delta land

[ArchonAlarion]

In the place Smilingeyes described, I could never feel relaxed. I don't know how I should act, because the rules are subjective and unclear. I'd be too afraid of fucking up to enjoy the atmosphere. I'd end up getting angry and purposefully being loud or weird to piss off everyone just to stop the tense feeling.

I'd provoke him to put how he feels about me out in the open. Even if he kicked me out, it would make things "clear" and id feel at ease. Its the not knowing thats the worst.

Uhg Fi.

[Smilingeyes]

In the place Smilingeyes described, I could never feel relaxed. I don't know how I should act, because the rules are subjective and unclear. I'd be too afraid of fucking up to enjoy the atmosphere. I'd end up getting angry and purposefully being loud or weird to piss off everyone just to stop the tense feeling.

It's like Rivendell, there's no evil except what you bring with you And yeah, you'd be pointed out pretty quick, but it's not like you'd want to be in such a delta place anyway.

And if I made it sound strict, I'm sorry about that. I don't get the rules myself, such as they appear to be. I mean, it's ISTp shit. I don't really get them. I just like them.

[tiny_dancer]

Yeah, I don't think kicking someone out is necessarily an arbitrary thing. Usually my ex threw people out of his parties for a few very obvious things:Harrassing people who don't want to be harrassed. Starting a fight. Breaking something. Stealing something. Being so drunk that you're out of control and driving the rest of the party-goers crazy.

Things that wouldn't get you thrown out... I won't write it - in case there's 13-year-olds reading. lol

It was never because he didn't like their shirt.

I don't know how I should act, because the rules are subjective and unclear.

I think you're attributing way too much to Fi. My ILE friend has exactly the same rules: if you're bothering other people and making an ass out of yourself, gtfo. And the person kicked out could just as well be a really immature IEE.

[jessica129]

SmilingEyes, what type do you consider yourself?

[Smilingeyes]

EJ temperament. Most used functions Te Si Ni Fe. Make of that what you will.

[The Greeter]

I prefer places without strict rules and boundaries. It annoys me that people would even behave idiotically just so a rule can be imposed to indicate that said behaviour is not allowed.

[ArchonAlarion]

its not about strict rules, its about clear rules.

And if you were referring to me, then I would act out so at least I could understand SOME part of how he feels, so my relationship with him could be clarified. I'd have a tangible action from him, to chart how he feels.

You learn from childhood the interaction between restaurant owner and customer. When you flip it on its freakin head, you can't expect everyone to just "know whats acceptable and whats not" ESPECIALLY if whats not acceptable includes "being weird".

What's "weird" except to the person deciding?

So I would be quite fair in my outburst, due to the general dickishness of the owner.

[The Greeter]

its not about strict rules, its about clear rules.

And if you were referring to me, then I would act out so at least I could understand SOME part of how he feels, so my relationship with him could be clarified. I'd have a tangible action from him, to chart how he feels.

You learn from childhood the interaction between restaurant owner and customer. When you flip it on its freakin head, you can't expect everyone to just "know whats acceptable and whats not" ESPECIALLY if whats not acceptable includes "being weird".

What's "weird" except to the person deciding?

So I would be quite fair in my outburst, due to the general dickishness of the owner.

Maybe you could ask what the rules are?

[ArchonAlarion]

By the way Smiling Eyes describes it, that would probably get you kicked out lol.

Also he said that the rules are arbitrary decided by the ISTp based seemingly on mood.

[jewels]

hmm I dunno if that bar sounds delta or not.

I personally prefer feeling somewhat anonymous when I go to restaurants, coffee shops or bars. I feel kind of uncomfortable knowing the staff places and prefer if they don't try to remember me or my order.

But I might not be getting a clear picture of that bar. It sounds kind of what you'd find in a small town where everyone knows each other and that's prob the part I don't like.

And I think Deltas are very welcoming of others so long as you are respectful and nice to people. If anything the rules are more "clear cut" w/ Deltas -- i.e. you fight, you get kicked out. I suspect w/ Betas it would be more like "you fight the wrong person, you get kicked out...you fight the right person, we might like you more." I could be wrong though.

[duality is cringe]

Anyone who dances gets thrown out.

lol.

I want to go there.

[Creepy-male]

lol.

I want to go there.

Don't make me post David Bowie videos.

[Binky]

Don't make me post David Bowie videos.

yuckity yuk yuck.

[duality is cringe]

Don't make me post David Bowie videos.

Don't do it Gulanzon. The time is not yet ripe for such a course of action.

[Park]

I don't like anime.

Me neither

Neither do I.

Look. It's an ISTp place. Who the hell thinks it should be inviting? The guy keeps the place because he likes beer and likes to have his friends over. About half the customers know the owner so well they just walk behind the bar and serve themselves if they feel like it. Delta is the most closed, least inviting quadra. If you're in, you're the best, if you're out, stay out.

And yeah, if you want to sit on the sofas listening to chatter, do it.

And I don't have a clue how the guy measures "weird" or "unwanted". I just notice every now and then that for some reason he's pissy and pointing someone toward the door and the next restaurant over. ... Mind you, he IS a big guy and he's not aggressive about it. He doesn't literally throw anyone out. When there's real trouble he tends to call the cops quickly, or so he claims.

I am liking this place.

[UDP]

lol.

I want to go there.

I get it, and I see how thats fitting for the place, but........

I like dancing. And don't tell me, delta NFs, that you don't either. I'll at least get the ENFps to dance with me.

[jewels]

I get it, and I see how thats fitting for the place, but........

I like dancing. And don't tell me, delta NFs, that you don't either. I'll at least get the ENFps to dance with me.

I'm down!

[The Greeter]

I like dancing. I also happen to like and am quite adept at sports. In my early youth I used to be on the basketball, badminton, track and rugby (non-contact) team and took martial arts. These days I play tennis mostly, sometimes badminton or soccer, whichever.

I never really got the XII's/INXjs are supposed to be bad at or not enjoy physical activities.

Also, I like anime though I am very passive about it.

[Serious Name]

About that nightlife, dancing, mixing of cultures thing.

I recently found a bar that is the most delta place ever. I occasionally write messages from it. The bartender/owner is an ISTp of about 50 years. He's combat sport hobbyist and his other job is doing physiotherapy. There's no dance floor. The tables are surrounded by comfy chairs and sofas where possible. There's a substantial number of magazines and board games and free internet access available in the front room. The place carries an abnormally large selection of beers, ciders, whiskeys and varieties of absinth. There's a free jukebox that carries local bands and music from the 30's to 80's. Nothing from the past 20 years but pretty much just quality music. The bartender doesn't serve anyone who is loud, drunk, wears very weird clothing or seems generally weird, he points them out. The place opens up when then owner wants and closes when the owner wants, no open hours are given anywhere. This is the front room.

The back room ... I haven't been to the back room because only people who have been around for years get to the back room. But I do know that the group there knows each other from years back and spend time watching tv and having snacks and apparently laughing quite a lot.

Anyone who dances gets thrown out. And what mixing of cultures is present goes under the title "hospitality". There's plenty of that. People talk to each other quite a lot and about quite varying subjects. The atmosphere is friendly, but reserved. I once mentioned that I liked a particular 80's tv show. Someone overheard it and a week later they came to talk to me and mentioned that they had tracked down some guy who worked for a company that was distributing it and could get me cheap dvds, as an example. The bar also serves the best hot chocolate in town. Famous for it. That bar is as close to deltaland as a place can be.

Generally sounds like some place I'd like to hang out in, but the backroom and clothing thing bother me. Not enough to not go, but it just seems kinda stuck up.

Kinda reminds me of something my SLE(?) friend said today.
Him: "Sometimes I walk down the street, see a guy, and just feel like...I dunno, punching him."
Me: "Why?"
Him: "He just looks like a douche. You know, just the way he carries himself and shit."
Me: (silence)
Him: "And sometimes they just look like pussies. Like they walk around all 'ooh, dont hurt me' and theyre afraid to do shit"
Me: Hmm...yeah, I've seen what you're talking about, but I just wouldn't talk to the dude
Him: Well I wouldn't actually HIT them for no reason, but...like...if I could get away with it, I might...I dunno man, they just look like complete assholes. Like they think they're too good.
Me: (laugh) 'You look like someone I would hate...I'm going to punch you in the face'
Him: (lolz)

[Smilingeyes]

Generally sounds like some place I'd like to hang out in, but the backroom and clothing thing bother me. Not enough to not go, but it just seems kinda stuck up.

Kinda reminds me of something my SLE(?) friend said today.
Him: "Sometimes I walk down the street, see a guy, and just feel like...I dunno, punching him."
Me: "Why?"
Him: "He just looks like a douche. You know, just the way he carries himself and shit."
Me: (silence)
Him: "And sometimes they just look like pussies. Like they walk around all 'ooh, dont hurt me' and theyre afraid to do shit"
Me: Hmm...yeah, I've seen what you're talking about, but I just wouldn't talk to the dude
Him: Well I wouldn't actually HIT them for no reason, but...like...if I could get away with it, I might...I dunno man, they just look like complete assholes. Like they think they're too good.
Me: (laugh) 'You look like someone I would hate...I'm going to punch you in the face'
Him: (lolz)

I don't really KNOW it's the clothing to be honest. I don't know why he points some people out. He says it's because he "knows" they're going to start making trouble. But how does he "know" that? What cues he uses? I don't know. But there are times when someone just comes in and is immediately told that he/she won't be served in that place.

Also, I personally don't have anything against dancing. I've done quite a bit of dancing myself. But I do think that there's a time and a place for it. And if someone I didn't know suddenly came into my personal space and started to shake around I'd be irritated.

[Simon Ssmall]

hmm I dunno if that bar sounds delta or not.

I personally prefer feeling somewhat anonymous when I go to restaurants, coffee shops or bars. I feel kind of uncomfortable knowing the staff places and prefer if they don't try to remember me or my order.

But I might not be getting a clear picture of that bar. It sounds kind of what you'd find in a small town where everyone knows each other and that's prob the part I don't like.

And I think Deltas are very welcoming of others so long as you are respectful and nice to people. If anything the rules are more "clear cut" w/ Deltas -- i.e. you fight, you get kicked out. I suspect w/ Betas it would be more like "you fight the wrong person, you get kicked out...you fight the right person, we might like you more." I could be wrong though.

Heh, its somewhat different for me. In most places I don't care about knowing the staff or whatnot but in places I like to hang out I pretty much do. Simply it gives me privileges and adds a nice touch.

There are like three places like this for me. One is a small shop near the place I used to live. Its very small and only the basic goods are there but I would visit there quite often and a lot of times would go with my brother to buy some beers and snacks. I would know very well the shopkeeper and she would always point out what meat not to buy, what food is freshest and what is tasty. We would always be polite with her and nice. More than once she would sell us something although it would be past the normal working hours and she would be still cleaning the place. In cases we would not have cash she would "sell" us goods without money, we would bring the cash later on.

Another is a sushi bar near my current living place. They always know what I like to order and are very nice to me since I visit often and as usual am very polite. Lately I started calling them by names and they appreciate that and since then they started addressing me by name also (well that was the point for me, I like them). I'm not a very demanding person and usually nice so when they screw up something unintentionally and I don't make a fuss about it, they remember it and try extra hard next time. It works till 22:00, but more than once they would serve me at like 22:30 although they would not let in other customers.

Another place is a sort of a nightclub, I go there to listen to some jazz on Mondays. It is hard to get a reservation there but maybe they already remember me cos I get it every time and they don't even ask for my phone number which they used to do. Nor they ask me for entrance fee, although there is one.

[Park]

Another place is a sort of a nightclub, I go there to listen to some jazz on Mondays. It is hard to get a reservation there but maybe they already remember me cos I get it every time and they don't even ask for my phone number which they used to do. Nor they ask me for entrance fee, although there is one.

Jazz clubs are nice, except for the smoke which I can't stand lol. Are there live gigs at that place or just a DJ?

[Simon Ssmall]

Live gigs. Usually it starts of with a predefined program (like certain band which prepares for the night) and later on when its getting late they start the jam session and just improvise. And in the second part usually it is the same people who do that every week, I actually like this part more than the first one even if the first part has a defined style and format to it.

And there is no smoke here, cos it is forbidden by law to smoke in bars/restaurants and other areas like that so I'm not bothered by it .

[Smilingeyes]

Heh, its somewhat different for me. In most places I don't care about knowing the staff or whatnot but in places I like to hang out I pretty much do. Simply it gives me privileges and adds a nice touch.

There are like three places like this for me. One is a small shop near the place I used to live. Its very small and only the basic goods are there but I would visit there quite often and a lot of times would go with my brother to buy some beers and snacks. I would know very well the shopkeeper and she would always point out what meat not to buy, what food is freshest and what is tasty. We would always be polite with her and nice. More than once she would sell us something although it would be past the normal working hours and she would be still cleaning the place. In cases we would not have cash she would "sell" us goods without money, we would bring the cash later on.

Another is a sushi bar near my current living place. They always know what I like to order and are very nice to me since I visit often and as usual am very polite. Lately I started calling them by names and they appreciate that and since then they started addressing me by name also (well that was the point for me, I like them). I'm not a very demanding person and usually nice so when they screw up something unintentionally and I don't make a fuss about it, they remember it and try extra hard next time. It works till 22:00, but more than once they would serve me at like 22:30 although they would not let in other customers.

Another place is a sort of a nightclub, I go there to listen to some jazz on Mondays. It is hard to get a reservation there but maybe they already remember me cos I get it every time and they don't even ask for my phone number which they used to do. Nor they ask me for entrance fee, although there is one.

Exactly! By Iove, you've got it.
That's the way to do it.

[Park]

Awesome.

[Linalee]

Home is the one place in all this world where hearts are sure of each other. It is the place of confidence. It is the place where we tear off that mask of guarded and suspicious coldness which the world forces us to wear in self-defense, and where we pour out the unreserved communications of full and confiding hearts. It is the spot where expressions of tenderness gush out without any sensation of awkwardness and without any dread of ridicule. ~Frederick W. Robertson

Yep.

*Superfluous Headbutt*

It has nothing to do with the topic but... my ILI friend says it would make a great anti tabac campaign. Makes you cough.

[UDP]

I like dancing. I also happen to like and am quite adept at sports. In my early youth I used to be on the basketball, badminton, track and rugby (non-contact) team and took martial arts. These days I play tennis mostly, sometimes badminton or soccer, whichever.

I never really got the XII's/INXjs are supposed to be bad at or not enjoy physical activities.

Also, I like anime though I am very passive about it.

It has to do with common faults that can easily develop along functional lines, but, are not necessarily indicative of things. It's an easy stereotype to make or fall into. [eta: Actually, going over this post again, I said someone (perhaps MJ himself), couldn't be INFp because they danced so well. ]

Some ENFps are very sexy, skilled dancers - I know more than one. INFps, too - look at Michael Jackson.


and YEAH FOR DANCING.
I just danced quite a bit tonight

[Lobo]

Look. It's an ISTp place. Who the hell thinks it should be inviting? The guy keeps the place because he likes beer and likes to have his friends over. About half the customers know the owner so well they just walk behind the bar and serve themselves if they feel like it. Delta is the most closed, least inviting quadra. If you're in, you're the best, if you're out, stay out.

I can see how that's true, but it would probably apply more to Delta STs, though I did have a phase where I would think like that. However, I wouldn't necessarily say that people are "not invited in," rather, that it takes time to get to know the other person, have familiarity, etc, in order to have enough of a connection to be considered friends or people you are happy to see again.

Btw, the closedness towards other people happens between Deltas as well, so it's not like being Delta alone automatically gets you inside those small circles.

[The Greeter]

I can see how that's true, but it would probably apply more to Delta STs, though I did have a phase where I would think like that. However, I wouldn't necessarily say that people are "not invited in," rather, that it takes time to get to know the other person, have familiarity, etc, in order to have enough of a connection to be considered friends or people you are happy to see again.

Btw, the closedness towards other people happens between Deltas as well, so it's not like being Delta alone automatically gets you inside those small circles.

Actually, some have said that I'm "picky" with people, which kind of surprised me. I've always thought I had a diverse set of friends but I suppose I am picky with the ones who I choose to be close to albeit even in this subset I find that everyone is quite unique. Though honestly, I don't know if I agree with Delta being the least inviting quadra; this just doesn't strike true to my own outlook in life. But perhaps I'm confusing 'accepting' with 'inviting'.

It has to do with common faults that can easily develop along functional lines, but, are not necessarily indicative of things. It's an easy stereotype to make or fall into. [eta: Actually, going over this post again, I said someone (perhaps MJ himself), couldn't be INFp because they danced so well. ]

Some ENFps are very sexy, skilled dancers - I know more than one. INFps, too - look at Michael Jackson.

I see this. I won't deny that in many cases I am clumsy and have been criticized before for having an 'awkward' style which I later corrected with respect to sports. You provided good examples though.

[Linandara]

I think somewhat similar topic was when there was a discussion about governments and quadras. Delta seemed to favor sort of "tribal communities" or small town autonomous governments (in case word "tribal" makes you go nuts) which applies local rules/regulations for local needs.

For me that will be something like the land of small independent settlements among beautiful and not very dangerous wild nature where people are free to choose to which "village" they are going to belong. Like happy little colonies on other planets with wise, peaceful and independent-minded inhabitants who use all past human experiance and modern technology to live in harmony with their enviroment. As for entertainment, I think, live music by the campfire (or a fireplace) is best for me

[Serious Name]

For me that will be something like the land of small independent settlements among beautiful and not very dangerous wild nature where people are free to choose to which "village" they are going to belong. Like happy little colonies on other planets with wise, peaceful and independent-minded inhabitants who use all past human experiance and modern technology to live in harmony with their enviroment. As for entertainment, I think, live music by the campfire (or a fireplace) is best for me

No joke, I actually thought of a society similar to that. I figure people are too different for there to be one huge authority for all, so breaking it up makes sense. People would be free to move from colony to colony until they find one that is in-line with their values.

[Creepy-male]

Wasn't the "completely decantralized" type supposed to be Alpha? o:

[Linandara]

Wasn't the "completely decantralized" type supposed to be Alpha? o:

Well, its not complete anarchy, its rather some sort of post-industrial society, very individualistic and without bureucracy. Its the end of historical cycle where Alpha is the beguinning of a new one, I think.

[Simon Ssmall]

Wasn't the "completely decantralized" type supposed to be Alpha? o:

I think there is not much emphasis on decentralisation. More emphasis on adaptation to local needs.

[Froody Blue Gem]

A nice cozy place, a combo of a bookshop/garden/fantasy like forest, all rolled into one with colorful little rabbits, elves, and little fluffballs all around. Cats everywhere and you can't go anywhere without seeing a cat. A saltwater warm lake to swim in. Ambient elevator music playing from the sky randomly and the sky slowly changing relaxing hues of colors.

There would be flavored tea leaves growing on the trees, and little pastry flowers. And the little pastry flowers would sing. It would be a very safe place, with a benevolent spirit guarding it, and everyone getting along in harmony, and a sense of group/community. It would be a society with a sort of structure within this land, but keeping up the general atmosphere. Though admittedly, if there was anyone outside of the community who were not part of the land and we looked over the border to see the others, an "us" and "them" mentality would be caused by this phenomena.

[Beautiful sky]

Delta land for me is being out with a friend or a loved one and just sitting at a cozy small hole in the wall ice cream shop outside and sharing some many scoops of ice cream on a plate. Peaceful and connected. The moment is the glory

[thegreenfaerie]

I love this and can relate. I wrote a poem about my sister and I being children in a similar magical place. I also wrote a short love story in a similar sort or magical place as well A lot of my favorite art takes place in such magical places.

A nice cozy place, a combo of a bookshop/garden/fantasy like forest, all rolled into one with colorful little rabbits, elves, and little fluffballs all around. Cats everywhere and you can't go anywhere without seeing a cat. A saltwater warm lake to swim in. Ambient elevator music playing from the sky randomly and the sky slowly changing relaxing hues of colors.

There would be flavored tea leaves growing on the trees, and little pastry flowers. And the little pastry flowers would sing. It would be a very safe place, with a benevolent spirit guarding it, and everyone getting along in harmony, and a sense of group/community. It would be a society with a sort of structure within this land, but keeping up the general atmosphere. Though admittedly, if there was anyone outside of the community who were not part of the land and we looked over the border to see the others, an "us" and "them" mentality would be caused by this phenomena.

[Froody Blue Gem]

I love this and can relate. I wrote a poem about my sister and I being children in a similar magical place. I also wrote a short love story in a similar sort or magical place as well A lot of my favorite art takes place in such magical places.

Thank you, I imagine it would be an ideal/mystical place. Maybe not matching my image to a T but something of that ilk. xD Whimsical but with some sort of structure to some aspects of it for the ST aspects of delta + the si and te that EIIs and IEEs have that is all too real. But it wouldn't be quite the place for people who are not of the Delta mindset. The lovestory sounds pretty neat in a Delta-ish setting. What is the story about?

[thegreenfaerie]

"Whimsical" feels like it describes my aesthetics very well. It's one of my favorite words.

I have thought about an ideal home, and I had decided it would have a very serene and peaceful, with flowing water, living room in a Japanese style.

A "bohemian" room filled with pillows and a place to chill and hang out with people on the floor, lol.

A nautical themed room.

I've always wanted a green orb lamp too, I don't know why, but I will find it

I think it would be cool if you implemented some sort of fun points to your land too. Maybe a theme park or something (a whimsical themed one).

[para]

i like sliping