your just your opinion denying the reality. It still conflicts with the "Alpha easygoingness". Answer dismissed.

Your post was what it is. I'm not interested to demonstrate anything, I hope you'll get used to that.

If anyone is unwilling to discuss things here, it appears to be you. All you seem to do is insist that everything you read can only be interepreted in the way that you've read it, which is absolutely false. It's impossible to reason with you because you are singularly unwilling to open your blinders and engage in discussion. I think you're proving that here.

No, the opinions (some) were said on Gulanzon IEI thread. Your reason is unexplainable, but I can guess you just wanted to force me and hkkmr to show up with definitive assertions. I'm sorry but I can't satisfy your desire, my only assertion is that you're not an ILE and I can't decide to other type for now.

Go back. Read the thread. Read where gulanzon posted about community. See that you responded to him. See where I started my response with "I think his point was" to try to clear up what I thought was a misunderstanding. Next, see where I tell you that I don't really think your opinion is valid because it provides little reason (reason being used interchangeably with logic).

I understand your frustration but I can't help about it, some other have seen. It could be Fi, it could be Ne, it could be that chimp transplant.

I forgot the part where discussing just the facts involved insulting people by calling them names.

A perfectly fitting short description of an ILI. I have nothing against it. For an ILE nothing is certain, though.

Sure... This is most probably your Ni confidence. I can't find it in me, anything can happen.

This just demonstrates even more to me that you do not actually know what you're talking about.

If that's all you have to say, I feel reasonably satisfied that your case has little merit and isn't worth my time in considering. I started this discussion with you because I was curious if you were seeing something I wasn't. I'm satisfied now that your argument is based off of nothing.

[Creepy-male]

The Vero pwn has been unleashed.

/thread