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Thread: Te PoLR (Clarification, please)

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    Default Te PoLR (Clarification, please.)

    I'm bringing this up because of page 2 in this thread: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post508600

    Now I'd like to clear this up. I title-searched “PoLR” and these were all of the Te PoLR-related threads that came up:



    I've hardly skimmed them, so I may have missed something, but could I get some XEIs to describe what Te PoLR is for them? The only people who want to explain what it is are supposed Te-valuers (and naturally this sort of bias doesn't help). It's difficult for me to believe that it is a simple case of impracticality and dreaminess. Honestly, what do you XEIs think of it?



    BTW, 17.6% of “PoLR” threads were started by Joy and this is hilarious for some reason of which I cannot explain. Jesus Christ, that is twenty-two “PoLR” threads from one person. lol.
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    It's not about concrete facts. I prefer facts over fantasy any day actually. (my roleplaying nature and.... sweetness shan't be mistaken for flights of fantasy, as I hate idle daydreaming to be honest with you- doesn't make you feel alive and that it gets associated with IEIs irks me)

    I seriously want to spit on whoever acts like I prefer some make-believe land to reality. I LOVE reality, I just perceive 'reality' in a different way than some other people, via my own functions.

    Te is about...a certain way information is presented that I don't like. What is this certain way you ask? Well - first, it implies information with the key component being 'productivity' (kind of working for working sake which always made me feel like a jew at a concentration camp =/), that is- it tries to utilize and externalize information for some monsterous machine-like 'goal' that is just (to me) ultimately has no direction or significance. There's no spirit or oomph behind it. I just find that pointless and stupid and it drains/siphons my energy. You should have drive from within, if you have to look at external facts and meshing them together to get power (extroverted thinking), I just think that's lame.

    Te tries to get me moving without taking into an account who I am in my core. Not just my feelings, cause every type feelings- Expat is most likely more emotionally sensitive than I am, that's not the point. It's just.... they focus on external information too much. (All Te is, rawly speaking, is extroverted thinking....objective facts.) Not that I don't like facts, again, I just hate facts without meaning- without taking into all our views etc. And that's just so shallow and pointless and stupid and dumb and retarded to me. You can't get me to do anything you want unless you understand me first. I'll just refuse to listen. Te to me is about getting me involved in 'the system' just to be in the system. I would say, to Te-valuers it's about some greater good....esp. to democratic gammas. It's about pure self-sacrifice. But I never really enjoyed people who did stuff for the 'greater good' even though, they probably are more moralistic than me, it just doesn't give me energy personally and it wastes my time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    BTW, 17.6% of “PoLR” threads were started by Joy and this is hilarious for some reason of which I cannot explain. Jesus Christ, that is twenty-two “PoLR” threads from one person. lol.


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    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Te to me is efficiency, practicality .. regardless of whether your heart's in what you're doing ... regardless of people's feelings. Both my parents are Te-leading .. so I think I'm somewhat immune .. or thought I was, until I realised that I'd developed habits of hiding my way of doing things, so as to not be criticised for my methods. Either that, or just doing things the way other people wanted them done - not caring at all about the outcome since I hated the process.

    LSEs' Te is mostly about bluntness from my perspective. E.g. being on good terms with my flatmate, and her leaving me a note one morning that said something like "You left the door unlocked last night. That shows that you don't respect my property. I don't appreciate it." Which I found pretty rude, considering it was a one-off thing .. and considering my property was involved too. I thought she must have been really angry to write a note like that .. but she wasn't at all when I saw her next. I guess those were just the facts she wanted to get through to me. lol

    LIEs' Te seems more a focus on not wasting personal time and energy. Like "why the hell would you wash those by hand when you could wait and put them in with a load of wash?"
    "Because it's faster, and I don't mind doing it."
    "Why walk all the way to the postbox when I'll be driving by one later on?"
    "Erm .. because I feel like walking."
    *suspicious look* "What else are you planning on doing?"
    "What? I'd just rather post this letter right now."
    "It's not going to get there faster. That doesn't make sense."
    *sigh* "Does it matter? I just feel like walking over there."

    And then there's scheduled relaxation which seems weird to me. Like they expect that because you prefer to do work in an enjoyable way that naturally you'll be glad to drop everything and relax at a time and in a way that they deem appropriate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon View Post
    Te to me is efficiency, practicality .. regardless of whether your heart's in what you're doing ... regardless of people's feelings. Both my parents are Te-leading .. so I think I'm somewhat immune .. or thought I was, until I realised that I'd developed habits of hiding my way of doing things, so as to not be criticised for my methods. Either that, or just doing things the way other people wanted them done - not caring at all about the outcome since I hated the process.

    LSEs' Te is mostly about bluntness from my perspective. E.g. being on good terms with my flatmate, and her leaving me a note one morning that said something like "You left the door unlocked last night. That shows that you don't respect my property. I don't appreciate it." Which I found pretty rude, considering it was a one-off thing .. and considering my property was involved too. I thought she must have been really angry to write a note like that .. but she wasn't at all when I saw her next. I guess those were just the facts she wanted to get through to me. lol

    LIEs' Te seems more a focus on not wasting personal time and energy. Like "why the hell would you wash those by hand when you could wait and put them in with a load of wash?"
    "Because it's faster, and I don't mind doing it."
    "Why walk all the way to the postbox when I'll be driving by one later on?"
    "Erm .. because I feel like walking."
    *suspicious look* "What else are you planning on doing?"
    "What? I'd just rather post this letter right now."
    "It's not going to get there faster. That doesn't make sense."
    *sigh* "Does it matter? I just feel like walking over there."

    And then there's scheduled relaxation which seems weird to me. Like they expect that because you prefer to do work in an enjoyable way that naturally you'll be glad to drop everything and relax at a time and in a way that they deem appropriate.
    that is pretty much how i view , and some of the reasons why i'm led to think i possess it. my whole life pretty much revolves around doing as little work as possible, or doing whatever i work i do with minimal effort to be able to maintain a balance. not stressing myself needlessly, basically.
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    lol. Classic thread.

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    Te PoLR - the inefficiency and incorrect facts of this discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    I say it for the second time today and I'd like to explain a bit: efficiency is a Ti trait, not Te. I'm talking of what I consider to be the most obvious meaning of the term.
    You are thinking about profitability - earning as much as possible with an investment, while efficiency is obtaining something definite with the lowest waste of resources or in the least time. Their differences are very important when talking about Socionics, imo.
    Te's usually appreciate all-rounders: any situation not handled, even when it was not addressed by the attributions, is considered a failure. In Ti eyes, a mission whose initial objectives are accomplished is considered a success, even if contextual opportunities are wasted.
    Not sure about this. A common quote of an ESTj boss I have is, "I can do that in fifteen minutes". He is efficency focused, but.. ENTj's I know don't understand efficiency. Keeping in mind that ISTp's are the masters of efficiency, i'll say something i've mentioned before, perhaps it is Si that's related to the efficiency too.
    About Te PoLR, these are my conclusions, although ppl may contradict me if some things fall in other categories, too. Te PoLR:
    - do not like responsibility. They try do do something but they won't guarantee. Their guarantee is merely a greater wish/desire to fulfill the job.
    - prefer specific tasks. They don't want to know every detail of a business, that would mean they should be responsible (see above).
    - avoid explanation for their actions.
    - need private space. Sacred private space, which is not intended to anything. They possess things which are not intended to anything as they don't assign a purpose for every belonging.
    - are not planners, they prefer to live the moment and improvise (yes, IEI too)
    -
    I think this is pretty good.

    Mimosa, i'm still digesting your reply. For short thing, I think a lot of LIE's are rude, maybe it is to do with their HA, trying to have authority when the have none.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Not sure about this. A common quote of an ESTj boss I have is, "I can do that in fifteen minutes". He is efficency focused, but.. ENTj's I know don't understand efficiency. Keeping in mind that ISTp's are the masters of efficiency, i'll say something i've mentioned before, perhaps it is Si that's related to the efficiency too.

    I think this is pretty good.

    Mimosa, i'm still digesting your reply. For short thing, I think a lot of LIE's are rude, maybe it is to do with their HA, trying to have authority when the have none.
    Let's not start with the LIE-bashing just because you had a disagreement with Expat, please.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Let's not start with the LIE-bashing just because you had a disagreement with Expat, please.
    Let's keep your personal opinions to yourself, or at least seperate them from fact, esp when they're wrong.

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    What is going on? isn't about efficiency, it's a field function focused on security. Second of all it's static, so it isn't concerned about efficiency. It is concerned about what is logical, be it efficient or not.

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    My interpretation is that Te is more process-based. Ti is more ideal-orientated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    You are thinking about profitability - earning as much as possible with an investment, while efficiency is obtaining something definite with the lowest waste of resources or in the least time.
    That's nonsensical. The rate of return is what is important in an investment, and that is given both by lack of expenditure and profitability. Let's try not to be whacks, please.
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    Mimosa what would you say your weaknesses were? From what I have seen all you have mentioned so far is that you don't like doing repetitive things, I apologise if I have missed anything.

    I presume that which you are not good at would be a pointer to your PoLR. I know that it's the case for me.

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    I also personally think that mimosa is an ENFp.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    The lack of good answers in this thread irritates me as well, but unfortunately it's based on lack of knowledge, and not lack of Te.
    I'd love to understand Te PoLR better, but this thread doesn't help, I agree.
    I have worked with some INFp's and ISFp's in some high Te dominated environments, so for myself all I can think of is to post my own experiences of this. I'll try and post about it later but it would probably be a big post and I can't see the effort put in matching any gained results!

    It would be good if Ryu or Smilingeyes posted, because I think with them being ESTj, they would be better at describing Te PoLR from a more 'PoLR' hit pov. Of course any ENTj's could do it as well!

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    @MP: Wow, my LIE dad is *just like that*. The LIE woman you described, I mean. Socionics works?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    My point is that Te PoLR is not only about an INABILITY to act efficiently a certain way, it's just as much about totally not APPRECIATING that way of doing things. It just isn't efficient (for us).
    Yep, that applies to all PoLRs. Part of the reason why people aren't good with their PoLR is that they don't even want to be good at it. And they don't appriciate people who are good at the PoLR.
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    Yep, that applies to all PoLRs. Part of the reason why people aren't good with their PoLR is that they don't even want to be good at it. And they don't appriciate people who are good at the PoLR.
    That's actually quite true, for really understanding people too.

    When you hear Te-PoLR, think very non-Obama.

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    ephemeros is trivial, annoying, and impossible to have a discussion with—let alone an actual argument. He drags things out to the point where his objective is more about winning than actually being right. It's really stupid. If he's SLE, I'll be EII.
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    This thread is a mess.

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    That mikemex story sounds like several POLRs rolled into one fat sad ball, but none of it is Te polr actually
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    That mikemex story sounds like several POLRs rolled into one fat sad ball, but none of it is Te polr actually
    LOL. I did read it again and it's not that bad.

    Easier example: SEIs gaining weight. They often can't accurately determine what they eat, relying on subjective impressions instead. "I didn't eat that much.".
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    SEIs gaining weight. They often can't accurately determine what they eat, relying on subjective impressions instead. "I didn't eat that much.".
    They just do not care! Do not think about the weight, but are concentrated on emotions and sensations they get from the food.
    You'd was correct if they planed the meal by calories badly - that Te. Weak nonvalued here is in ignoring, not in bad using.
    While "I didn't eat that much" may go as the rationalization or false justification, as they did not thought at all about the consequences. And then "oops" and greetings to new strict diet time. The same is with ESE. Lesser with other T Si - those gain the redundant weight when think this as not important.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    LOL. I did read it again and it's not that bad.

    Easier example: SEIs gaining weight. They often can't accurately determine what they eat, relying on subjective impressions instead. "I didn't eat that much.".
    Bad example, because it has been demonstrated that most people cannot accurately determine what they eat. It's an important cause for overweight. Lots of people who overeat are not aware that they are e.g. snacking throughout the day. Thus, you example is not type-related.
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    Thinking carefully about the SEIs I’ve observed, nothing looking like a Te polr was all that obvious. But I was around one with an LSE on hand sometimes and it was like oil and water.

    The LSE would look at SEI and never understand the point of what she was doing. The point of her artwork, the point of how she did leisure time. They both would be happy to make something or have a bowl of ice cream, but SEI looked like she was moving from pleasure to pleasure, hedonistic and “eccentric” (his word) from LSE pov.

    LSE would make deliberate, discrete time chunks for such pleasures, even announcing their beginning and end. “And now for some ice cream.” “The snack was a success. Back to work.” To SEI this was hopelessly wooden and “square” (her word).

    SEI can sink into what I see as a world of extreme smooth, continuous detail. An example is an SEI verbally giving me directions to a fairly nearby house. (Pre-smart phones.) Every little twist and turn was natural for her to include. I had to say the directions back to her eliminating much more than half of the information to make the instructions usable. I did make her uncomfortable when I did this.

    Good luck trying to impose your organizational procedures on SEI. If the closet is arranged by color and you want it done by category, it prob just won’t ever, ever happen.
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    An SEI asked me for detailed advice on how to prepare a powerpoint document for presentation, which surprised the hell out of me. We've been working together for about six years and she's never asked me anything technical.
    I asked her for details, very aware that every word we exchange brings us closer to the eventual point where she can't stand me, and she gave me a very vague description. I started to describe how to do what she wanted, how I would do it, but an expression came over her face like I was telling her that her children would have to be sacrificed on the alter at midnight. She quickly said she could figure it out herself, I said I was sure she could, and I exited her office as quickly as possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    An SEI asked me for detailed advice on how to prepare a powerpoint document for presentation, which surprised the hell out of me. We've been working together for about six years and she's never asked me anything technical.
    I asked her for details, very aware that every word we exchange brings us closer to the eventual point where she can't stand me, and she gave me a very vague description. I started to describe how to do what she wanted, how I would do it, but an expression came over her face like I was telling her that her children would have to be sacrificed on the alter at midnight. She quickly said she could figure it out herself, I said I was sure she could, and I exited her office as quickly as possible.
    When I’ve successfully given advice or directions to an SEI, I believe I was telling them how to think about the problem or issue, in theory, rather than giving them a list of concrete steps to follow. Even when prepping an SEI for a specific exam, I pointed out the principles she could employ to succeed. (She made an A.)
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    From what I have seen: some SEI's are quick to get something when something is told like: "it also works there..."

    As for few posts back: For some reason supervisee's creative is the most pointless thing there is...
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    My GF (SEI) was just explaining yesterday how in high school the math teacher would explain something, and then her classmates would bend over their books and do the math exercises, while she just was flabbergasted because she neither understood what it was being explained nor what it was the teacher expected of her.

    The problem here is not so much a lack of mathematic insight (Ti), but a lack of talent for executing a mathematic exercise: she does not grab the steps involved in solving a mathematic problem. For example, a simple addition of two numbers, which you and I would solve by visualizing the steps involved to arrive at the outcome, is a problem for her. She just can't visualize it.

    But having known my GF for 11 years now, I don't really think it is a lack of talent or skill that is at the foundation of a Te-PoLR. The core issue is that SEIs simply don't see a valid reason for doing such stuff, and thus are not inclined to make an effort in the first place, lazy asses that they are. Surely if you have led a leisurely life for 54 years and never seen value in adding numbers, it makes perfect sense that you have never moved beyond the oral phase. Which is why she is now going in therapy...

    And this is how it works for all PoLRs ;-)
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    Wait a minute. Therapy for PoLR? Si-PoLR too? Does this mean my next shrink needs to moonlight as an interior decorator?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Wait a minute. Therapy for PoLR? Si-PoLR too? Does this mean my next shrink needs to moonlight as an interior decorator?
    It's like a said before: it all depends on how psychologically mature you are. So my recommendation to an LIE would be: if you wear your suit for half a year before changing it, then you should worry ;-)
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    On scale 4-10 I have turned one 4/10 into 8/10 in math.


    Anyways, I'd say that it is important to learn to imagine the problem. OTOH note to myself: it is also important to read assignments throughout.



    There are people who can not grasp following question but many SEIS's can: We have infinite amount of time and therefore we suppose that we have infinite amount of lotteries (where you have a change of winning) in which you participate. You also live forever. How many lotteries are you going to win?
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type
    Life is a joke but do you have a life?

    NO Private messages, please. Use Discord instead.

  36. #36

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    IEI and his te-polr

  37. #37
    Creepy-Diana

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    .

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    What exactly does, "There is no why" mean to you Allie? And why is that important?
    I was answering this is my head and stopped midway because it reminded me of something Philip Petit said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allie
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Allie
    I recall him saying that the most commonly asked question afterwards was “why did you do it?” In response to these questions he laughs, saying, “There is no why.”
    How would you interpret that?
    I think most people ask that question under the assumption that he's seeking something along the lines of status, fame, glory, or identity. However, “there is no why” in that he did this out of obligation to himself, rather than as an attempt to achieve social or historical acknowledgment. Petit saw the towers and decided that he had a duty to himself to walk across them. I can only assume that it was unwavering passion that motivated this man, not a “why.”

    Though I don't think this is what you meant. Heh. So here is attempt no. Ⅱ:

    What exactly does, "There is no why" mean to you Allie?
    “There is no why” because things just are? There exist both concrete and abstract processes—constant, self-sustaining, and capable of repetition regardless of why they exist, whether they should or shouldn't exist, or any other question that doesn't change what is actually happening. There is no why, just a how—and how is where the use of knowledge comes in.

    And why is that important?
    Because what you and others observe is what you can use and depend on. Why doesn't change anything about what is happening. Understanding why I'm here, for instance, doesn't change the fact that I am, and it won't add or detract anything from the concrete reality of it. Say Ⅿⅽnew tells me I'm here because I am a Sagittarius and I am meant to cause destruction or something stupid like that. This is an explanation that isn't attached to anything concrete—you could make up anything to fill in the slot, and it won't matter. It shouldn't change your perception of what is happening, because it isn't a process—it isn't real, it won't cause or affect, and it's easily replaceable and therefore worthless.

    Is that what you're asking?
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

  39. #39
    Creepy-Diana

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    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    No, I was asking specifically in reference to Philippe Petit, you had it right the first time. That's something I never was fully satisifed with the explanation.

    It's sort of like when someone climbed Mt. Everest, and people asked him why. "Because it was there" he responded. I can appreciate that response, he did it because he could and wanted to. But, "there is no why" strikes me as different some way, and I can peg it down. It bothers me.
    I don't know what exactly he meant by it, but imo it was probably just a shrug to get the media off his back. Everyone coming up and asking me post-walk/climb/etc. “Why did you do it??” would overwhelm and annoy me. “There is no why” is a way to end interrogation—because what the hell could you ask someone after that? Either that, or the answer was obvious and it would've been tiresome to explain: he wanted to do it, he knew he was capable of doing it, therefore he did do it. It wasn't complicated, and yet these people shove questions into his face for a quote to fling across headlines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    Even just, "I wanted to" is a reason. But no reason at all? You spend so much time and effort planning something without any reason? Who does that?
    I think you're taking him too literally. But I'm certainly not claiming to know what he actually meant, so who knows?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    Doing something with no purpose in mind, I think it does say something about the difference between Te valuing, and non Te valuing. It's like what unefille said in this thread: socionics.ws - View topic - Ni PoLR? (and weak Te)
    I didn't really see anything significant in that post. Are you referring to this part:
    Quote Originally Posted by unefile
    -- the underlying point being always 'this is not the best plan - let me point out its deficiencies so you can plan better', which assumes that I WANT the best/more effective/efficient plan for my life. That's not my goal/value at all.
    I don't really understand what she means by that, tbh.
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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