Aggressor ISxj females and victim ENxj males (ESI-LIE and LSI-EIE)

[07490]

you know... agressor is supose to be the male, the female were suspose to be the victim. ENXj male are Extrovert, They are Te/Fe dominant, Fe/Te ROLE trying to do both at once. they are more engaged in the exterior world. what I think is interesting is that they also have Se hidden agenda, which complicates things worse. On the other hand, ISXj female are introvert but they easily deal with things implusively which leaves no doubting. I think that is refreshing. If you are an EnXj male or IsXj female, please comment on what makes this couple ticks.

[unefille]

ISXj female are introvert but they easily deal with things implusively which leaves no doubting. I think that is refreshing

What do you mean? Being female alone isn't really enough to make an unimpulsive LSI 'impulsive'.

[07490]

What do you mean? Being female along isn't really enough to make an unimpulsive LSI 'impulsive'.

Hello Unefille, well the "female" part of the ISXj has nothing to do with implusive. I should have said the overall Se creative.

[FDG]

I still think that the EJ carries the initiative in this couple.

[07490]

I still think that the EJ carries the initiative in this couple.

Tell me about your experiences with ISFj :-)

[FDG]

Tell me about your experiences with ISFj :-)

Well, usually they don't really seem to be very apt at taking the initiative in pratical terms, i.e. asking for going out etc. but they do tend to render their attraction towards me sufficiently noticeable for me to act without being completely blindfolded as far as what the reaction will be. As far as who has the initiates things in the relationship, they like to initiate in reminding me to clean stuff, do bureucratic paperwork, etc. etc. also sometimes when I over-extend myself a bit, they can be better at sticking with just one thing without complaining about it.

I understand though, that in the end I am both extraverted and thinking type, so it's perfectly normal that I will be the more initiative-taking (and I actually like it that way) in the pair. Also, I'm not very strongly Ni; probably a very Ni ENTj would have a different perception of this relationships (and indeed, the ISFj-Se girls I've known were very initiative taking sometimes, a bit too much for my taste).

[MasterfulMischief]

My experience is that isfj displays initiative first in the sense that they will find whatever reason to make sure they are around the entj, but then it's kind of on you to make the rest happen (although the isfj will show great initiative once the relationship is established).

[idolatrie]

My experience is that isfj displays initiative first in the sense that they will find whatever reason to make sure they are around the entj, but then it's kind of on you to make the rest happen (although the isfj will show great initiative once the relationship is established).

Mmm, I think this may be similar with LSIs - they'll create the circumstances or the space for the EIE to take the initiative and define the relationship rather than doing it themselves. So that would be being around the EIE, differentiating in the way they treat them, without overstepping the mark of plausible deniability of interest, and then waiting for the EIE to make some kind of overt action to indicate that the relationship was going to become a romantic one.

[MasterfulMischief]

Mmm, I think this may be similar with LSIs - they'll create the circumstances or the space for the EIE to take the initiative and define the relationship rather than doing it themselves. So that would be being around the EIE, differentiating in the way they treat them, without overstepping the mark of plausible deniability of interest, and then waiting for the EIE to make some kind of overt action to indicate that the relationship was going to become a romantic one.

That's an excellent way to put it (plausible deniability of interest). The IS*j technically makes the first move (approaching/putting themselves in proximity) but its the EN*j that has to break the plausible deniability barrier first.

[Brilliand]

That's an excellent way to put it (plausible deniability of interest). The IS*j technically makes the first move (approaching/putting themselves in proximity) but its the EN*j that has to break the plausible deniability barrier first.

Actually I think this applies to me as well...

Maybe we can generalize it to all IJs?

[calenwen]

My experience is that isfj displays initiative first in the sense that they will find whatever reason to make sure they are around the entj, but then it's kind of on you to make the rest happen (although the isfj will show great initiative once the relationship is established).

Although I've never had a relationship with an EN*j, this is how I've approached relationships with different partners in the past. Although with my current ILI boyfriend, I actually had to kind of spell it out for him, haha. In my current relationship and in past relationships, I seem to have always been the more opinionated one and definitely the one to show the greater initiative overall.

[MasterfulMischief]

Actually I think this applies to me as well...

Maybe we can generalize it to all IJs?

Maybe. I'd be interested in figuring out exactly what causes this specific set of behaviour and whether it's common to other dual types, other aggressor-victim (female-male) duals etc. I would also like to know if the sexes are reversed what would happen etc.

I guess I always assumed it was a subtle manifestion of Se meant for my Ni to pick up, a way for a female aggressor to take initiative without appearing to take initiative and therefore conform to stereotypical gender roles. But this was really the first place I went and is not conclusive at all.

Calenwen:So you pointed it out to your boyfriend only after you realized he wasn't really picking up your initial approach? That seems to contradict the idea of this always happening in aggro-victim pairings. I find it interesting that your ramped up approach is probably closer to what a SEE might initially do, and this is what your boyfriend responded to. So maybe my initial observations are only applicable to introverted female aggressors and extroverted male victims. Hmmmmm

[07490]

I guess I always assumed it was a subtle manifestion of Se meant for my Ni to pick up, a way for a female aggressor to take initiative without appearing to take initiative and therefore conform to stereotypical gender roles. But this was really the first place I went and is not conclusive at all.

YES and YES. the subtle manisfestion of SE are perfect companion for my NI to pick up too.

[calenwen]

Calenwen:So you pointed it out to your boyfriend only after you realized he wasn't really picking up your initial approach? That seems to contradict the idea of this always happening in aggro-victim pairings. I find it interesting that your ramped up approach is probably closer to what a SEE might initially do, and this is what your boyfriend responded to. So maybe my initial observations are only applicable to introverted female aggressors and extroverted male victims. Hmmmmm

Yeah, I mean, I could tell that he liked me and everything and I was tired of waiting for him to take the initiative. (I am extremely impatient and I've never had any qualms with telling people what's up.) I never even thought to compare my approach to the typical SEE approach, haha, but it's a good observation.