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    Darn Socks DirectorAbbie's Avatar
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    Arrow Processing Information

    I like lists. I made one of how different functions handle info. Please analyze and correct it. I'm very sure I got the Ts and the Si right.

    : Memorizing Facts
    : Refiguring Facts
    : Refiguring Emotions
    : Memorizing Emotions
    : Memorizing the Future
    : Refiguring the Future
    : Memorizing the Past
    : Refiguring the Past

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    I want to take Director Abbie out on a date. What should I bring?
    -
    It's Binky bitch.
    See not the unsmiling lips and icy eyes,
    And hear not the silence after.
    Look instead as the mime hypnotizes
    And listen to the laughter
    .

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    Those aren't functions. They are informational metabolism elements (IME's) and this is how they process information:

    Se: external statics of objects
    Te: external dynamics of objects
    Ti: external statics of fields
    Si: external dynamics of fields
    Ne: internal statics of objects
    Fe: internal dynamics of objects
    Fi: internal statics of fields
    Ni: internal dynamics of fields


    Also I disagree with everything on your list.

    Not trying to be a bast.... but you're wrong =)
    The end is nigh

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    <something> Wynch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Those aren't functions. They are informational metabolism elements (IME's) and this is how they process information:

    Se: external statics of objects
    Te: external dynamics of objects
    Ti: external statics of fields
    Si: external dynamics of fields
    Ne: internal statics of objects
    Fe: internal dynamics of objects
    Fi: internal statics of fields
    Ni: internal dynamics of fields


    Also I disagree with everything on your list.

    Not trying to be a bast.... but you're wrong =)
    This pretty much summarizes my feelings on the matter.
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    Darn Socks DirectorAbbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Also I disagree with everything on your list.

    Not trying to be a bast.... but you're wrong =)
    Phoey...your explanations are complexly worded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    <something> Wynch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Phoey...your explanations are complexly worded.
    Rick's page on information elements is definitely one of the best I've read.

    But in summary:

    External/Internal - A subtle difference really. Kind of hard to pinpoint precisely, but External deals with the more concrete while Internal deals with the more abstract.

    Dynamic/Static - Implies a sense of motion. Dynamic is fluid, deals with things as if they are constantly changing and interacting, think of things rolling outwards. Static deals with things in instants or snap shots, rather than rolling outwards it builds in singular pieces.

    Object/Field - An objective/subjective dichotomy. Object is more observational while Field is more judgmental (not to mistaken with judging and perceiving). Object classifies information by seeing what is going on, Field classifies information by deciding what is going on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    Rick's page on information elements is definitely one of the best I've read.

    But in summary:

    External/Internal - A subtle difference really. Kind of hard to pinpoint precisely, but External deals with the more concrete while Internal deals with the more abstract.

    Dynamic/Static - Implies a sense of motion. Dynamic is fluid, deals with things as if they are constantly changing and interacting, think of things rolling outwards. Static deals with things in instants or snap shots, rather than rolling outwards it builds in singular pieces.

    Object/Field - An objective/subjective dichotomy. Object is more observational while Field is more judgmental (not to mistaken with judging and perceiving). Object classifies information by seeing what is going on, Field classifies information by deciding what is going on.
    So far, this is the only intelligible description of these dichotomies that I've seen. Most seem to use very vague language, making it difficult to apply them to real life. Assuming that what you've written here is accurate, thank you. It should better help me understand the elements.

    Jason

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    I like lists. I made one of how different functions handle info. Please analyze and correct it. I'm very sure I got the Ts and the Si right.

    : Memorizing Facts
    : Refiguring Facts
    : Refiguring Emotions
    : Memorizing Emotions
    : Memorizing the Future
    : Refiguring the Future
    : Memorizing the Past
    : Refiguring the Past
    I don't understand the meaning of and . Can you explain them to me?
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    Sensing isn't about the past... it's usually described as being about the present, although that isn't exactly it either.



    LII-Ne

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    Using the term "sensing" is only going to cause further confusion because percieving Se is miles apart from percieving Si.

    Totally different mechanisms, it boggles me why people cling to the 4 jungian dichotomies.
    The end is nigh

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    Angel of Lightning Brilliand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Using the term "sensing" is only going to cause further confusion because percieving Se is miles apart from percieving Si.

    Totally different mechanisms, it boggles me why people cling to the 4 jungian dichotomies.
    Nonsense. Sensing is everything that is external and perceiving; if both external and perceiving are meaningful dichotomies, then external-perceiving (or Sensing) is a meaningful group.

    I favor the Smilexian approach, which uses every Reinin dichotomy plus a few more... what approach are you using? The Ashtonian?



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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    Im using my own system in which Im cherry picking things I like and discarding that which I don't =)

    I have discarded perceiving and judging as meaningful dichotomies.

    All information elements are experienced by perception and you can make judgements about the information with all of them afterwards.

    I correlate closest with "ashtonian" but I wouldn't say I'm "ashtonian"
    The end is nigh

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    it boggles me why people cling to the 4 jungian dichotomies.
    Although dichotomies might be seen as incomplete/clumsy etc for use in theory, they are effective in practice. It just depends what you want out of socionics.

    BTW I agree that the opening post doesn't make sense.

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    Ni connects and synthesizes ideas. It's not all about refiguring the future. I'm sorry but that's a very rough/crude way of looking at things. It's like... you're telling one small fact about what Ni does, but that's a really poor way of describing what it does 'in a nutshell.' Internal dynamics of fields is just, more accurate and 'whole.'

    That's why Ni (introverted intuition) is about, writing, about internal worlds in one's own head; about connecting ideas, see how ideas play out in a certain atmosphere. We infps want our wishes to come true, or we want our fantasies ripped apart from us cruelly to learn an ethical lesson - both have to ignore Te in order to do so. (as Ironically enough, Te can both give us what we want and never give us what we want)- and we don't want things to be that matter-of-factly, detailed-base or simple.

    I would say Se is much more about willpower, motivation than 'external stasis of objects' I agree less with Se than the Ni version. I would say Se as a *psychological* function (people act as if Se is somehow sort of some purely tangible process but that isn't true, they're all psychological and all more internal, just some are more 'integrated' and 'Less Pure' than others) Se is more about pure raw willpower about 'Okay, I want to do THAT and then THIS and ahhh.' Ni and Se need each other to me for those reasons. Ni gets lost in too many ideas, too many connections and pathways- it needs to PICK A PATH. Se gives it the willpower to do that, but without Ni- Se is impulsive with no true meaning. It has to have the relationships 'mean something' with the high idealsm of Ni.

    infps already know the right thing to do in situations, already are so keenly aware of the intelligent and ethical course of action is. That's not the problem. We just need to WANT something badly enough. We just want to want it, to want to get it done, to feel the thrill and zest of life that our high ideals mind interconnects effortlessly.

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    Se perceives actual, tangible, physical variables in things.

    So when an Se-er wants change they desire to make things actually physical different.

    So intimidation or forcible possesion of "territory" are things that they can perceive and understand best.

    Thats why Se's are often "aggressive."
    The end is nigh

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    Jarno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Se perceives actual, tangible, physical variables in things.

    So when an Se-er wants change they desire to make things actually physical different.

    So intimidation or forcible possesion of "territory" are things that they can perceive and understand best.

    Thats why Se's are often "aggressive."
    Interesting, maybe someone would need to write how the IM's differ in the aspect of changing things, instead of just perceiving.

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